I'm glad to see at least one other person wasn't impressed by this movie. Really, if I could completely separate it from a Batman movie and just watch it as something else...I could give it 2.5 stars, maybe 3, but so little of that film made me feel like I was watching a Batman movie. And even if I wasn't, it was just "so so", not this god delivered miracle of film making that so many are claiming it to be. Christian Bale's "batman voice" is completely ridiculous; every time he opened his mouth it completely took me out of the movie. Harvey Dent felt so incredibly tacked on (also whoever said "as soon as he had the coin I knew he was TwoFace...maybe the name Harvey Dent should have rang that bell first? hahaha) like they just felt like they needed an element to stretch it out an extra hour. It was also weak that he and Bruce did not know each other (or were you know, best friends...), sure it's not as big of a change as completely re-creating Ra's Al Goul's character in Batman Begins, but it seemed pretty unnecessary.
And for a place that has so many comic fans I'm shocked to see I'm the only one so far who hated Ledger's performance as the joker. Dont get me wrong, I think he probably did the best he could with the direction he was given but by no stretch of the imagination was that character a great or remotely familiar portrayal of the Joker that I know and love. Maybe I'm too attached to the character as he's one of my all time favorite villains, but it couldn't stop feeling like whoever wrote the movie was doing research on all of the characters and his notes on the joker were just:
"uh...white face or something...crazy....uh, likes purple and green."
I mean the whole movie he was so mumbly and weak and un-confidant with almost no finesse at all. You're supposed to be the most terrified of the Joker when he STOPS laughing and joking and smiling and starts talking in a low serious voice, not the other way around. I dont think Ledger's Joker even smiled more than twice in the whole movie. Part of what makes the Joker so great to me is that within a few lines he can go from totally harmless and campy to a murdering psychopath.
Call me a bitter old man, but when an animated kids show does a better job with the Joker I just can't help getting a little miffed.
I thought it was a great action flick - a lot of fun. the joker was badass and i really liked every scene he was in. love the scarecrow's stuff in the movie as well.
but it went on for far too long, ruined what had been a well integrated dent story arc, and really cumbersomely drove home their little hero/anti-hero message.
batman's head looked ridiculous. his gravely voice was pretty jarring whenever he had to say more than one word.
I took the family and they all liked it (including me). I think I share some of the complaints here. It was too long and Christian's 'batman voice' is awful.
I do wish Ledger was still alive to continue the joker role ... aside from the obvious, I wish he wasn't dead
. There were definitely areas that the movie could have lost some scenes and nothing would have felt lost.
Ironman is still holding the top slot in my favorite comic based movies for this summer. The pace wasn't as good on this movie and I don't think the actress for Rachel was nearly hot enough to have men swooning over her. The movie should definitely be viewed in the theaters though. I missed out on IMAX because it was sold out everywhere. Damn them for not having enough theaters
Oh, and there were people who actually brought a baby into the movie and there were a lot of kids no older than 5 in the theater. What the fuck is wrong with people? Damn, I thought I might be safe at this flick because it had the higher rating and high violence It was too good of a movie to pass up though.
I saw it on IMAX last night. Truly incredible cinematography on the scenes that they shot specifically for it. And the transitions from regular aspect ratio to IMAX were nearly inperceptable.
But to be honest - I liked Batman Begins more. My problem with this movie was that there was no driving force behind the movie. Nothing pulling me into the story until around the 2:30 hour mark and by then it was way too late. The plot was too scattered and jumped focus too many times. And the villain's plans too convoluted and one thing that I always REALLY hate in movies - everything so planned out in advance including crosses and double-crosses. Seriously, you can't plan for all that shit.
But yes - Ledger is awesome, Bruce Wayne is awesome, everyone in the movie is awesome except Batman who is fucking lame.
I'm going again tomorrow night. We'll see if my opinion changes...
Saw it yesterday morning. And frankly, I think they should have probably changed the title. It could have just as easily been "Gotham City: Dark Knight."
I don't mean to critisize the film for this, as I found it to be a very interesting take on the Batman story. But I was struck with how much of the film was about Gotham, its residents, and their reactions to events as opposed to Batman. It seemed as if every major character in the movie was more concerned about the city and their relation to it than they were in their own interests. Everyone seemed to view themselves in relation to their role in the city, and the influence they had on the city.
