LA or Montreal?
polycounter lvl 17
Hey guys, I have 2 job opps, I need to decide. I can´t say what are the companies so let´s talk about these cities, what is best, cost of living, car, house, food prices. Thanks in advance
Replies
Well it seems like each has its upsides and downsides,if you want 2 seasons,snow in the winter and sun in the summer montreal seems nice. If you want beaches and lots of sun LA sounds good. Another thing to keep in mind in LA is the long commutes,they seem to have lots of traffic.In terms of stuff to do LA seems like the place. Depends on what type of life you want really.
Within the last 4 months i have had two colleagues head off to Montreal and they seem real happy.
If you hav not done so i recommend trying to look up information on the two companies,what are they like,one might be good and one might be shit and that could also have an impact on your desicion.
I had two offers when i was looking for work awhile back. Austin and Denmark. Austin i was ok with but i have been there and done that and if i moved back to America i would have needed a car,insurance and so on. After seeing what Denmark was like i thought it was much better for the type of life i wanted. No car bills,no long commutes,work less,travel more and there was still a good amount of Europe i have not been to as well. Health was a factor too because i dont pay for healthcare and the food,in comparison to America is way healthier.
Public transportation in Montreal is ACE. You might rent a car to visit quebec, or go to New York (but you could take a greyhoud bus for that too) but other than that, everything is at walking distance...near city center i mean. Food is absolutly delicious (and it a french nitpicker who is saying that). Lots of cultural stuff to do, all the time. Winter if tough but well covered, it can be a real pleasure and the city is buzzing all year long. Streets are packed with cafes / terasses / shops / lovely people / cultural mix. Even Hobos are nice and friendly. It is super secure (not in all areas but I doubt you ll live in the worse ones they are quite far away from all the buzz). It s one lively city and at the same time it feels like a village. You d be surprised how calm it can be sometimes, and then 4 streets away it s mega super party time...I love it.
Montreal is the nicest city I ever went to, and I moved around quite a lot. I didnt go to San Francisco but heard lots of times they were similar in lots of ways (if that helps)
It really depends the companies and you salary...LA IS expensive, no matter what people are saying, it IS feckin awfully expensive. If you have a salary to match this, then all good, if not think about it wisely. Especially since most studios are located in crazy expensive parts of the city, and you ll have to live quite far and commute...
Good luck with the move. Not knowing the studios is really annoying to really help tho.
Well froglle winter is tough but thats what boose is for as well
I live in Montreal, and I moved here from LA.
I would say for the most part, LA is a lot better than MTL unless you're completely fluent in french (like Froggie), or young and single.
Rent is a bit higher in LA, but the taxes in Montreal are the highest in North America. To give you an idea, if I made my current salary in LA I would get over $300 more per paycheque. It borders close to 50%, and I'm not even making the Gamasutra industry average.
Keep in mind Canadian companies generally pay lower wages than American ones.
I think the cost of food is about the same in both cities, but LA has WAAAAY better quality and variety. Heck, L.A. has some of the best produce on the planet, and such a HUGE immigrant population to make for a much better selection of food. Heck LA has some of the best ethnic food on the PLANET.
You won't own a car in Montreal either. Parking at my office will cost me over $120 a month, and then another $100 per month at home. The transit system isn't bad but you pretty much have no choice in that matter. You HAVE to take the public transportation to get around.
If you're young and single, Montreal is definately the place to be:
The girls are insanely hot here (and they're permiscuous, and they outnumber the guys significantly), and there's never any shortage of anything to do.
But if you're looking for something longerterm, I'd suggest LA.
Can you help me find a solution to the horrendous sushi in MTL?
Everyone keeps recommending restaraunts, but they just keep getting more and more expensive, but the sushi remains completely inedible.
Hard flavourless and chewy (like erasers). Most Montrealer think Salmon is supposed to be that light-beige colour.
Bleahhhh
I have plenty of english speaking mates up there and they dont really complain that much. But Yes french would be a big plus indeed tho. But most people speak both languages...maybe because I am french I didnt notice a big difference? Not sure.
Yeah but you can have an awesome quality of life with a 50K salary in Montreal...60 / 70 would be pretty perfect (if you are single and not looking at spending you money). I doubt LA is that cheap to live on. Altho I dont really know (never lived there and not really attracted to it for some reasons)
On this I believe you completly...with such a big city it would be a shame if there wasnt any quality food available =D
I am glad I dont even have a driving licence...hehe.
Ever tried this little sushi shop corner of Laurier and Marquette?
Also, b1ll. Which part of the city you live in? I never saw anything bad happening in montreal in 4 years.
You'd be surprised how quick you can pick up french when you're surrounded by it, I wouldn't be too concerned with the french.
As for taxes... montreal is probably somewhat safer than LA being in canada, and a portion of that huge tax on your salary goes to healthcare (not sure how it works for foreigners working here) but you might actually get to opt out of a good portion of our federal/provincial taxes if you are a non citizen... not sure how it works so you might want to look into it.
But hey, thanks a lot for the feedback guys!
In montreal itself, U can have a car if u want, make sure u have parking include in ur condo or else.. Otherwise u can easily live with the metro, buses, walking or cab..
