Mongol Horse Archer - Another Maquette for the pile
polycounter lvl 18
Good day to everybody! I can't seem to stop myself from doing these things ... as soon as I get half way through one, I start brewing up ideas for the next one. This installment: mongol cavalry!
Fairly quick drawing to start off with. I've found I like starting with something pretty loose so I can make stuff up as I go.
I wanted to step up the complexity a tad and do something more dynamic. This fellow is proving...involved. Not much more challenging per sae, but a lot more complex and time-consuming. I'm trying something new and with lots of different matierals in one thing: skin, fur, fabric, metal, leather... eventually stone and grass in the base.
I'm building him up in stages. Started with the horse, added the tack -- in these pictures I'm in the process of blocking out the man. Some people like to work in stages, where they finish the total main detail before they start on fine -- I'm sure this works extremely well, but I like being haphazard about it.
*click for higher res version*
Here he is as of a few minutes ago. Just looking at these photos now I've realised his torso is waaaay too thin in places. Gonna have to fix that! Luckily mongol man is removable, so working on him alone isn't a problem.
Something also a bit different with this guy, is that as it is it's not totally representative of the final composition of the sculpture. The man's back is a bit of a boring eye-trap from some angles at the moment, but I'll soon be adding a quiver and a sword which (if all goes to plan) will allow the eye to travel more easily through this area. I might also play with how he's leaning -- all of that is still changeable.
That bow is placeholder right now too. It's ending up kinda tricky to get the correct shape and not also incredibly fragile. I'm sure I'll manage eventually -- or make him a swordsman instead
Crits and comments welcome as always!
(An aside for any buffs of ancient militaries: I'm using reference, but I'm really not concerning myself with total accuracy. Just doing this for fun. Critique on accuracy if you like, but know that I'm not likely to make any major changes on its account!
)
Fairly quick drawing to start off with. I've found I like starting with something pretty loose so I can make stuff up as I go.
I wanted to step up the complexity a tad and do something more dynamic. This fellow is proving...involved. Not much more challenging per sae, but a lot more complex and time-consuming. I'm trying something new and with lots of different matierals in one thing: skin, fur, fabric, metal, leather... eventually stone and grass in the base.
I'm building him up in stages. Started with the horse, added the tack -- in these pictures I'm in the process of blocking out the man. Some people like to work in stages, where they finish the total main detail before they start on fine -- I'm sure this works extremely well, but I like being haphazard about it.
*click for higher res version*
Here he is as of a few minutes ago. Just looking at these photos now I've realised his torso is waaaay too thin in places. Gonna have to fix that! Luckily mongol man is removable, so working on him alone isn't a problem.
Something also a bit different with this guy, is that as it is it's not totally representative of the final composition of the sculpture. The man's back is a bit of a boring eye-trap from some angles at the moment, but I'll soon be adding a quiver and a sword which (if all goes to plan) will allow the eye to travel more easily through this area. I might also play with how he's leaning -- all of that is still changeable.
That bow is placeholder right now too. It's ending up kinda tricky to get the correct shape and not also incredibly fragile. I'm sure I'll manage eventually -- or make him a swordsman instead
Crits and comments welcome as always!
(An aside for any buffs of ancient militaries: I'm using reference, but I'm really not concerning myself with total accuracy. Just doing this for fun. Critique on accuracy if you like, but know that I'm not likely to make any major changes on its account!
)
Replies
Keep at it. And I like the bow instead of a sword.
Simply...amazing
I was about to comment on the same thing, but damn, them Mongols like their horses miniature, haha. Awesome stuff, love the details on the horse and the piece has a very nice motion to it. And the position and mark making you've done adds a great sense of flow to the whole structure.
What material is this in? I'm going to assume it's a polymer like the super rigid super sculpey.
out of curiosity, how many of these have you done? Did you ever (or do you currently?) make maquettes professionally? You obviously have a huge amount of experience with this medium. Mucho inspirado.
Perhaps its just his headgear but...the head looks a bit massive compared to the rest of the body I think. He's a mongol, so I can buy stocky, but the legs & upper body seem undersized. You've already noticed this yourself a bit I think though.
Im personally having a bit of an issue with sculpy as it stays softer than I like when I move on to work on other areas. I find myself holding the model and screwing up areas I've already worked over...guess maybe I should just finish a section and bake it...wash, rinse, repeat.
Why not make the bow from balsa wood and varnish it nicely? That will add some cool factor to the piece and also make it a little less fragile
@scoobydoofus: everytime you think you're finsihed with an area, you could also bake it, to harden it
Agreed his body needs to be thicker. It's odd how you sometimes don't notice it until you see it in photos -- the fact just leaped out at me as soon as I looked at these, but until then I was thinking it was fine! I think I'll end up shaving down the back of the helmet as well -- it is a bit too bulky at the moment. Hopefully that should take care of his proportion issues.
I had a bit of trouble deciding how big to make the horse. Mongol horses are really small (technically ponies, but I hear the nomads who love them hate that word). By the same token, it does read as a bit wrong to most of us around here. I chose to make it more in keeping with the actual things, but it's a decision I'm gonna have to justify to people asking.
Spanks: The whole thing is supported by 1/6 armature wire -- the legs' wire is looped around inside the base to add stability, then covered with a thin layer of sculpey and baked to make it even more rigid.
