Need rigging advice (3Ds Max+pics)
polycounter lvl 10
So, I've created this character for a school project and it's all going to hell - I can't rig his goddamn shoulders for the life of me.
My question is this: Should I remodel his shoulders from scratch, or is it a problem with the way I'm trying to rig the model? I mean, do you guys think the shoulders are completely unriggable, or is it just that I suck at animation/rigging (which I do anyway)?
Halp!
Any ideas/comments/paintovers are appreciated.
My question is this: Should I remodel his shoulders from scratch, or is it a problem with the way I'm trying to rig the model? I mean, do you guys think the shoulders are completely unriggable, or is it just that I suck at animation/rigging (which I do anyway)?
Halp!
Any ideas/comments/paintovers are appreciated.
Replies
- The arm pits seem kind of high, but it really depends on where you place the joint.
- The shape of the shoulder is kind of off, the deltoid you have is really bulky on the top of the shoulder. This will look weird when you bend the arm. The bulk of the deltoid shouldn't straddle the joint it should start at it. It would help if it blended smoother into the trapezius.
- You'll need more loops on the shoulder blades and back as well as down the rib cage. Also think about the arms coming forward and back as if running. The rib cage needs to hold its shape.
- The shoulders are not areas you want to save on polys.
I'm opening my anatomy book and starting to work on your comments, thanks a lot mate
BTW, here's the back of the model, dunno if it helps though..
I've been kinda working using this when restructuring the shoulders (they started out even worse than they now are) but I couldn't make much out of it I guess.
It's best to ignore the biped's geometry and think of it as straight bones and envelopes. Putting the bipeds deltoid in what looks like the correct place doesn't always mean the pivot is in the right place.
- I would lower the armpit and make it a collapsing joint, kind of like the backs of knees. which would let you move the bicep pivot higher up into the shoulder to help deform the overactive deltoid.
- If you don't remodel the armpit then the joint needs to be moved out above the center of the arm pit. Otherwise when the bicep comes into the body it will pull too much of the body or the arm will clip into the body depending on how you weight it. Either way is not ideal.
Your geometry isn't ideal (alright, it isn't very good but as Vig said, most of us have rigged worse), but you will never get great shoulder deformation without deformation bones. If you have time and want to learn, remodel the shoulder. If you need a quick fix and don't need a ton of animation, add in more bones.
Also don't forget to animate the clavicle and any deformation bones as needed. Cheat! But learn.
http://www.animationartist.com/2003/08_aug/tutorials/rigging_anatomy.htm
But keep it in mind for later
Rob, I'll try to go about like we do in the homeland and do some cheating as well (for good measure), you mean I should add a twist bone in the upper arm bone, right?
Vig, thanks for the tut but yeah, looks like I'd better stick with biped at this point. And damn, it looks hard.
'Cheating' would be adding one or two 'Xtra' bones (if you are using Max 2008), or just parenting a point or two to the collar, and skinning to and animating those. You could manually move and rotate those bones to get whatever deformation looks good.
I consider 'cheating' adding in a bone where another solution is the more correct one (fixing the mesh). Twists aren't cheating because there is no way to produce proper deformation without them, the same way a more involved shoulder setup isn't cheating. If there is a problem of the shoulder that doesn't behave correctly (such as under the arm) cheating would be adding a bone specifically to control that deformation, which at this point, may be a viable alternative depending on deadlines.