America: time to panic?
polycounter lvl 18
I caught most of the Presidential Address to the Nation on the Financial Crisis.
I have to admit. Bush's demeanor didn't comfort me. He looks more afraid than anyone. And hearing new phrases like "economic catastrophe" from the media soon after didn't help.
I found it odd that he answered the question "how did we get to this point?". And also, not once during the speech, was anything war related mentioned. Kinda surprising coming from him. Is it all just more BS from the cause?
Will this affect the game industry in the US? Or has it already started? Will start-ups and smaller studios have a rough time surviving...more than usual?
I have to admit. Bush's demeanor didn't comfort me. He looks more afraid than anyone. And hearing new phrases like "economic catastrophe" from the media soon after didn't help.
I found it odd that he answered the question "how did we get to this point?". And also, not once during the speech, was anything war related mentioned. Kinda surprising coming from him. Is it all just more BS from the cause?
Will this affect the game industry in the US? Or has it already started? Will start-ups and smaller studios have a rough time surviving...more than usual?
Replies
As to the economy and video games... it actually may not hurt us. Video games are grouped in with other vice industries (movies, tobacco, drinking, etc...), and vice industries tend to be unaffected (or positively affected) by bad economies apparently. A good example I heard of it was movies during the depression in the 30's actually doing very well. People were having hard times, and the lure of escaping from that by watching a movie was strong, so the industry thrived. I've heard some analysts predict games may have a similar experience now.
(I think it was called vice industries atleast, I forget if that's the actual term used. I read a bunch of articles on it a while back, so I'm just going by what I remember.)
Calm it down.
Actually that would be one of the best things to do
As is Xenobond. My father keeps telling me that the game industry, in terms of sales and layoffs, has been unaffected by the economic downturn.
So no. Certainly not time to panic. Time to plan a bit better, but not panic. Once all this is over and things are better then you can panic, since you'll have spare time.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iBAo1yCOOLr02NJfYtgrYmyZQKxAD93DF2T02
Some links, no video up yet that I can find.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioHc80xKMiATnqCpK0cDKJzk_nPQD93DEQ7G0
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE48O0FP20080925
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/25/business/economy/25bush.html?ref=us
It concerns me to here from the President, that if we don't listen to his plan, we're in trouble. Hasn't gone well before.
Yes yes, everything shall pass, right? I mean, we are but blips and time marches on. But sometimes, people's houses foreclose and their lives are turned into shit because of some bad investments.
I'm sure they'd love to hear this is just media hype. Also please tell that to the dickheads on Wall Street so they can stop sending stocks on a rollercoaster.
The game industry is fine. But you'll see struggling companies continue to struggle if they aren't solvent (such as Sumner Redstone borrowing money for Midway from... Sumner Redstone). And there have been game industry layoffs though since our projects are long-term I think we are somewhat more immune to economic layoffs on a whim. There are no really safe investments right now (except maybe gold), not even real estate- but real estate is so cheap it is probably worth it.
There are millions of people who are affected by the economy in a very negative; please don't play down their grief or problems by attributing this to media hype or some existential 'this will pass' nonsense.
Video link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26871338/?GT1=43001 video on that page
Bush isn't all to blame, but his war hasn't helped any. For the most part its our fault the people of America. We drive our cars (from other country's) using gas (from other country's) and buying goods (from other country's) while producing less goods that other country's want. Its only now again becoming cool to be smart after 40? years of it being uncool to pay attention in school. Add on top of that a school system that is beaten by some 3rd world nations.
So yeah this has been slowly building up for years, the internet gave us a nice patch in the 90's but now were not even the biggest player in that any more. Id say it will be a few years before it really starts getting better.
Buy buy buy buy buy!!!!
jokes
things are bad right now!
yeah man, something about this seems fishy, especially so close to the election.
So, no worries man, this ain't nothing in the grand scheme.
A lot of it will likely hinge on the next president, yes. To cover the cost of our war & now these fiscal bailout debts ($3000 per person on the mortgage crisis right now, including children), taxes MUST be raised. One candidate wants to raise taxes while the other doesn't. The one that doesn't, hasn't got a plan on how to recoup the costs, either. We also need to end this war. It's bleeding us dry and we're printing more money to cover the costs. Gold is higher than ever and the dollar is falling. Hell, our dollar is only worth .67 euros. Sad, truly.
