what's the best normal shader to use in maya?
hi there,
I'm really struggling with certain aspects of my work, and I'd really appreciate some help here, anyone, please. (And thanks in advance, by the way)
Ok. In Zbrush I have made a sculpt of a male head. I have created all the maps I need: Colour base, diffuse (Which includes AO & cavity in the mix), normal, specular and spec colour.
I go into Maya. Put all the maps in what I believe are to be the correct channels. Render the image out...But I just can't get the image to look right. The wrinkles I created in zbrush don’t stand out.
I think the problem rests with the normal map shader... I'm using Maya 7.0. I was using the free "Killeroo" normal map shader from the company, "Headus", but after lots of tweaking and fiddling around, I suddenly realise that this normal shader uses a lambert node, which means it has no specularity channels. So I had to stop using it. Which is a shame as it is very good otherwise….and no, I can’t change it to a blinn – don’t know why…
I eventually discover Maya's own normal mapping shader built within the bump map channel – 2d bump attributes_Tangent space normals. (above)
If you look at the example images I've included here, you can see that my normal map seems Ok….
And from the render you can see that my skin texture is OK, but the wrinkles around the eye areas are really undefined. the details are "flat". I can't get the sculpting work that I created in Zbrush to show properly up in my Maya renders. Even though they do show up in the high quality hardware render…WHY IS THAT?!
Please don't tell me that professional games artists are using this in-built Maya normals shader for their in-game character work - the professional stuff you see is awsome. my render's a piece o' shit! - what's missing?.....
Ok. My questions:
1. Has anyone successfully used the Headus Killeroo normal shader, and if so how do you get specularity in to the mix?
2. Is Maya's in-built normal map shader meant to be this crappy, or am I doing something wrong?
3. Is there an EFFICIENT, SIMPLE normals shader for Maya available somewhere that I can easily use, and get PROFESSIONAL results for in-game character creation?
4. Can some of you guys on the forum please show me where to look for the tutorials that really helped you become the artists that you are today, especially if you're in-game asset creators? please? i'm going nuts with stuff!
Thanks for you’re time. maybe one day i'll be able to help you out!
[FONT="]jase
ps ..how do i add images to this thread?
[/FONT]
I'm really struggling with certain aspects of my work, and I'd really appreciate some help here, anyone, please. (And thanks in advance, by the way)
Ok. In Zbrush I have made a sculpt of a male head. I have created all the maps I need: Colour base, diffuse (Which includes AO & cavity in the mix), normal, specular and spec colour.
I go into Maya. Put all the maps in what I believe are to be the correct channels. Render the image out...But I just can't get the image to look right. The wrinkles I created in zbrush don’t stand out.
I think the problem rests with the normal map shader... I'm using Maya 7.0. I was using the free "Killeroo" normal map shader from the company, "Headus", but after lots of tweaking and fiddling around, I suddenly realise that this normal shader uses a lambert node, which means it has no specularity channels. So I had to stop using it. Which is a shame as it is very good otherwise….and no, I can’t change it to a blinn – don’t know why…
I eventually discover Maya's own normal mapping shader built within the bump map channel – 2d bump attributes_Tangent space normals. (above)
If you look at the example images I've included here, you can see that my normal map seems Ok….
And from the render you can see that my skin texture is OK, but the wrinkles around the eye areas are really undefined. the details are "flat". I can't get the sculpting work that I created in Zbrush to show properly up in my Maya renders. Even though they do show up in the high quality hardware render…WHY IS THAT?!
Please don't tell me that professional games artists are using this in-built Maya normals shader for their in-game character work - the professional stuff you see is awsome. my render's a piece o' shit! - what's missing?.....
Ok. My questions:
1. Has anyone successfully used the Headus Killeroo normal shader, and if so how do you get specularity in to the mix?
2. Is Maya's in-built normal map shader meant to be this crappy, or am I doing something wrong?
3. Is there an EFFICIENT, SIMPLE normals shader for Maya available somewhere that I can easily use, and get PROFESSIONAL results for in-game character creation?
4. Can some of you guys on the forum please show me where to look for the tutorials that really helped you become the artists that you are today, especially if you're in-game asset creators? please? i'm going nuts with stuff!
Thanks for you’re time. maybe one day i'll be able to help you out!