It made for some rather thought provoking social commentary. But at the same time I had a difficult time believing that heroes, civil servants, and villains alike would all be that obsessed with the bloody city. I suppose you could say that it was themeatically heavy-handed. That is my biggest gripe with the film.
On the positive side, the action and drama were tight. The acting was superb, just about all-around. (the italian mob boss phoned it in) Heath Ledger's take on the Joker was believeable, relevant, disturbing, and constantly entertaining. It's rare indeed to actually feel like rooting for a character who is so morally bankrupt. But the Joker's schemes were far beyond the hokey and over-the-top stunts pulled in previous Batman flicks. This Joker was practical and devilishly clever. Harvey Dent's transformation, both physically and psychologically, into Two-Face was also exceptional and light-years beyond Tommy Lee Jones' butchery of the role.
Overall, a thouroughly satisfying sequel to an already excellent film. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take this film series next.
Loved it, lots of standout moments and a very ordered whole. I'd been hopeful ever since Empire detailed how 'The killing joke' was an influence for Nolan, but this went beyond
my expectations, it really was fantastic.
Great movie; though I think it had more depth than Batman Begins, it felt less of a 'Batman' movie overall. As expressed by others, the plot felt convoluted at times. All of the actors/acting was great, particularly Ledger.
To all the folks saying the story was too convoluted, it's really one of those movies you have to see a second time to fully grasp it, at least I did. Seeing it the second time I picked up on a lot of the subtle moments where things were referenced, then later on became a focus. Really an amazing script how everything is interwoven.
I saw it this afternoon, and Ledger blew me away. Every time he was on screen I got depressed, because I was so transfixed by his performance, and I knew I'd never see it again. No this isn't "I think he's awesome cuz he's dead." This is, "He's awesome, so I'm sad that he's dead."
As for the rest, I think Harvery Dent was a good character to bring through this movie, but they should have cut it as soon as we knew he turned into Two Face. They should have left Two Face to another movie, and just let Harvey Dent have his stint in this one.
Everytime Batman was riding on his wierd motorcycle, with his cape flapping behind, I would just hold my breath, hoping his cape would get caught up in the rear tire.
To be fair, Mark Hamill had a lot of time and material over which to develop his rendition of the Joker. I've actually always been partial to his take on the character myself. But I thought Heath Ledger did an admirable job given the two and a half hours he had to develop the role. Mark Hamill had multiple seasons, a whole crap-ton of episodes, and some of the best script writing and storyboarding ever seen in modern televised animation. (Not to mention a feature film and several straight-to-dvd releases)
I won't actually argue which is better. I'm just saying Hamill has a clear advantage. (especially since Ledger will never get a second chance to reprise the role)
i was sad at the very end at the prospect of ledger never being able to reprise the role, but really they'd be in much the same situation if he had lived. he's given the performance of his life, and it's there, committed to celluloid and we should be very happy about that. dead or alive, the third movie will have to wrestle with the enormous expectations and quality level set by TDK, and now with ledger gone there are no temptations to take the easy way out. if and when the third film gets made, it will be something different; nolan doesn't retread old ground. hopefully another extremely inspired take on old characters or plots.
Can you stop putting spoilers in your posts without warnings. Some of us haven't seen it yet. Srsly, thanks a lot.
EDIT: Mostly @ tumerboy
@Asmuel:C'mon man, by now everyone should know to avoid movie/game threads like the plague if they're avoiding spoilers. While it should be common sense to give a warning, the chance of that not happening is always there.
I do believe going to a movie/game thread while not wanting to read a spoiler is just as much a fault as a spoiler written without warning.
On-topic: The movie was grand. The entire experience was something I wish hadn't ended. I'm not going to echo most of the praises given but instead will mention one thing I didn't particularly enjoy:
The whole sonar echoing to visualize 3D space really bothered me. Even for Bruce Wayne, that sort of tech seemed really hokey and out of place. While his eyes were glowing white, my eyes were rolling.
:icon15:
I'm glad to hear that seeing it a second time adds to the experience as the entire studio is going @ 3:30pm to check it out.