Another problem is public panic, due to media hype. They say recession, economic collapse, $5 gasoline and people go ape shit. Then they transfer their 401k's into IRA's, bonds or CD's, and the market plunges. I lost more than 10k over the last month, out of my retirement account. But all I'm doing is readjusting my investments for a shorter duration return. Pulling my money out of stock entirely leaves a money pit in it's wake. Since nobody else invests, it fills with doubt and the whole cycle continues.
I've taken this chance to buy in on some stocks that I'm betting will do well in the future.
You flippin scare me. "Sacrificing soldiers for good"? Holy hell man, pull your head outa your ass and maybe you'll see through the republican propaganda.
If spending trillions and trillions of dollars doesn't hurt an economy I dunno what does.
Michael Moore for Prez.
Partially, yes. It *IS* a self fulfilling prophecy in certain respects, but the root cause seems to have been bad/greedy investments around subprime mortgages - lending money to people who couldn't afford to pay it back.
There is no such thing as recession proof, but it *SEEMS* that as already stated videogames are part of the so called Vice Industry, and may fare better that others at this time.
wonder what'll happen this time =p
'during good and prosperous times the gains are privatized and when there is a great loss it gets socialized' (which means the state, you, will be paying)
Personally I don't see things in the US getting better within the next 5 years but it may depend on the next President. But most important is not to panic, to think about what you spend money on and how you can save money (and not overrun your credit if not needed) and if possible invest in some companies to get the economy back on it's feets.
You scare me, man. You're the American stereotype, the reason people think all americans are stupid.
protect you? Do you remember the years and events leading up to 9/11 at all? They didn't just randomly throw a dart at a map and decided "Myes, these American, they must go". Now you've gotten into something that went south ('in and out' didn't exactly go to plan), you're pumping more money into the war than you could recover, and people are dying. For 'good'? I would happen to disagree with that.
Then again, doesn't your nickname basically come down to 'nothing you did personally got you out of the shit you're in, only that bit where you sat down on your knees and praid did', which is probably one of the more reality-defying concepts in the Bible?
And that's not meant to be a personal attack as such, it's just something that seems very telling to me.
Brittians sloppy seconds...
Obama needs to be elected just for america to save face.
But either way, its been time to panic for a long long time. So no use worrying now.
Watch Jordan Maxwell!
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=jordan+maxwell&emb=0&aq=f#
Again, people's houses foreclose (the majority) because they 'did' get into bad investments, an ARM loan wtf why would you do that? Because they want to live a 'lifestyle' they can't afford. Many of the people in foreclosure simply purchased homes they realistically couldn't afford to live in to begin with. Yes, the economy is bad but when purchasing anything as big as a house you need to understand how you'll pay for it if something happens, for example my wife and I purchased our last two brand new houses where if one of us was laid off we could still pay the note also at a fixed rate. We could 'afford' a nicer house but didn't feel comfortable rolling the dice like the rest of America, my mother makes like 50% less then I do and they purchased a house almost 80k more then mine, so I know they are in the same boat as the majority of folks in the housing mess.
And like was previously mentioned people trying to be greedy and grabbing up several properties hoping to turn a quick buck and instead realizing they just got f**ked.
I also echo the above, in that everything Ephesians 2:8-9 posts on this board scares me.
I recommend every American here read this book.(especially you Eph,its been quite a long time since i have read something so miseducated/ignorant and scary)
Author is a self described conservative,ex military and history professor. Im a left leaning person and i found the authors conclusions well thought out and overall its a brilliant book.
This is the author on Bill Moyers
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/profile.html
P.S before anyone tries to attack me if they read my location tag,it may say Denmark but i am American.
WE CAN STILL REACH YOU! :snarl:
Also, the war cost like, what, 600 billion? Sure would be nice to have that right now. How has the war made us safer? They had no WMD's. And even if they had, do they have the capability to launch them across the globe? All the war has done is allow Bush to lay down the groundwork for future generations of oil wheeling-and-dealing, and put laws into effect that limit your civil liberties.
what the fuck! o_O
the war protected you? from what or who? it did good? where?
