Looking for a list of good, accredated collage
I Have a problem.
I am an avid gamer. I enjoy games so much that I want to start making them.
I have done camps, tutorials, I've worked with design programs (currently learning C++ & C#, have learned many tools such as 3D game studio, a touch of Maya...Etc.). I have six collage level books right next to my work area... its really 'the works' for a pre-collage student.
So then I start to google and look at Computer magazine ads for a list of collages and guess what?
ROADBLOCK.
So far I have found three accredited universities. UAT, Southern Cal, and full sail. So-Cal I don't have the grades to get into (3.7 is what you NEED, average applicants from out of state [me] are 4.0+ GPA), and Fullsail doesnt have dorms. UAT works fine.
So this is what I DESPERATLY need .
I need either a list, or individual suggestions, of collages that are accredited, good, and have a degree in game design.
(just to throw in there): I specifiacally want to work in either the design department, or the Art department, because logic/concept design is fun for me, but Art is of an equal level of...funness (for lack of better word).
Thank you!
I am an avid gamer. I enjoy games so much that I want to start making them.
I have done camps, tutorials, I've worked with design programs (currently learning C++ & C#, have learned many tools such as 3D game studio, a touch of Maya...Etc.). I have six collage level books right next to my work area... its really 'the works' for a pre-collage student.
So then I start to google and look at Computer magazine ads for a list of collages and guess what?
ROADBLOCK.
So far I have found three accredited universities. UAT, Southern Cal, and full sail. So-Cal I don't have the grades to get into (3.7 is what you NEED, average applicants from out of state [me] are 4.0+ GPA), and Fullsail doesnt have dorms. UAT works fine.
So this is what I DESPERATLY need .
I need either a list, or individual suggestions, of collages that are accredited, good, and have a degree in game design.
(just to throw in there): I specifiacally want to work in either the design department, or the Art department, because logic/concept design is fun for me, but Art is of an equal level of...funness (for lack of better word).
Thank you!
Replies
Even though you've done "camps" here and there and are a huge gamer, there is a big difference between working in games and loving games. In my opinion, most of these schools that label themselves as "game schools" are barely worth your time and/or money. They lure you in with bullshit tag lines like, "Do you love games? You're well on your way to becoming a game developer!" and don't deliver ACTUAL skills you need in the industry.
If I were you, I would figure out what avenue you want to take...either design or art and seriously focus on the principles of that. Since I'm not a game designer, have never written a GDD and really only know about a dozen actual game designers...I don't feel right saying what you should look into. Art, however, I would consider getting education in fine arts and then apply these skills to your game art. In all honesty, you'll be spending most of your free time working on personal projects anyways, if you REALLY want to do this for a living...i think a fine arts background is probably more beneficial to you to build a solid foundation of skills (if you want to do art, that is.) Plus, I think the degree it would give you (BFA...or whatever) would be more beneficial for international employment rather than the diploma smaller places hand out....That's only an assumption though, I'm a college drop out :P
Again, I'm a bit jaded when it comes to schooling for "game industry" jobs. Unless you're some sort of prodigy, I don't think there's any way any of those schools could give you what you need to get a job right out of school.
I'm sure this will be echoed by many, but in the end it all comes down to what you can show. For art, it's your portfolio. If your folio kicks ass, it really doesn't matter where you come from or what education you have. As far as I know, no one in their right mind would hire a guy with 5 years of schooling and a shitty portfolio over a guy with no schooling and a mind blowing portfolio.
END TRANSMISSION!
Gav
Oh god do i know that.
Im currently working on a design porfolio in 3ds Max, specifically for Cryptic. I've also commented on their forums and have got a 3k+ hits thread and a 1.5k+ thread on game mechanics.
Unfortunatly I cannot free form scketch. But I CAN do computer models/animations. What specifically do you mean by fine arts?
I recently completed a degree in computer games design and I can tell you that all it did for me was help me decide which role I specifically wanted to focus on, it gave me direction. The certification itself is useless.
If I already knew what I wanted to do, like you do, I certainly would not have gone to college/university.
(oh and I'm speaking from a game artist point of view, as most people here will be since this is primarily a game art forum
If you want my advice, get a degree in computer science. There's a whole hell of a lot in computer science that can be applied directly toward creating games. And if game creation turns out to be the wrong path for you, there are plenty of other high-paying jobs that computer science will prepare you for. Of course, this is largely dependent on just how tech and math-savvy you are. A degree in computer science is going to require a decent aptitude for math, and a gift for problem solving wouldn't hurt either.
