A hardware or software renderer for low poly in-game characters?

purple monkey

OK. i've just been told by someone who knows his stuff pretty good, to go for hardware rendering of in-game low poly characters with a crysis or unreal engine; and to leave maya software rendering alone.

how many of you thinks this is correct?

purple monkey

oh...and how many of you are actually doing this?

Eric Chadwick

It does show you know your way around an engine if you can show your work in said engine. But it isn't required by any means. I've mostly shown my real-time stuff in the engine it was targeted to, but a rendered view is fine too, as long as you don't go crazy with rendering options not seen in most games like DOF, motion blur, etc.

sprunghunt

here's some reasons why you should do it:

1- it'll look good in your portfolio to have in-game examples
2- some game competitions require you to make art for their engines
3- it can be fun learning new technology if you're into that sort of thing
4- it can be fun being able to see your art in an actual game - especially if you create something you can actually use in-game (eg: a new character model-
5- it's ridiculously easy to do nowadays as there's tutorials everywhere and editors are easily availiable
6- it can make your art look better than a screenshot of the viewport
7 - If it's not in a game engine it's not really game art
8 - if you do get a job you'll probably be doing it every day so you better get used to it now.
9- I do it all the time ... and you want to be like me don't you?
10- if you make something that you can use in-game and it becomes popular with gamers you'll be well known as "the guy who made that thing"

purple monkey

Thanks for the advice guys, that's great.

but then one more thing, someone...

Is a game engine render similar to a maya hardware render in terms of the final rendered image - shadows, reflections, spec, normals, etc.
the reason for this question is that i've always used maya software rendering. never touched the hardware renderer before.

basically, what i'm getting at is; if i just used maya's hardware renderer to create final renders for in-game images for my showreel, will that be accepted as normal. or does it really make no difference to them, as long as they can see that you can do the modelling/texturing work well.

the reasons for all the stupid questions is that i'm having trouble getting my normal map fine details to show up nicely in my software rendering. they look no better that a simple bump map. i'm using a blinn shader, and i'm not using mental ray. now i've just been advised to use phong and mental ray to improve the look of my normal details. fine. but the guy also said that he wouldn't bother with mental ray or software rendering if it's just in-game image presentation i'm concerned with.
so now the politics of all this stuff is totally confusing me!! aaaagghhhh!

and what about reflections and specularity. do they show up in hardware renders? i've just done a hardware render of my character, and he looks exactly the same as he does in the maya viewport. quite good, but with no specular highlights - am i supposed to bake the spec in to the base or diffuse texture?

any and all responses appreciated

jase

Mark Dygert

I think the problem that you're running into with the spec not showing up, is that you probably don't have the lights set up properly, or not at all. Specular is reflection (normally simplified to a white highlight) if there is nothing around your model to reflect it won't show up. Toss in a few lights or move the ones you have around and see what you get.

Personally I wouldn't get hung up on what rendering method or weather to render it in engine or not. That seems to be sucking away too much time and focus. When the art is ready you could take a screen grab of it in the Maya viewport and that would impress just as much. It's not the rendering that impresses, its the model and the skill that went into making it. Present it in the best light you can and try to communicate your skill and the model efficiently.

For me that means showing:
Construction shots - wire edges on a faceted model.
Texture flats - Final Flats and Wire overlay to see UV layout.
Beauty shots - Rendered in whatever, engine, Mental Ray V-Ray whatever make it look good, preferably close to something in game.

The beauty shots are nice, its the other stuff that actually gets peoples attention. At least it does where I work...

While its true that a crappy model's appearance can be improved with advanced lighting techniques it still won't land that person a job. On the flip side a great model holds up no matter what format it is being presented in.

Worry about what matters.

purple monkey

thanks vig,

it's definately good advice. i'm getting worked up over things that aren't that important. and i will keep this in mind:

"Construction shots - wire edges on a faceted model.
Texture flats - Final Flats and Wire overlay to see UV layout."

but i think i miscommunicated my post a little...it's not spec i have the problem with. spec is showing up in my software renders fine. it's the fine details and wrinkles in my maya renders which aren't showing up so good. my first post explains the problem if you're interested -

"what's the best normal shader to use in maya?"

...though i am curious as to why spec doesn't show up in the hardware render...

anyway,

cheese on toast is being very helpful. and i've got the same post running in zbcentral too.

i need all the help i can get. let me know if you get more ideas

thanks

jase

purple monkey

vig. i really like your avatar! what size & format is that in?

jase

Baddcog

I usually do my renders in the game engine. Main reason is it's the best way to see the actual results that will be seen in game exactly like they will be seen in game.

Sometimes this requires you to build a map or small area with proper lighting to show it right. Sometimes you can just stick it in an ofiiical map or fan made map.

I work with Max and have been doing stuff for Zero Gear lately. Zero Gear is using the Ogre Renderer. I know Max has an Ogre viewport plugin and probably a Maya has one too. I have yet to use it but the cool thing is that it is wysiwyg. You plug all the materials in and render in Max and it will look the same as in game.
But still, it'll just be the model and in the case of Zero Gear having it in game is nice because you get the garage backdrop along with characters/color mixer, etc... Easier to fine tune change in game appearacne then trying to do in 3d.
That also gives people a chance to see what it looks like compared to surrounding game objects.

purple monkey

hi baddcog,

thanks for that. if i had the time, i would look into game engines and the possiblilty of using them to showcase aspects of my work. but i have sooo many other things i have to learn and do, at my current rate i won't be done til next year!!

in addition, i've just solved my normal rendering issues by installing maya 8.5. it's much more powerful that 7.0. it p***es all over normal mapping issues. my renders look awsome in comparison to yesterdays!

just so that nobody wastes their time, i've solved the issue. upgraded to maya 8.5.

thanks to all who helped

jase