As far as keeping us safe - have we been attacked since 9/11? Nope. All the attempted plots have been stopped. I'd say that's safer.
The WMD thing was a big debacle for the pres, but I honestly don't think the intel was bad. They had WMD's, no doubt about it. They were simply moved before the Americans got there. They had the factories and labs for the weaponology, so I really don't think they went unused. The threat of WMD's from Iraq was not that they could launch them at us or our allies directly. It was whether they would sell one to Al Qaeda or Bin Laden, to sneak it into the country. Shit, it's not hard. Thousands of shipping containers go unchecked each day.
The patriot act has a lot of bs totalitarian powers within it to be sure. At the same time, it's also the source of our protection. It's led to quite a few of these terrorist plots being quelled. I'm not saying it's a good thing though. You need to balance civil liberties and protection, no doubt about it. I think the P.A is too powerful imo, but you can't ignore it's accomplishments.
If the dems take the election, the P.A will undoubtably get overturned. Perhaps then you left wing harpies will finally shut up
Are you kidding me,you honostly believe this?
For starters to have a WMD stockpiles to actually pose a threat to someone you needs TONS of it. You need warehouses to store these WMD's. You need a massive infratructure/factories to be able to produce tons of these materials to make WMD's,factories,production centers and modes of transport. Not to mention WMD's which are not nuclear have shelve lives,typically 2 years.
So how how was Iraq able to produce WMD's or let alone produce enough to be a threat if?
1. In the first gulf war the U.S bombed the hell out of these factories and other forms of infratructure needed to produce enough conventional WMD's to pose a threat.
2. How exactly would Iraq be able to have/hide factories big enough to produce tons of Wmds if after the first Gulf war the U.S controlled the Airspace to the north and south of Iraq.
3. How would Iraq be able to get the tons of raw materials,production and factory equipment to make all these weapons if the Iraq had U.N sancations imposed on them,and before you jump on the UN part,U.S run UN sanctions on Iraq towards any sort of material or equipment that had dual use. Dual use meaning if a centrifuge could be used to make weapons,the ordered was denied.
4. How would iraq be able to hide or let alone move TONS of WMD when again the U.S controlled Airspace in Iraq,could bomb at will any target in Iraq prior to the second gulf war, evade surveillence or even keeping 100% of the people hushed in such a project of a massive scale?
If Iraq had any WMD that survived the intense U.S bombing in Gulf War 1 and agressive U.N inspection they would be rendered useless due to their shelf life. And to rebuild the massive amount of infrastructure to make TONS of WMD you need to actually be a threat would have been impossible to do under the radar.
And give one to Bin Ladin or Al Qaieda,why would Saddam a secular leader give this power away to religous fundamentalists he considered a threat to his own power. Bin Ladin Hated Saddam and urged Muslims to overthrow him,hell in the first gulf war one of the reasons Bin Ladin was so pissed off at the U.S was because he asked Saudi Arabia to wage a similar type of war on Saddam as was waged vs the Soviets in Afghanistan shortly after Iraq invaded Kuwait. Suadis said no,said the U.S would do it,allowed foreign non Muslims into Saudi Arabia to fight the first gulf war and thats what made Bin Ladin to declare war on the U.S. Saddam was a brutal dictator concerned with holding on to power and he saw Muslims extremist asa threat to his own power.
Sorry to derail the thread but geez.
even if they had them who would they be able to attack? definitely not the usa or should they bring the weapons in boats? at the time of the second iraq war they had nothing they've been overrun, why not use them to nuke away the invaders? It was sure that the US will come and overrun the country so why giving them away?
Saddam was bastard enough to use them on his own people to get rid of enemy soldiers or just shoot them to israel.
Reaching the peak of oil is a reason, having oil for 50 years longer is quite a good reason for oil lobbyists, i guess 8ftspider knows that, thats why he said it, of course the oil lobby knows that there won't be much oil, so why not get every barrel they can?
the stock market is not going to recover (caused by babyboomers leaving the market and a weak dollar)
and the value of the dollar is going to continue to drop like a rock
This is basic economics. maybe if we push education we can create enough new value in the US to make our currency worth something again, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.