It's sounds like you're already on the right path. Learning programming languages like C++ and C# are a great start for game design and computer science. Get a useful degree in a respected field. Most game design degrees only teach superficial technical skills for specific 3D software and game engines. You can easily learn the same things on your own. With a degree in computer science from a major university, you'll learn all of the programming and mathematics you would need to design your own games from scratch. With practice, you'll have a programming portfolio that will get you a job at almost any game studio around.
If you need any help with learning 3D software or game engines, just check wikis, documentation, and of course, polycount.
If you're dead set on being a game designer and not a programmer or artist, then the most valuable things you will do is learn how to use level design programs like the Unreal Editor, Hammer, Source, etc., and create your own levels both for yourself, and hopefully for some sort of mod team. Getting an internship as a level designer is the next step after that, and then finally, you can graduate into game design.
Acceptance is just a click away!
DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE FOR A GAME ART OR DESIGN PROGRAM. (emphasis on the period)
The one exception to this might be the guildhall..
About me:
I started on a computer animation degree before game design was even thought of seriously. The program consisted of a smattering of programs to use, and basic assignments, as well as some art courses and general ed to round out the program.
Part way in I felt I wasn't learning what I thought I should be and changed schools. I attended the Academy of Art in San Francisco, CA. Great school for the arts, wasn't such a great program for computer art. I didn't do well there (my own fault), and was also discouraged by what the upperclassmen in my program were saying.
Took a few years off, worked on things on my own, then went back to my original program for a bit to get enough credits to transfer to another university so that I could get a damn degree, since it IS going to start being important, especially if I ever leave the game industry track.
I transfered in to DeVry university's online game programming course.
It is acceptable, but still not exactly what I'd want. It is a work in progress of a curriculum and even they'll tell you that changes are being made in regards to student feedback. I'm somewhat disheartened with it, I wanted more programming in my programming degree, but I'm so close to being done (1yr to go), that it makes zero sense to abandon this without getting that damn degree to get past assorted HR people's checklists.
So what I'll say to you is; go to any respectable college. Major in programming/computer science if you want to take an engineering track, or major in fine arts/illustration/sculpture if you want to be a game artist. You will learn more applicable skills in a more logical and concise manner if you take one of those degree paths than you will taking some game design course.
Game design/programming programs seem to be confused as to their goal. They'll teach you some programming, and some art, and some design theory, and some network architecture, since by god you better know what a router is and the complete history of networking if you're going to make a networked game right?
Anyway, what Gav said above is very correct. If you love game art, then be an artist. Attend the best art college you can afford, and major in something like illustration or sculpture. If you cannot sketch freehand: Learn How. Seriously. If you cannot do something now, then put some effort into it, suck at it for a while, and eventually you'll improve. In this aspect life is like an RPG. You can level up your skills by using/grinding them.
It is important that you love it though, because that is the only thing that will keep you doing personal projects that will be the real meat of your portfolio.
No degree program on the planet will give you a stellar portfolio without your own personal effort over and above the requirements.
I personally take a game design and dev course at college, and it isn't all that bad. But you should never EVER expect to learn everything you need to know from them... cause you wont. Its what you do outside of school that makes a difference. Its such a cheesy line but its the truth.
But whatever you hear from commercials and shit is a lie... big time, just do your research, talk to teachers on the phone or in an interview, and make a smart decision. A game degree or diploma will not get you shit man, if you decided you hate games and wanna try something else, go ahead and burn that diploma and use it as a heat source as you try and figure out what you're gonna do next.
I'm pretty sure for the most part that most of us are self taught, and people may take extra classes (such as traditional arts) to futhur those skills, or go to some workshops etc. or just hammer out a shit load of work and hope someone notices.
Take a buisness course or something so at least you can use that sexy degree for something besides games if anything were to happen.
Good luck, and get practicing
Sorry for all the swearing...
I'd echo the previous comments about find out where you want to go and pursue the 'non-gaming' route and you'll have a solid foundation for other avenues of employment, the game industry is a hard beast to get into and not for everyone, and starting out 40,000-140,000 in debt with little to show for it is a rough beginning.
I just finished my BFA in Computer Animation and I would have been better off just saving up cash and being disciplined enough to do tutorials on the web, at the end of my schooling I was telling them what they should be teaching from all the help I was receiving here.