Richard Cain- alright ill give you that. but I dont know for me
the joker is supposed to kill people with toys
and I didnt get that with this, and there are other little things things in the way the joker acts that make him who he is and my favorite villain that I just didnt get with Ledger, but his acting was great, my favorite roll of his by far
I just watched the George Clooney Batman / Robin movie on TV today. It was pathetic.
I still like the first 2 Tim Burton Batman's though, a little cheesy but entertaining.
B
@Asmuel:C'mon man, by now everyone should know to avoid movie/game threads like the plague if they're avoiding spoilers.
Hardly. It makes perfect sense to go to one to find out whether you should spend 13 bucks on a movie ticket, or 100 bucks on a game. Unless of course it says spoilers in the title. But yes the danger is always present, it would be good if people watch what they say though
I actually *hate* the toy weilding goofy ass gadget version of the Joker. I love the depraved pyscho version. Joker is a madman genius, not a crazed clown.
Really makes me wonder what they'll do for the next movie, since they've stuck to non-super powered villains, I think it'd be cool to see a modern take on Mr Freeze.
Really makes me wonder what they'll do for the next movie, since they've stuck to non-super powered villains, I think it'd be cool to see a modern take on Mr Freeze.
Dent was the focus of the entire movie. The premise of the whole film was where would Dent fall, would he end up being the "white knight" that Gotham needed, or would the Joker succeed in corrupting him. That was the focus of the film and ultimately what the struggle between Batman/Bruce Wayne and the Joker was all about.
Richard Cain- alright ill give you that. but I dont know for me the joker is supposed to kill people with toys and I didnt get that with this, and there are other little things things in the way the joker acts that make him who he is and my favorite villain that I just didnt get with Ledger, but his acting was great, my favorite roll of his by far
I took the spoiler out from your comments, since it's not really an issue with the movie plot or anything and I wanted to talk about it
The version of the Joker killing people with electric joybuzzers and exploding jack-in-the-boxes is one interpretation of the character, but I think of that one mostly from the cartoons. In other versions, he's brutal and sadistic. In The Dark Knight Returns, the Joker kills an entire television studio audience with poison gas. In The Killing Joke, he shoots Barbara Gordon at point blank range, paralyzing her, then strips her naked and takes pictures to taunt the Commissioner (actual torture porn, that was a real shock.) And in the most famous one of all, during A Death In the Family, the Joker savagely beats the second Robin with a crowbar, then kills him by blowing him up in a warehouse filled with explosives
exactly the way the movie Joker killed Rachel Dawes
. No tricks, just murder with explosives.
That's the Joker I grew up reading, and the one I've always thought was most terrifying - the guy with absolutely no rules. For me, Ledger's Joker captured that perfectly.
I think part of the reason why sub_roland swears by the animated series version of the Joker portrayed by Mark Hamill is that that version of the Joker is very true to the entire "clown" theme, while being brutal and sadistic at the same time. You don't always get to see exactly how dark he can be in the cartoons episodes, as there are certain things that can't be shown on a program intended for children. If you haven't, watch the movies "Batman: Mask of the Phantasm", and "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker." With a movie release and a straight-to-video release, the animation team at Warner Bros was at liberty to show exactly how dark and twisted their rendition of the Joker could be.
Saw it tonight, thought it was great albeit just a tad long. One complaint I had was that
Two Face's scarred side to his face was way too over the top and felt very fake. To me it was out of place against the realistic vision these batman movies adhere to.
It's really a minor quibble though. I felt the cast was great all around with the exception of Bale's Batman voice. I echo the sentiment that a word or two is okay but a full sentence and it's borderline hysterical. Bottomline :thumbup: Badassery!
Concerning Ledger's portrayal as the Joker since it's such a topic...
For me I really enjoyed his characterization when he would just break out of the goofy high pitched voice and go into a low gutteral yell. That rage in his voice during those moments really sold it to me. One example is the end of the video with the Batman "wannabe". He asks a few questions in his silly voice before dropping into rage crazy mode and killing the guy. Loved it!