Realy depend what kind of ambiance u are looking for. Let me know. I live in montreal, and I have live in different town around montreal..
LOL apparently my previous post was rendered useless by a guy already fluently bilingual, who never had any problems with language. And had also never lived in LA.
Anyways Bugo,
Most fields in Montreal require you to be bilingual. It's not as big of an issue in games, but can be one depending on your work situation: the team you're on, and what you want to do with your career, and what kinds of goals you're setting on yourself.
If your wife plans on working in a non-professional field, she should know french, or won't get hired with any sort of ease. If she DOES have a professional field, she might have to be bilingual anyways or be overlooked for someone who is.
If you ever want kids and they're born in Quebec, they'll likely have to go to a completely french school (as a means to protect the language). There might be a way out of that, and if you find one let me know (I have co-workers trying to get their kids into an English speaking schools).
What sir-knight is saying about Canada having paid healthcare is nearly a moot point. Pretty much any major game studio that offers you a job, will supply a good health care plan.
Take both opinions with a grain of salt, I personally feel more comfortable with the West Coast lifestyle, but I know that's also not for everyone.
Wrong, Montreal has WAAAY hotter girls by a country mile and WAAAY more of them. They're not stuck up at all, and tons of fun.
English or french, No problem, Ive worked in several area in montreal and around montreal, and I have work with many people who only spoke English, and I had to adapt. so u will be fine, and trust me, Even inside a team, Rarely an issue, Many time i was the only one speaking french, and anyway after a while u end up speaking frenglish.
Trust me, DOnt let it stop u. . English or french, NOT going to be an issue.
And for the school thing, again Wrong. Many school are for english speaking people, Especialy inside montreal, and if u live in a town outside, nowadays, u will have atleast 1-4 school that are english base in ur area.
So anyway. Im sorry Jox. But check ur fact man
http://www.easyexpat.com/montreal_en/school_school-system.htm
The Charter of the French Language (1977), known as Bill 101, restricts access to English-language schools and requires children of immigrants to be educated in French. As a result, French-language schools became increasingly multiethnic.
So if you're an immigrant to canada, your kids *if you plan on having them* will have to go to a french school.
And now there's 2 people fluent in french, telling you that not being able to speak french isn't a problem.
Sadly no. They can go to english school, as long as they have some @education in english@. like I dont know Speaking it!
srsly, isn't learning a second language good for a kid's brain? It explains why we are so dumb down here in America.
Companies are offering language trainning (sometimes free). So why not jump in the french bandwagon and speak it while there?
As for your wife, bugo, if you go to LA she wont be able to work at all (if she isnt american or already have a visa allowing her to work in USA) while in montreal your wife will have a work permit (and an open one not tide to any employer like you ill probably have). That alone is a big plus. Not sure how it works for Bazilian people tho...So she might well be able to work there =D
Anyway, I trully dont care speaking in french, english, japanese or whatever, I want a city I can have a car, travel a lot and have fun. There´s another thing, lets consider im going to get 15% more salary at LA than Montreal, I hope this can help a little for you guys to see.
I was taking a look at cost of living comparison, I see that Montreal is not so far as LA.
I´m opened to hear some more opinions.
another thing to compare is expected time spent at the office and the amount of holidays. after all, you want the travelling and fun bit, not sit in the office round the clock, right?
montreal sounded nice from what i was told and have seen, looked like it might have a bit of a european touch perhaps. seems to get insanely hot and cold over there tho. and loads of snow in spring still?
Hey guys I did a pool in a way I can take some consideration between both cities. Please vote on the pool who know both cities or heard about.
Only a bit? Where are you living again? Looking at craigslist i'd say almost double or triple the cost...
Jean-Talon Market??? Where the heck are you eating you crazy man? Downtown only :P I can't think of an ethnicity who's food isn't represented in Montreal. Withing 10 minutes from my front door i have (off the top of my head): Gambian, French, Quebecois, Lebanese, Japanese, Thai, Caribbean, Indian, Ethiopian, Chinese. And they range from 5$ to 100$. You live in crazy town? HA!!!!!!!R!!
This city was built for walking, crazy jox! Also biking in this city is frigin awesome. I don't know what i would do without my bike. And i don't even take biking seriously at all. I'm sure for serious bikers it's probably in the wet dream territory.
I don't like long term in either. As they are a little too urban for my tastes. But that's all relative. I will not disagree however about the feminine populace. They rove around in gangs of cuteness.
But anyway, Montreal already has 5 votes, no votes for LA huh!?
http://www.city-data.com/
This site was very helpful for me to make my decision. They have a lot of information as well as forums where you can ask people who live there questions. Good luck!
hmmmm.
LA has a lot of very well documented vices. Montreal does not. That doesn't make Montreal a better place to live than LA, it just makes it more suitable for different people.
However:
Ethnic diversity in food is not even remotely comparable
Montreal = Korean Restaurant
LA = Korean BBQ Restaurant, Chains of 24 hour Korean Kimchi Soup Restaraunts, Korean Desserts, (probably 10 varieties of various specialty Korean dishes, not including the plethora of fusion places you can find in and outside of Koreatown).