You can go to any school you want. Hell you could go to Harvard Law and teach yourself 3d and game related stuff on the side and get a gig in our industry or you could just take some classes at a community college on fine arts, color theory, art history, sculpture, life drawing, etc and teach yourself 3d.
AI to me was a good experience in a lot of ways. I made a lot of friends and industry contacts but you are already well on your way by being right here on polycount.
There are ton of industry guys here that are more than willing to help anyone push there skills and improve the quality of there work. Hell I got my current job here at Raven Software because of Polycount and I have met and made a lot of friends from here.
What I am really trying to say that in the end it doesn't matter if you went to some game design school that cost 120 grand or taught yourself while living at home and working at Best Buy. Being a friendly person that people want to work with and having kick ass work is what it will come down to.
Nicely stated Jesse. I went to Brown aka Clown college for a bit.
You also wont have to deal with guys on your team playing WOW in class when your working towards completing a project. Not to say this wont ever happen in the workplace but the guys that make it in the industry are dedicated.
http://www.gamecareerguide.com/schools/
Basically if you want to be say an artist...its much better to go through fine arts and apply the solid art foundation into game art afterwards...you would definitely stand out more....
Most schools are typically out there to "certify" its applicants on paper backed by essentially nothing so they are really there for the sake of networking imo...
For those thinking of making an absolute cushy living making games...I might suggest you go into business schools/entrepreneur your own company...
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/collage
If you are determined to go to college, my guess is that a degree in architecture would be the most closely related and useful to a game designer. It would also possibly give you a viable career option to fall back on if you don't get into the game industry or after working in the industry for a few years get burnt out and want to quit.
Rofl i know... i looked at my title and said [insert 'bad' word]
good thing I don't... Quite honestley I could make a cushy living, but I live and breath gaming, and have some ideas of my own
That could be a problem if you're planning on making them. I'm self taught, as are most of the people in the industry already. This is my second career and I enjoy making games so much that I decided to do it full time. I love learning and making games, playing them comes in next to dead last on my list of things to do in a day.
Making games and playing them are totally different things. I'd have more confidence that this was the right move for you, if you said I love making art, or I really like MAKING games. Because cranking out art in a production setting is very different, and I hope you really like it, because that's what you'll be doing the most.
If you like playing games, keep playing them and find something else that affords you a comfortable life and allows you to keep playing. Making them, isn't going to do that.
That's awesome you're collecting knowledge. But how good are you at putting that into motion? When its interview time they'll be looking at what you can do, not whats sitting next to your desk.
Artistic talent, dedication, and great content for the portfolio.
Don't even think about putting a portfolio together without all three. If you don't have those things, its going to be a long frustrating road, with a lot of doors slammed in your face and unanswered emails. The learning you need to do, can be obtained with dedication and self teaching. Skills that when coupled with talent make for one hell of an employee. But like Vag pointed out, traditional art talent is great and will carry you far in the industry but you CAN get in without it.
Artistic talent can be grown but it takes time, and 95% of the game art degree programs will never touch on it, so don't expect them to help you in that regard.
A degree is not a requirement for an art related position. Talent, dedication and a great portfolio are. When I say great portfolio I don't mean some gimmick site made in flash that requires 3 plug-ins just to get to the splash screen, I mean whats featured in it. You could submit your stuff printed on paper plates and if its what it should be, they'll call. Chances are if you don't already have what it takes and just need time to put a portfolio together, school won't really net you much.
Actually if I was going back to school to teach myself how to be better at what I do, I'd fill my courses up with 90% traditional art and 10% app learning.
One school I haven't seen you look into is Guild Hall, its an amazing school and one of the few that are worth the tuition. I guess if it requires moving and housing its out the picture?
As for being a designer, two types of people get their ideas made into games. Someone with an obscene about of cash, or someone already in the industry who's worked their way up into that position after years of proving their ideas are worth listening to.
Everyone, and I mean everyone in the industry has 2-3 game ideas boiling around in their noggin on any given day of the week. Even people not in the industry will assault you with ideas they want made. If you want to be a designer you'll need to figure out a replacement for fossil fuels or get in line.
Sorry to sound harsh, crunch time... rendering... bla bla bla...