Sorry Asamuel, I didn't realize what I was saying were spoilers. I figured everyone had seen previews, and knew
Harvery Dent
was in the movie. I also figured pretty much everyone here would know that
Harvey Dent
is
Two Face
I did not know that, or atleast did not remember it. I could have gone in completely unaware of that fact, and watch his story unfold in its true glory. but alas, that will never happen.
Random foreshadowed speculation for the next film which I suppose I'll spoiler
Wayne RE new Batsuit: "Will is stop a dog?"
Lucius Fox: "How big a dog are we talking. Chihuahua or Rottweiler? ...It'll stop a cat
As long as its not the Halle "my bad" Berry version. Humm a tortured love story next? I guess that could work but there's so much else to be found that could work better. Anti-Hero or Supervillian is a touch played out.
If they do put her in, it would be great if they could drop the whole dual love story Selina & Bruce, Cat & Bat, but neither of them knows one is the other. I never really liked that, any of the times they tried to pull it off. I'm not so sure I'm ready for this version of Batman to have a sidekick or a love interest, especially if its one character that fills both rolls... yuck.
I think Catwoman has been ruined, and it might sink the franchise if they try to pull out another hit (especially after this one) and salvage her film persona at the same time. Thankfully they haven't made such a mess in the comics, but that's not what everyone has seen in recent years.
I hope the rumors of David Tennant as the Riddler, come true.
Or a new spin on Batman No Mans Land where we see the return of Scarecrow and Gotham thinks its on its own, but that could be jumping too far into the future, this Batman is still relatively young.
I was pretty excited when I realized that Mr. Reese could be The Riddler in the next movie. It'd be nice to see a version of the Riddler that isn't the over-the-top Jim Carey version.
Holy crap! Ledger dies from mysterious overdose during production, and now Bale gets arrested before the London premiere for assaulting his mom and sister. Is this movie making everyone crazy?
Isn't the Riddler just a less interesting version of the Joker? The Riddler doesn't bring anything new to the table other than the riddles from what I've seen in comics and the animated series....
Wow Christian Bale assaults his mom and sister huh? Good thing hes done filming the latest Terminator movie, that teaser looked TIIIIGHT!
If we're talking about Jim "I really wanted to play the joker but they wouldn't let me" Carry. Then yea the riddler is a carbon copy. In the comics he's more founded on logic and mind f*ck puzzles then chaos and living in the moment. It could really drag in the detective/academic side of things. 'Boo-I'm Batman' can only last for so many movies.
I'm not sure he would work by himself as the only villain, but he could be a nice toss in sub-plot.
Wait a minit, is this one of these 'hero gets bad reputation, citizens want to get of him but in the end he proves he is the good one' kind of sequels?
(yeah haven't seen it yet :P)
holy black eye batman, don't let it be so bale. and to richard cain you hit the nail on the head sir. Though I have yet to read all the comics listed by vermillion just the dark knight returns so i'll have to check out the other two and have only heard great things about the killing joke and actually haven't heard of a death in the family thanks guys
I finally saw the movie today. Spoiler Heavy here so most of this will be black.
First impressions of the movie were relatively positive. But on the bus ride home when I had a chance to think a bit more about the movie I was less and less impressed with it.
Heath's performance was very good, but he's not God's Gift to The Joker that everyone was so seemingly in love with.
The best parts of the movie were by far the two major scenes involving only the Joker and Batman. There were some surprising similarities between his performance and Jack Nicholson. Some of the mannerisms were similar even though the context of each movie is different. I also loved the scene when Batman charges Ledger on the bike, which definitely had a similar feeling to the scene in the first movie when Batman is flying down onto Nicholson.
But other than some memorable moments he was just an excellent part of the movie. It certainly wouldn't be a good movie without a gritty/psycho performance of the Joker. But someone else could easily have done that. Heath was by no means "meant" for this role, he was just chosen and did well.
I was definitely not a fan of the politics in the movie. I think they could have cut at least 45 minutes out of the movie in explanations of crime families and mob bosses money. They built that plot in the first and could have continued it in the second and concluded it in a 3rd movie involving just Two-Face.
I thought the makeup for Two-Face looked too much like the alien from Mars Attacks. And I was disappointed they killed him at the end. I would have liked to see him in his own movie.