Montreal = Japanese Sushi Restarants
LA = Sushi Restaurants, Ramen, Cooked Seafood, and all other kinds of teriyaki/sukiyaki specialty restaraunts.
(God I miss the ramen)
like seriously dude, the diversity is not even remotely close.
You know it isn't even comparable when a place as mediocre as '3 Amigos' is voted 'Best of Montreal' for Mexican food by Mirror Magazine.
http://eatwellmontreal.com/chefdeck-reviews-the-montreal-mirror-bom-awards-part-2/
Not saying all of the food in Montreal is BAD. It's just not as diverse as LA. That's by no means a make or break point for many people, but I wouldn't advertise Montreal as having a high diversity in food, when there's not even much of a diversity in its ethnic demographic.
I completely agree that the city is made for walking, and biking, but it's not really for everyone (heck, you'll see people biking in the snow in -20 (Celsius) weather).
Many people LOVE to drive, many people like taking weekend camping trips, road trip to neighboring cities, or just go to Ikea or Costco to pick something up (without having to rent a car, or cab every time they want to go out).
Many of us that have roots in eastern cultures are accustom to taking care of their parents in their old age. Once again, a city conducive to lots of biking and walking might not be the best place to settle for those kinds of situations, especially if owning a car is costly.
The city is very much like New York in that regard. It's made for public transportation, and has a good transit system, but that can be a major lifestyle change. If you're not planning on giving up the car, then be prepared that the cost of owning a car is a LOT higher.
I'm not voting, because I don't think LA is better or worse than Montreal.
I think it's different, for different people, for different reasons.
If your wife is a working professional, and can easily find a job in LA, there is a VERY good chance she might have to be bilingual to get that same job in Montreal (as is the problem with a few co-workers). If you're not planning on having a dual income family.. GREAT! but that might not be the case for everyone, nor is it ever advertised as an issue.
They are completely different cities for a multitude of reasons. One isn't better than the other, but one might be better suited for your situation than the other.
But anyway, I´m getting a better offer to LA, income, bonus, relocation. Everybody voted for Montreal, I´m still unsure why Montreal have the good deal and not LA. I also am a consumption guy and I like to go shopping a lot, what is the best for that?
LoL depends what you want to shop for.
Anyways, you don't HAVE to bike in -20 (some people just do).
(gaahh!! i didn't want to give that impression)
The city is a LOT like New York, it has an amazing transit system. You can take the train to cities like Ottawa, Toronto, or Greyhound to places like New York, Boston, or Philly.
Montreal has a LOT of stuff to do. Especially in the summer. It's a pretty active place with pretty active people. The people who love it here REALLY REALLY love it here.
Honestly i don't think Montreal (3.5 million peeps) vs LA (10million peeps) is very fair as far as diversity goes.
JOX:
http://www.midnightpoutine.ca/food/
http://www.malhisweets.ca/
http://www.leledacuca.com/eng/index.html
http://www.montrealfoodie.com/
http://ameliospizza.com/
That'll keep you busy for a little bit.
anyways, I live in LA, I've never been to montreal. I have no opinion.
There's a ton of fun stuff to do over there. Good art school for side classes, beaches aren't too far, fun hiking, hot weather, etc.
But yeah it's about 30 mins in good traffic to go out to bars and stuff in Hollywood. Just depends on what you want. If you're all about being a family man Thousand Oaks is near by, it's a lil cheaper and nice for families. If you wanna go out and stuff I recommend living in Sherman Oaks or something and that way you'll be half way between the fun bars in Hollywood and work. If you have any q's about LA just PM me.
Again it's been years since I've been to Montreal but I loved it when I was there. But LA is sunny and great temperature all year round.
Great weather, amazingly friendly and creative people everywhere and unparalleled scenery. Montreal is okay, but seriously doesn't compare. I've lived and worked in most major cities across the world and LA is the one I miss the most.
First off, the scenery is incredible. Mountains, beautiful ocean, every type of flora and fauna you can imagine. That's the reason why the movie industry settled there, and it shows. You're also 4 hours from Vegas, 2 from San Diego and one hour from the golden beaches of Santa Barbara.
Food is cheap in LA, and amazing in quality (all local produce and large portions). It puts NY and London to shame in terms of eating out and value for money.
The people. Typical stereotypes about LA residents only apply to out of towners who move there and adopt a certain type of attitude in order to fit in. I met some wonderful, genuine people there. The women are super hot too, and it's a cultural melting pot.. the amount of diversity and languages being spoken is amazing.
The main reason above everything else though is the way you are surrounded by creativity. Everywhere you go you're in the midst of authors, movie makers, animators, artists, sculptors, people from the games industry and more. Nowhere else have I felt so immersed - there's just so much damned culture there, and so much networking going on.
Before I moved there I had heard the stereotypes, and had a lot of preconceptions. It took me a year or so to really appreciate it but now I really think it's an amazing place to live. It's not a surface level city like London or NY, it's a place where you have to dig deep to get the most out of it.. it has its downsides too - traffic being the main one, but overall living there was a remarkable experience for me.