Game art degrees are pretty much worthless and game design ones even more so. I've been through one and I know and have spoken to a fair few others who have, too, and it's the same story all over; waste of time and money unless you're good before you go in. And really if you're good before you go in, all it's doing is buying you 3 more years of time to work on your own stuff before you have to face the big bad world. If I had the choice, I'd go back and take a fine art course rather than game art.
There were also a lot of people on my course who thought they would be qualified for a job in designing games once they graduate just because they loved games and had loads of game ideas... none of them have jobs in the industry let alone as game designers. Everyone on this forum here lives and breathes gaming and everyone here likely has more ideas for games than could actually be made - it's not a special attribute that'll make you stand out.
Anyway, I don't mean to be negative about all this :P I think the message I'm aiming to get across is that it's a metric shitton of work and only you can teach it to yourself... but if you're cool with putting in the effort you'll get somewhere.
I go to Cogswell Polytechnical College in Sunnyvale, CA. It's a tiny school (around 250 students enrolled) and we have a game design program, 3D modeling, 3D animation, concept art, and C/C#/Java programming. It's also accredited. The teachers here, for the most part, are top notch and many of them come from professional experience. And all the students are either aiming at being in the film industry or the games industry.
Now, I will echo the advice that going for the game design degree is a waste of time, as it won't give you many skills guarenteed to make you marketable, BUT, the game design classes are really good. Especially the Game 1 class, which is all board game design. It's taught by Steve Librande from Maxis (currently the lead designer on the Cell portion of Spore) and he's an amazing teacher. We also have a very active Game Development Club, which hosts game dev challenges every term.
So, that's my recommendation. Oh, and I've talked with people from DeVry and Full Sail. Don't touch those schools. DeVry has no clue what they're doing and Full Sail isn't accredited or really recognized (but put a lot of money into marketing, for sure).
I glanced over a few of the posts...and I'm sure there is a bit of the same old same old. ZoMG ARTS SKEWLS ARE TEH SUK! GAME ART PROGRAMZ ROFLS!...and so on.
The general consensus is usually, if you want to take the college route to get yourself into the industry, go to an Art School with a strong emphasis on traditional skills, and learn the 3D/Technical side from "t3h int0rwebz".
There is no fast track into the industry, and there is no right/wrong way to go about it. If you're a person that learns more from a hands on/in your face learning, then maybe school is a good choice for you. If you feel you can accomplish personal goals, and really teach yourself whatever road you want to go down, then save the money...and go for it.
I went to the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, going in with no artistic skill what-so-ever, and I landed work at a AAA studio within a few months of graduating. That's not to say I simply handed over my degree and said "gimme work". I worked my ass off every day. I trolled forums, surrounded myself with other talented/driven people, did personal projects, tried to learn something new every day. Would I have gotten to the same place had I not gone to school? Who knows. I doubt it. Going to school gave me that stepping stone, or introduction, into the skillsets that I developed on my own, all the while allowing me to bounce my ideas and art off of a wide variety of people with a wide variety of skillsets. A degree alone will NOT get you into ANY industry. You have to have passion and personal drive/goals. I work with people who have degrees, and I work with people who don't.
In the end, it doesn't matter HOW you get there, just try and take the best route FOR YOU. School's work...if you have that passion. If you sit around and play WoW all day, and turn in C work just to graduate, then you will end up working at GameStop...complaining about how shitty your school was...and how it's all their fault that you can't find work. It just depends on the individual.
[edit]
Just to clarify..if you do decide on a "game art" program...do some hardcore research before signing ANYTHING. There are a lot of programs simply cashing in. Try and find graduates, see where they are, how they got there, what they thought of the school, etc.
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- you absolutely 100% need a good portfolio to get your first job. "Good" refers mostly to showing real potential, rather than a mind-blowing professional quality collection of work.
- to help with landing your first job, you could do with some relevant work experience on your resume
- a university course will not automatically give you a portfolio, i've never ever seen one entirely composed of coursework that was any good. You WILL have to work on your own stuff in your own time if you want to come out with a cracking portfolio
- a university course can help you to gain relevant experience. I don't mean adding your grades and every module you took to your resume, i mean the teams and activiites that often spring up in and around courses. Canalside Games, based at Huddersfield Uni, are an excellent example of this. http://www.canalsidestudios.com/games/index.php?page=home
if you've got a course in mind, enquire as to what might be running on the side.
- everyone should go to uni to get drunk a lot and have sex with girls. It's a lot easier than outside college, cos there's literally thousands of them crowded into a small space.
qft