Bale's batman voice is annoying for sure. And I gave up on the believable technology part. There's so many things wrong with the science of the fiction in 'begins' and 'knight'. Begins had a machine that could evaporate water. I hate to break it to the public but human bodies are made of water. Activating that machine would have killed them.
So seeing cellphones as sonar devices was laughable, but was easy to get over. I also didn't like the 'Batman detective' part where he loaded one bullet into a two-turret mini gun aparatus to get a forensic result and a finger print. Which while thinking more about it confuses me as to why he did that in the first place.
Overall I am disappointed we won't be seeing Ledger in another movie
, especially after his final speech to Batman which was excellent writing.
But I struggle to think what could really be used for a plot in a 3rd. They put so much focus on the crime families and mob bosses that any 'classic' villain that has nothing to do with the mob would look out of place. Namely classics such as Riddler and Penguin. Some new ones that might be interesting would be Bane or Harley Quinn.
have to do with Batman vs. the police/public in some way. That was the whole point of the way the movie wrapped up, so they will have to follow that some how. There are several classic stories in which Batman doesn't face any costumed villain, like in Year One (which was pretty much Batman Begins) and in Long Halloween.
On the other hand, they'll probably go with some sort of name brand enemy. I'm really not interested in any of the existing gallery. I don't want Riddler or Penguin or anyone that would be an obvious letdown from the impact of the Joker. Off the top of my head, I think I'd most like to see a return of Ra's from the first movie. I'm sure that sounds a bit cliche, but Ra's in the comics has the ability ressurrect from the dead, *and* we never saw what happened to his body in the movie. That's probably too supernatural for these flicks, but it would be a good foe. In BB, he was still focused on Gotham and largely overlooked batman. If he decided that destroying Batman was the best way to bring down Gotham
and especially if he used the police force to do it, like the end of TDK
apparently aaron echheart (two face) is signed up for the third movie.
That disappoints me. Partly because I really didn't want him to die at the end of this one, because his plot was developed quite a bit for a third, and second that they clearly admitted he was dead so to have him come back ruins the gritty believable world.
As for picking another classic villain. I don't see how everyone is holding this Joker performance on a pedestal. It was a very good performance, but so was Aaron Eckheart's. The acting was good for all the characters really.
And they kept the grittyness of Two-Face even though he looked like the alien from mars attacks, with regard to the makeup/fx.
Whats to say that with proper direction and a good gritty down-to-earth plot we can't see a reboot of another classic villain?
They had a memorial for Harvey Dent, FOR THE PUBLIC. They didn't actually say he died. Only the Gordons and Batman know what really happened. Batman survived the fall, and the Italian guy was dropped from much higher onto pavement... so I believe he lives.
The whole mob setup was to give credibility to Dent and to show just how dedicated and 'white knight' he was. It was to set him up for his fall from grace into hell. I LOVED that they started as one thing and ended up another. AND that it took a long time to get through. Few films do this any more. They sacrifice character development for action/romance/time. We usually end up getting 'Hi I'm Harvey Dent. I'm a DA. OH GOD MY FACE! Call me Two-Face now.' This time we got to *believe in Harvey Dent* and watch this man go from his highest to his lowest of lows.
Bullet forensics: he fired several types of bullets into the same stone type to determine how the stone affected disentigration of the round. From that he was able to enter the data into his computer to reconstruct the crime scene bullet. Well, that's my take on it.
Judging from these first two movies, Nolan is going along the lines of Batman's most psychological villians. That takes Bane out of the equation (never cared for him), love her but without Joker, no Harley Quinn. Penguin would not work well in this more 'realistic' take. No Freeze either. Catwoman... She could work but I can't really think of how right off, at least nothing that would cap off Nolan's three-movie-im-done idea. NO ROBIN! Just NO!
For the third, I hope it's a REAL Riddler, not the stupid Jim Carrey version. Someone along the lines of the animated series Riddler. Someone psychologically interesting and devious. Have him working behind the scenes most of the movie, let Batman do his detective work to really figure out who's behind it all.
I think robin is one of the only things he can do thats original from his last 2 movies. I'd love to see how he does it, although Im a bit tired of that orgin story after seeing it so many times.