ScoobyDoofus: That does tend to happen, I'm afraid
Neo-God: It's a roughly 60/40 mix of Super Sculpey Firm and regular Super Sculpey respectively.
Xaltar: That sounds like a good idea, but I'm afraid I don't have the first clue how to go about doing that! Do you know of any good tutorials online?
Ferg: This is actually my fourth maquette. I just make these for fun at the moment... it's nice to have something artsy to do without being stuck in front of a computer. I find them actually a lot easier than making a good drawing of the same thing -- the only difficult bit is learning the materials and how they act. Sculpey's pretty forgiving, so that's not too big a deal.
You can use water to weaken the fibers and work then by hand. Rubbing the nail down the fibers on the surface of a thin cut (like, a bow!) will weaken these even more, hence the curve will remain when it dries. I would suspect you can use a mixture of water and glue to lock the curve even more too. (I did a series of curves very similar to bows for a maquette some years ago, but I cant remember how I stiffened the bits...)
BUT you could easily do the bow in sculpey still : by making a guide of the desired curvature out of a woodcut or from a bit of sculpey that you cover in tinfoil. Then you shape a thin strip of sculpey on top of that, bake, and you will get a stiff bow of the desired curvature.
Great sculpture btw! Makes me want to finish my second one haha!
I just hope you won't overdetail the riders and the horses hair - I would love to see them stay rough and abstract, as opposed to individually detailled.
problem with balsa is that it tends to shatter if you don't cut it along the fibers (using a cutter for instance) so you have to use a mini electric saw and even then, on such a small piece it's fairly risky unless you protect the balsa with a layer of plywood shaped like the piece you want to cut on each side of the piece, cut it a bit wider than the piece and gently remove the remaining parts with sandpaper.
it will indeed roughly keep its form once dry, but back in the days, I was using a mix or white glue (liquid glue for wood that takes 24 hours to dry) and water (about 50/50) you can also use a diluted epoxy resin mix, applied with a soft brush while the balsa is still drying, epoxy will also help solidifying the balsa.
great sculpt, can't wait to see more
1. Buy a 4 - 6mm thick balsa wood board and simply cut your bow design out of it then use sandpaper to smooth its edjes (should take about 5 mins to do). The problem with this method is that you will have a curved bow but the grain of the wood will not be following the contours making the bow very flimsy where the grain crosses the shaft as opposed to running along it.
2. This is the better option. Basicly as above you get a 4-6mm board then cut a strip off that follows the grain. Then you need to make a basic mold of the inside curve of the bow that you can warp the wood around. Soak the wood in watered down wood glue untill its saturated as well as it can be. Then you will need to bend the wood carefully over your mold and use string to wrap it to the mold. Leave it to dry then unwrap and sand the edges as before. You will probably break at least one piece of wood in the process of doing this so I recommend bending 2 or 3 strips on the mold to save having to wait for glue to dry every time.
Once you have your desired shape simply get some varnish (laquer as I think its called in some countries) and give it a few coats using a clean nail varnish aplicator brush. You can even brush on some wood stain to get a color you like beforehand. Once your varnish is dry and nice and shiny you just need to wrap some thread arround the appropriate areas to get that authentic look. Apply a thin coat of varnish over the thread to hold it in place.
Should be a fun little project
*Click for higher res version*
Jeebus, that took a stupid amount of time O_o Coming up on 3 months. As you can see, I decided not to paint him. He's got too many materials and awkward nooks and crannies to be painted easily, I think. Plus I'm a bit sick of looking at him.
I did end up sticking with the bow -- in spite of the lovely suggestion of wood for it, since I decided not to paint him the wood would've just clashed and looked weird. The epoxy putty I used ended up doing an ok job. There are a lot of things about him I'm less than ecstatic about, but I think the overall result is pretty good. I need to work at finishing these things to a higher standard. I know the proportions are a bit wonky in places, and the detailing is a bit rough, but oh well. The sense of movement works pretty well, which is what I was mainly trying to get with this one.
Again, I learned a bunch! I'm going to do some more drawings to pin down what I'm doing next, and then on to the next challenge!
Extremely beautiful piece. Seriously Tully, you need to make a ceramic/metal casting of that damn thing. I'll buy it.
Being originally from Asia I can vouch for that...most of the time it's the Western and prolly Arab horses that are a little more statuesque...
And yeah great ideas about making the bow from Balsa wood...makes it stands out too though they are a little but more expensive to get..at least here imo.
Vassago: I'm not sure it's possible to cast this how it is now! I'm pretty sure you have to set up the sculpt while you're making it in order to make a proper cast. I've got a basic understanding of mold making and could probably make a go of it if I set my mind to it from the beginning. However, it's a messy but exact process. I've not got any back garden or garage to do it in so not sure I'm up for it, but one day perhaps!
Toomas: Yeah, mongolian horses are really small. Ponies by any official standard, but I hear Mongolian people really hate the word. I wrestled with the scale decision a bit since I knew it would read as "too small" to us westerners who are unacquainted with the breed, but in the end I decided to go with the more realistic option. Dunno why really... I knew I'd keep having to explain myself!
you've most definitely convinced me to pick up the sculpy once I'm ready to take a break from acrylics