It's funny, because I'm usually more impressed with outrageous and creative art when I learn that the artist took no drugs what so ever during the creative process of it. David Lynch for example, crazy ass guy and he's against the use of drugs, although I do believe Eraserhead was written under the influence, only because he stated he didn't remember the process of writing it. Here's a quote from him I like
"We all want expanded consciousness and bliss. It's natural, human desire. And a lot of people look for it in drugs. But the problem, is that the body, the physiology, takes a hard hit on drugs. Drugs injure the nervous system, so they just make it harder to get those experiences on your own."
I was refering more to most people's knee-jerk reaction that anything whacky is made by someone under the influence, completely ignorant of whether said artist does or doesn't do drugs and if someone suggests that the artist was sober, the response would be "bullshit".
I wasn't genuinely suggesting that creativity is bound to drugs, rather, "they" seem to. Which seems to diminish what they think humans are truely capable of without chemical assistance.
Or maybe I'm just misinterpretting your post, eitherway I tend to agree with the quote of david lynch, though I'm not against the use of drugs as an occassional recreational thing.
Yeah, I knew what you meant, I forgot to add something along the lines of agreeing how people always think that crazy art had to have been made while on drugs. Which some is, however I am more impressed by the ones who just think of that stuff on their own. And as far as recreational use goes, do what you want, best not to over indulge though.
My creativity is at it's best when i have something that absolutely needs to be done or i need to be somewhere. Basically when i shouldn't be working on something is when i am best at making the arts.
Roo: You're right, it is like that. The problem is that the level of belief you have in your
discovery and the sense of well being you feel, secure in the truth of what you are doing is
the part that leads to the creation of better art.
Much like in your dream, whether its true or not, its a great feeling, much like any creative high
whether you are high or not!
i disagree with rooster, although he's clearly very smart. i think that drugs have massive use if you can be conscious of how they're effecting you, and not over use them... which gets into the origional question --
there are as many different creative processes as there are different people. if you include drugs into your creative process, then that will be your creative process. you don't need drugs to be creative, but drugs will create a specific creative process... so Steviant, in your conversation, you were both right.
furthermore, art is a matter of describing states. you can be creative without drugs, but you won't be describing an altered state.
excuise-fucking-me, but those 2 pictures from the lcd test are not matter of being more relaxed. the artist is trying to describe a reality that is very, very bizzare, he's not just saying "fuck it" and just mucking about without inhibitions.
anyway, back to what i started with
when i started smoking weed (which i dont do anymore) i noticed that i could profoundly connect with and understand what i was drawing.. if i drew the ugliest arm in the world, it WAS an arm.. it was almost a real thing. of course when you become sober again, it's obvious that it's not a good drawing, but that's missing the fucking point! being able to profoundly associate with what you're doing while you're doing it is the valuable skill to learn from getting high, not the end result.
doesn't anyone actually WONDER why people who are high think they make great art? i mean seriously, are you kidding me? are we THAT externally focused?
remember kids -- if you can understand the way your mind works, you'll be happy!
John, i think you've made a better argument for *appreciating* art while high with those statements, than actually using them for any sort of productive artistic purpose.
I was refering more to most people's knee-jerk reaction that anything whacky is made by someone under the influence, completely ignorant of whether said artist does or doesn't do drugs and if someone suggests that the artist was sober, the response would be "bullshit".
I wasn't genuinely suggesting that creativity is bound to drugs, rather, "they" seem to. Which seems to diminish what they think humans are truely capable of without chemical assistance.
Or maybe I'm just misinterpretting your post, eitherway I tend to agree with the quote of david lynch, though I'm not against the use of drugs as an occassional recreational thing.
I get this kind of thing a lot. I'm straight edge, I've never done a thing in my life, not a sip of alcohol, not a cigarette, nothing, but I'm admittedly sort of out there in my way of thinking, I have a tendency to come up with some things that are pretty off the wall, and because of that very few people besides those that know me closely rarely can believe that.
drugs are a lazy way to think crazy, true off the wall thought takes dedication and lack of sleep
maybe it was interesting once to tell others how it feels to expand the mind in certain directions, but lets face it its been done by everyone and their dog.
EQ -- well i can't really disagree with that but i think that you missed my point a tad. i think it all has to do with your strategy for doing what you're doing. experiences like the one i described have helped me quite a bit in terms of understanding what i'm doing and have helped me become a better artist, without question.
anyway, changing the way that you're thinking is clearly important, sober or not. the nice thing about weed is that it can focus your awareness very finely... you become aware of things that you respond to when you're sober, but aren't necessarily conscious of. of course, that's just my experience, but reguardless of your experience, it's up to you to integrate that experience into your entire way of thinking.
we all have different strategies, and drugs make you think differently. therefore, your art strategies are going to be different on drugs. maybe sometimes better, maybe sometimes worse, but certainly different. i mean really, this is just a discussion about the mind. if we all pursued this issue a little bit deeper it would come to a point where we'd actually get into what drugs actually do to people, and we'd start discussing different strategies and thought patterns and that whole thing. we could then all try these strategies out and expand our abilities as artists. drugs are useful sometimes because they just basically kick your ass into these different states...
a lot of these comments are something like "drugs do this" or "drugs do that". it's hard to respond to that.. i mean.. umm.. okaaayy sure. yes, that's right, for you a drug does that yes. annndd that says nothing about how you're going to integrate that experience into yourself. i've learned a lot from weed and after some work, i have definately integrated a lot of 'being high' into my sober states. these are all just ways of thinking.. sooooooooo if you can't integrate a way of thinking into your life.. that's your fault.