What I expect to happen is a movie with robin, where the main enduring bad guys are the police who are after batman, and throughout they will sprinkle in his whole rouge gallery in various plot points as he thwarts their schemes and dodges the police.
It could be Two Face again.. you saw a memorial not a service, Batman lived from the fall and you knew from previous experience in the movie Batman knew the distance one could fall and not be killed. So when he pushed them all over the edge, I bet he is in Arkham with the joker, and they buried Harvey Dent the idea.
....
Christian Bale has stated for Batman 3.. “If Robin crops up in one of the new Batman films, I’ll be chaining myself up somewhere and refusing to go to work.”
Replies
And for a place that has so many comic fans I'm shocked to see I'm the only one so far who hated Ledger's performance as the joker. Dont get me wrong, I think he probably did the best he could with the direction he was given but by no stretch of the imagination was that character a great or remotely familiar portrayal of the Joker that I know and love. Maybe I'm too attached to the character as he's one of my all time favorite villains, but it couldn't stop feeling like whoever wrote the movie was doing research on all of the characters and his notes on the joker were just:
"uh...white face or something...crazy....uh, likes purple and green."
I mean the whole movie he was so mumbly and weak and un-confidant with almost no finesse at all. You're supposed to be the most terrified of the Joker when he STOPS laughing and joking and smiling and starts talking in a low serious voice, not the other way around. I dont think Ledger's Joker even smiled more than twice in the whole movie. Part of what makes the Joker so great to me is that within a few lines he can go from totally harmless and campy to a murdering psychopath.
Call me a bitter old man, but when an animated kids show does a better job with the Joker I just can't help getting a little miffed.
but it went on for far too long, ruined what had been a well integrated dent story arc, and really cumbersomely drove home their little hero/anti-hero message.
batman's head looked ridiculous. his gravely voice was pretty jarring whenever he had to say more than one word.
Ironman is still holding the top slot in my favorite comic based movies for this summer. The pace wasn't as good on this movie and I don't think the actress for Rachel was nearly hot enough to have men swooning over her. The movie should definitely be viewed in the theaters though. I missed out on IMAX because it was sold out everywhere. Damn them for not having enough theaters
Oh, and there were people who actually brought a baby into the movie and there were a lot of kids no older than 5 in the theater. What the fuck is wrong with people? Damn, I thought I might be safe at this flick because it had the higher rating and high violence
But to be honest - I liked Batman Begins more. My problem with this movie was that there was no driving force behind the movie. Nothing pulling me into the story until around the 2:30 hour mark and by then it was way too late. The plot was too scattered and jumped focus too many times. And the villain's plans too convoluted and one thing that I always REALLY hate in movies - everything so planned out in advance including crosses and double-crosses. Seriously, you can't plan for all that shit.
But yes - Ledger is awesome, Bruce Wayne is awesome, everyone in the movie is awesome except Batman who is fucking lame.
I'm going again tomorrow night. We'll see if my opinion changes...
I don't mean to critisize the film for this, as I found it to be a very interesting take on the Batman story. But I was struck with how much of the film was about Gotham, its residents, and their reactions to events as opposed to Batman. It seemed as if every major character in the movie was more concerned about the city and their relation to it than they were in their own interests. Everyone seemed to view themselves in relation to their role in the city, and the influence they had on the city.
It made for some rather thought provoking social commentary. But at the same time I had a difficult time believing that heroes, civil servants, and villains alike would all be that obsessed with the bloody city. I suppose you could say that it was themeatically heavy-handed. That is my biggest gripe with the film.
On the positive side, the action and drama were tight. The acting was superb, just about all-around. (the italian mob boss phoned it in) Heath Ledger's take on the Joker was believeable, relevant, disturbing, and constantly entertaining. It's rare indeed to actually feel like rooting for a character who is so morally bankrupt. But the Joker's schemes were far beyond the hokey and over-the-top stunts pulled in previous Batman flicks. This Joker was practical and devilishly clever. Harvey Dent's transformation, both physically and psychologically, into Two-Face was also exceptional and light-years beyond Tommy Lee Jones' butchery of the role.