The good news is that the video game industry will be unaffected/boosted by this. Video games are a great deal in terms of entertainment per dollar spent, and we can sell them internationally, so in that case the weak dollar actually helps us.
Edit:
The reason oil is getting so expensive is because our dollars are not worth much and China is cutting huge deals in the middle east for oil. They will pay any price. I don't think oil lobbiest are really doing much, although I'm sure it has dawned on the big oil companies that they don't really need to sell their oil right this second since they are going to be running out eventually.
http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/09/23/bailout-paulson-congress-biz-beltway-cx_jz_bw_0923bailout.html
Bullshit. http://www.williambowles.info/ini/ini-0292.html
Also, if we are, that doesn't negate his and Dick Cheney's ties to the oil industry.
Incidentally, I feel we seriously need to get beyond big oil, but why do people need the wells to run dry before they can switch to sustainable resources? I don't understand that.
Dude, that is some coincidence reasoning right there. Irag has no conection to the events of 911. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47812-2004Jun16.html
The only correlation I see between 911 and Iraq = Somebody pissed in our sandbox, and we punched the nearest, weakest kid next to us on the playground and stole his tonka truck that we liked.
Just my opinions, though.
Its sad that public works suffer from funding issues, but the second Wall Street sneezes $700,000,000,000.00 materialized from now where so the rich assholes that started this mess can continue on like nothing happened while the rest of us foot the bill for generations to come.
Fuck, we had a surplus...
Hopefully common sense will replace fear.
Silly politicians, they should nationalize oil and health care but not Wall Street.
I've read that before and it's funny that he even says the opposite in his article:
"[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This is not to say that at some point in the future (around a 100 years or so) we couldnt use it (oil) all up but by then one would assume that by then alternative energy sources will be developed (a reasonable assumption when one looks at history of energy sources: wood coal oil)"
So, approximately 100 years of oil in the past, and 100 years until we could possibly run out, seems that the peak has been reached then. It's all downhill from here.
The problem is nobody knows how much oil we have left but there's still vasts amounts to be found and also are looking at ways to get the oil that's more expensive to get out of the shale and sand. Alternative fuels are a necessity now. Yes, I agree with the idea behind the article but there can be a middle ground where most people are kind of right.
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Any government official that owns shares in oil, arms, and other controversial business areas should be investigated, if not removed outright from there position. They're calling the shots for the country, at the same time ensuring the status quo, that the wealthy stay wealthy. I don't have a problem with people becoming rich through hard work and ingenuity, but bending the rules and cheating is not on. Theres also the question of corporate price fixing, and monopolies.
Capitalism does work, but its the unregulated form of capitalism that has caused this mess. In countries where the state, federal level, has a certain degree of control there is not the same economic crisis. With all of the technological advancements and pollicies that the governments of the world have put into action, is the world a happier place? No.
We've been in much worse economic situations as a country and have bounced back. It's the nature of the beast. That was my only point. Yeah a lot of people are in some shitty situations ... I wasn't "playing down their grief". Don't take it so personally.
http://www.threepanelsoul.com/
100 years is a long time. America is only a little over 230 years old. We don't need to wait until it all runs out to switch over to sustainable energy. It's like nobody even started getting serious about it unitl you tell them we're about to run out. We're not about to run out, but we do need to get serious about it.
I'm just calling bullshit on "peak oil". We can't be at peak if we don't know how much there is.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] [/FONT]
Totally.
That's an interesting take on it considering the current administration seems to be the one behind the fear mongering.
Oh, you were joking, right? ... RIGHT?!?!?
If you think spending money is the problem, you really don't know what hurts the economy. Depressions occur when people STOP spending money - stop buying, stop investing, stop hiring - because they instead save their money to hedge against financial crisis.
The current crisis is the result of people buying on credit. Credit taken against
second mortgages and the like, funneled towards things they can't pay for, with foreclosures and bankruptcies the result. If people had trillions and trillions of dollars to spend, rather than borrowing against home equity, this never would have happened.
Blame the banks for encouraging risky loans in order to make a buck and fool consumers who don't live within their means. The war has nothing to do with what's going down on Wall Street.