I've got the same mindset. Razor-straight edge here, too. Wait, that's razor sharp, not straight.. err.... Ruler straight? Whatever.
Although I guess that could be used as an argument against me and my anti-drug policies... The fact that I sometimes (but rarely) love staying up so late I'm barely conscious just because everything becomes so damn funny. In a way, I think that means part of me approves of mind-altering substances... I'd think it's a very similar effect. Well, aside from mine being completely self induced with no help of any external substances. I don't need their help! I can be screwed up on my own!
Well, the Arfenhouse movies can help if they want.
Rox: I definitely think that would go against the straight edge mindset, from a technical viewpoint. I don't see drinking a pint as being worse than straining your body and mind by staying up ridiculously late. And it's certainly a similar effect to taking drugs.
Replies
I was refering more to most people's knee-jerk reaction that anything whacky is made by someone under the influence, completely ignorant of whether said artist does or doesn't do drugs and if someone suggests that the artist was sober, the response would be "bullshit".
I wasn't genuinely suggesting that creativity is bound to drugs, rather, "they" seem to. Which seems to diminish what they think humans are truely capable of without chemical assistance.
Or maybe I'm just misinterpretting your post, eitherway I tend to agree with the quote of david lynch, though I'm not against the use of drugs as an occassional recreational thing.
discovery and the sense of well being you feel, secure in the truth of what you are doing is
the part that leads to the creation of better art.
Much like in your dream, whether its true or not, its a great feeling, much like any creative high
whether you are high or not!
there are as many different creative processes as there are different people. if you include drugs into your creative process, then that will be your creative process. you don't need drugs to be creative, but drugs will create a specific creative process... so Steviant, in your conversation, you were both right.
furthermore, art is a matter of describing states. you can be creative without drugs, but you won't be describing an altered state.
excuise-fucking-me, but those 2 pictures from the lcd test are not matter of being more relaxed. the artist is trying to describe a reality that is very, very bizzare, he's not just saying "fuck it" and just mucking about without inhibitions.
anyway, back to what i started with
when i started smoking weed (which i dont do anymore) i noticed that i could profoundly connect with and understand what i was drawing.. if i drew the ugliest arm in the world, it WAS an arm.. it was almost a real thing. of course when you become sober again, it's obvious that it's not a good drawing, but that's missing the fucking point! being able to profoundly associate with what you're doing while you're doing it is the valuable skill to learn from getting high, not the end result.
doesn't anyone actually WONDER why people who are high think they make great art? i mean seriously, are you kidding me? are we THAT externally focused?
remember kids -- if you can understand the way your mind works, you'll be happy!
I get this kind of thing a lot. I'm straight edge, I've never done a thing in my life, not a sip of alcohol, not a cigarette, nothing, but I'm admittedly sort of out there in my way of thinking, I have a tendency to come up with some things that are pretty off the wall, and because of that very few people besides those that know me closely rarely can believe that.
maybe it was interesting once to tell others how it feels to expand the mind in certain directions, but lets face it its been done by everyone and their dog.
True, true...
anyway, changing the way that you're thinking is clearly important, sober or not. the nice thing about weed is that it can focus your awareness very finely... you become aware of things that you respond to when you're sober, but aren't necessarily conscious of. of course, that's just my experience, but reguardless of your experience, it's up to you to integrate that experience into your entire way of thinking.
we all have different strategies, and drugs make you think differently. therefore, your art strategies are going to be different on drugs. maybe sometimes better, maybe sometimes worse, but certainly different. i mean really, this is just a discussion about the mind. if we all pursued this issue a little bit deeper it would come to a point where we'd actually get into what drugs actually do to people, and we'd start discussing different strategies and thought patterns and that whole thing. we could then all try these strategies out and expand our abilities as artists. drugs are useful sometimes because they just basically kick your ass into these different states...
a lot of these comments are something like "drugs do this" or "drugs do that". it's hard to respond to that.. i mean.. umm.. okaaayy sure. yes, that's right, for you a drug does that yes. annndd that says nothing about how you're going to integrate that experience into yourself. i've learned a lot from weed and after some work, i have definately integrated a lot of 'being high' into my sober states. these are all just ways of thinking.. sooooooooo if you can't integrate a way of thinking into your life.. that's your fault.
Although I guess that could be used as an argument against me and my anti-drug policies... The fact that I sometimes (but rarely) love staying up so late I'm barely conscious just because everything becomes so damn funny. In a way, I think that means part of me approves of mind-altering substances... I'd think it's a very similar effect. Well, aside from mine being completely self induced with no help of any external substances. I don't need their help! I can be screwed up on my own!
Well, the Arfenhouse movies can help if they want.