Overall, a thouroughly satisfying sequel to an already excellent film. I'm looking forward to seeing where they take this film series next.
my expectations, it really was fantastic.
As for the rest, I think Harvery Dent was a good character to bring through this movie, but they should have cut it as soon as we knew he turned into Two Face. They should have left Two Face to another movie, and just let Harvey Dent have his stint in this one.
Everytime Batman was riding on his wierd motorcycle, with his cape flapping behind, I would just hold my breath, hoping his cape would get caught up in the rear tire.
To be fair, Mark Hamill had a lot of time and material over which to develop his rendition of the Joker. I've actually always been partial to his take on the character myself. But I thought Heath Ledger did an admirable job given the two and a half hours he had to develop the role. Mark Hamill had multiple seasons, a whole crap-ton of episodes, and some of the best script writing and storyboarding ever seen in modern televised animation. (Not to mention a feature film and several straight-to-dvd releases)
I won't actually argue which is better. I'm just saying Hamill has a clear advantage. (especially since Ledger will never get a second chance to reprise the role)
Heath was great as joker.
If new batman movies use joker again, I keep thinking Mike Patton would be awesome for the role.
EDIT: Mostly @ tumerboy
i was sad at the very end at the prospect of ledger never being able to reprise the role, but really they'd be in much the same situation if he had lived. he's given the performance of his life, and it's there, committed to celluloid and we should be very happy about that. dead or alive, the third movie will have to wrestle with the enormous expectations and quality level set by TDK, and now with ledger gone there are no temptations to take the easy way out. if and when the third film gets made, it will be something different; nolan doesn't retread old ground. hopefully another extremely inspired take on old characters or plots.
@Asmuel: C'mon man, by now everyone should know to avoid movie/game threads like the plague if they're avoiding spoilers. While it should be common sense to give a warning, the chance of that not happening is always there.
I do believe going to a movie/game thread while not wanting to read a spoiler is just as much a fault as a spoiler written without warning.
On-topic: The movie was grand. The entire experience was something I wish hadn't ended. I'm not going to echo most of the praises given but instead will mention one thing I didn't particularly enjoy:
I'm glad to hear that seeing it a second time adds to the experience as the entire studio is going @ 3:30pm to check it out.
I still like the first 2 Tim Burton Batman's though, a little cheesy but entertaining.
B
Hardly. It makes perfect sense to go to one to find out whether you should spend 13 bucks on a movie ticket, or 100 bucks on a game. Unless of course it says spoilers in the title. But yes the danger is always present, it would be good if people watch what they say though
It DOESNT get any cooler than this!
fucking PIMP!
Dent was the focus of the entire movie. The premise of the whole film was where would Dent fall, would he end up being the "white knight" that Gotham needed, or would the Joker succeed in corrupting him. That was the focus of the film and ultimately what the struggle between Batman/Bruce Wayne and the Joker was all about.
Also, they show Batman
I took the spoiler out from your comments, since it's not really an issue with the movie plot or anything and I wanted to talk about it
The version of the Joker killing people with electric joybuzzers and exploding jack-in-the-boxes is one interpretation of the character, but I think of that one mostly from the cartoons. In other versions, he's brutal and sadistic. In The Dark Knight Returns, the Joker kills an entire television studio audience with poison gas. In The Killing Joke, he shoots Barbara Gordon at point blank range, paralyzing her, then strips her naked and takes pictures to taunt the Commissioner (actual torture porn, that was a real shock.) And in the most famous one of all, during A Death In the Family, the Joker savagely beats the second Robin with a crowbar, then kills him by blowing him up in a warehouse filled with explosives
That's the Joker I grew up reading, and the one I've always thought was most terrifying - the guy with absolutely no rules. For me, Ledger's Joker captured that perfectly.
Concerning Ledger's portrayal as the Joker since it's such a topic...
I did not know that, or atleast did not remember it. I could have gone in completely unaware of that fact, and watch his story unfold in its true glory. but alas, that will never happen.
you have ruined my life.
Lucius Fox: "How big a dog are we talking. Chihuahua or Rottweiler? ...It'll stop a cat
If they do put her in, it would be great if they could drop the whole dual love story Selina & Bruce, Cat & Bat, but neither of them knows one is the other. I never really liked that, any of the times they tried to pull it off. I'm not so sure I'm ready for this version of Batman to have a sidekick or a love interest, especially if its one character that fills both rolls... yuck.