[FONT="]jase
ps ..how do i add images to this thread?
[/FONT]
Replies
what do you mean, i can't add?
how does this other site link up with polycount?
i just register. upload my pics, and they'll show up in my posts just like that?
still alive?
Mental ray supports maya's phong shader just fine (amongst others), although it won't recognise a gloss map plugged into the "cosine power" slot. The slider still works though, if you don't mind having a uniform value for gloss. Spec maps work fine though.
heh, im here now, sorry, well do as Mike said.
............................................
Cheese on toast,
this is interesting advise. thanks for that. i'm totally new to texturing,but i can paint ok so no problems with making the maps. but knowing why to put them where they go is a total bloody mystery to me!
is a phong shader the best one to use for skin generally? don't know much about mental ray either....can you point me in the direction of a good tutorial
that combines phong and mental ray info in terms of texturing skin?
thanks again
jase
sorry to be a complete dick! can any of you look at this thread again, just in case the images i included later make a difference to you're thoughts.
hey Cheeseontoast,
so you're saying that maya's in-built normal mapping shader (in the bump slot - 2d bump attributes_Tangent space normals) combined with a phong shader and mental ray is the way to go, yeh?
thanks:thumbup::thumbup:
jase
I tend to use phong for most things, as it tends to look more like an in-game shader than Blinn for example. You don't really need a tutorial if your model already looks right in the viewport.
your a star!
yes. i pretty much played around with everything! the normal map and shader does work...just not very well. i think it may be the fact that i didn't use mental ray.
but keep 'em coming, guys. i'm still up for new ideas...
thanks Rebb
jase
Monkey : I saw your other thread about presenting your work as "game ready". Honestly, as long as you're not adding tons of things like soft shadows etc in your Mental Ray renders, it's pretty close to how it'll appear in game.
You might like to experiment with some .cgfx shaders if you're dead set on presenting work is if it's in game. There's a good one on these boards http://boards.polycount.net/showthread.php?t=49920 , although it might be a bit complex if you're just starting out. Make sure you enable cgfx shaders in the maya plugin manager, then you can create them in the same way you create a lambert, phong etc. Switch OFF high quality rendering in the viewports to see them correctly too.
Another alternative is to use Xnormal's viewer for presentation. It's all realtime, and great for beauty shots.
thanks for that. i'll think i'll take yours and a few other peoples' advise and just keep things as simple as possible. as far as cgfx shaders go, i think of them being "a bit complex" for me right now as being an understatement!
it seems phong and mental r is the way to go. i may also update my maya to version 8.
cheers for your help
jase
In 8.5 and up JSmapper or similar things aren't required anymore. You can just apply your normal map as a bump map and change the object space to tangent. Add your other maps and you should be good to go.
thanks for that. everyone i communicate with is saying pretty much the same things, which is great, because it's consistant info (finaly). i will upgrade maya.
btw, i really like your work there. aprill is a babe - she's a beautyful study, but thor is the dogs bollocks man! brilliant. how long did he take and how long have you taken to get to this level. you've used an emmisive and an alpha map on him, what do they do?
is alpha for the hair???:poly136:
do you start off with a base mesh in maya or do you retopologise after the high res mesh is made?
i'm really suprised by how "blue" the skin on your spec colour map is. do you use just spec colour or is it combined with spec (greyscale) too - is it worth using both?
sorry! rude to ask maybe, but i'm trying to get my flow together!
thanks anyway
jase
Thanks for the kind words.
-The emissive map is for the glowing bits.
-The alpha is for the hair.
-The spec map is up to you ..it depends what you're doing. It can take some experimentation.
-I model a base in maya and put it in zbrush then export a high and low from zbrush. I had to retop thor in maya a lot after because I added the armor in zbrush. Then I unwrap it. Then I render normal maps and ao in xnormal. Then I texture in photoshop.
grateful you're so candid about your techniques. i've just sent you two private mails. one is for you, the other was meant for someone else! sorry! i'm in the middle of a few threads and i got confused!
thanks again
jase
just so that nobody wastes their time, i've solved the issue. upgraded to maya 8.5. much more powerful that 7.0. it p***es all over normal mapping issues. my renders look awsome in comparison to yesterdays!
problem solved
thanks to all who helped
jase