I think Catwoman has been ruined, and it might sink the franchise if they try to pull out another hit (especially after this one) and salvage her film persona at the same time. Thankfully they haven't made such a mess in the comics, but that's not what everyone has seen in recent years.
I hope the rumors of David Tennant as the Riddler, come true.
Or a new spin on Batman No Mans Land where we see the return of Scarecrow and Gotham thinks its on its own, but that could be jumping too far into the future, this Batman is still relatively young.
http://omg.yahoo.com/news/report-batman-accused-of-assaulting-mom-sister/11062?nc
Wow Christian Bale assaults his mom and sister huh? Good thing hes done filming the latest Terminator movie, that teaser looked TIIIIGHT!
I'm not sure he would work by himself as the only villain, but he could be a nice toss in sub-plot.
What the hell Bale?
(yeah haven't seen it yet :P)
First impressions of the movie were relatively positive. But on the bus ride home when I had a chance to think a bit more about the movie I was less and less impressed with it.
Heath's performance was very good, but he's not God's Gift to The Joker that everyone was so seemingly in love with.
I thought the makeup for Two-Face looked too much like the alien from Mars Attacks. And I was disappointed they killed him at the end. I would have liked to see him in his own movie.
Bale's batman voice is annoying for sure. And I gave up on the believable technology part. There's so many things wrong with the science of the fiction in 'begins' and 'knight'. Begins had a machine that could evaporate water. I hate to break it to the public but human bodies are made of water. Activating that machine would have killed them.
Overall I am disappointed we won't be seeing Ledger in another movie
On the other hand, they'll probably go with some sort of name brand enemy. I'm really not interested in any of the existing gallery. I don't want Riddler or Penguin or anyone that would be an obvious letdown from the impact of the Joker. Off the top of my head, I think I'd most like to see a return of Ra's from the first movie. I'm sure that sounds a bit cliche, but Ra's in the comics has the ability ressurrect from the dead, *and* we never saw what happened to his body in the movie. That's probably too supernatural for these flicks, but it would be a good foe. In BB, he was still focused on Gotham and largely overlooked batman. If he decided that destroying Batman was the best way to bring down Gotham
As for picking another classic villain. I don't see how everyone is holding this Joker performance on a pedestal. It was a very good performance, but so was Aaron Eckheart's. The acting was good for all the characters really.
The whole mob setup was to give credibility to Dent and to show just how dedicated and 'white knight' he was. It was to set him up for his fall from grace into hell. I LOVED that they started as one thing and ended up another. AND that it took a long time to get through. Few films do this any more. They sacrifice character development for action/romance/time. We usually end up getting 'Hi I'm Harvey Dent. I'm a DA. OH GOD MY FACE! Call me Two-Face now.' This time we got to *believe in Harvey Dent* and watch this man go from his highest to his lowest of lows.
Bullet forensics: he fired several types of bullets into the same stone type to determine how the stone affected disentigration of the round. From that he was able to enter the data into his computer to reconstruct the crime scene bullet. Well, that's my take on it.
Judging from these first two movies, Nolan is going along the lines of Batman's most psychological villians. That takes Bane out of the equation (never cared for him), love her but without Joker, no Harley Quinn. Penguin would not work well in this more 'realistic' take. No Freeze either. Catwoman... She could work but I can't really think of how right off, at least nothing that would cap off Nolan's three-movie-im-done idea. NO ROBIN! Just NO!
For the third, I hope it's a REAL Riddler, not the stupid Jim Carrey version. Someone along the lines of the animated series Riddler. Someone psychologically interesting and devious. Have him working behind the scenes most of the movie, let Batman do his detective work to really figure out who's behind it all.
I think robin is one of the only things he can do thats original from his last 2 movies. I'd love to see how he does it, although Im a bit tired of that orgin story after seeing it so many times.
What I expect to happen is a movie with robin, where the main enduring bad guys are the police who are after batman, and throughout they will sprinkle in his whole rouge gallery in various plot points as he thwarts their schemes and dodges the police.