id Software's game RAGE rated TEEN Online petition
polycounter lvl 18
Sup guys, I don't know if this has been pointed out before, and if so I apologize. Id Software is apparently making their next game rated TEEN which is worrysome because their games have always excelled at creating a frightening environment through the use of gore and horror elements in their games.
When I first played DOOM it was this feel, the combat, environment and the weight the violence played in the game to make you feel in a world that is unforgiving and cruel. I love that vibe I get from id Software's games. Yeah DOOM 3 could've been better but to me it was still a good experience.
So now we have id Software apparently doing something special with RAGE. Vehicles finially which is great. Its a new IP and is supposed to be free roaming. It also takes place in a post apocalyptic world. Sounds promising but I got discouraged when I read this...
"We did make the decision that, 'Yeah, the game would probably be a little bit more fun with exploding bodies, but it won't kill us to keep it down at a T rating," - John Carmack
So John Carmack who has done so much for the industry admits the game would be more fun with exploding bodies yet we aren't going to have that? Makes no sense to me.. well it does. It appears that id is trying to appeal to a younger market which reminds me of Star Wars right off the top of my head. I always saw Id Software, Raven Software, and EPIC Games as my go to guys for extreme violence. I liked it that way.
So if you feel that this doesn't make sense as I do and will hurt the game please sign the online petition I created. It will only take you like 20 seconds. I set it up so emails don't show and all that good stuff.
I'd like to hear your thoughts. TES Oblivion was even rated mature. Thats how far id Software is going to have to cut back to get its TEEN rating. I think they will be out of their element and it will suck.
http://www.petitiononline.com/bfg9000/petition.html
If you feel the same way forward this to whoever loves violence in their games. Like to hear your thoughts.
-armagon
When I first played DOOM it was this feel, the combat, environment and the weight the violence played in the game to make you feel in a world that is unforgiving and cruel. I love that vibe I get from id Software's games. Yeah DOOM 3 could've been better but to me it was still a good experience.
So now we have id Software apparently doing something special with RAGE. Vehicles finially which is great. Its a new IP and is supposed to be free roaming. It also takes place in a post apocalyptic world. Sounds promising but I got discouraged when I read this...
"We did make the decision that, 'Yeah, the game would probably be a little bit more fun with exploding bodies, but it won't kill us to keep it down at a T rating," - John Carmack
So John Carmack who has done so much for the industry admits the game would be more fun with exploding bodies yet we aren't going to have that? Makes no sense to me.. well it does. It appears that id is trying to appeal to a younger market which reminds me of Star Wars right off the top of my head. I always saw Id Software, Raven Software, and EPIC Games as my go to guys for extreme violence. I liked it that way.
So if you feel that this doesn't make sense as I do and will hurt the game please sign the online petition I created. It will only take you like 20 seconds. I set it up so emails don't show and all that good stuff.
I'd like to hear your thoughts. TES Oblivion was even rated mature. Thats how far id Software is going to have to cut back to get its TEEN rating. I think they will be out of their element and it will suck.
http://www.petitiononline.com/bfg9000/petition.html
If you feel the same way forward this to whoever loves violence in their games. Like to hear your thoughts.
-armagon
This discussion has been closed.
Replies
Of course, it always does suck to see a developer specifically impeding the creative development of a game in order to get a lower rating, it's nessesary at times.
I'm just worried cause the type of game they're making. Kenneth Scott is doing his usual badass mutant zombie creatures and it doesn't fit to me. Sure they can do what they want. And I applaud them for going in a new direction. I just know we are going to get a rocket launcher in this game. Its from Id so yeah definitly and its going to be very odd when they don't explode.
I think you guys mistook my love for violence with not changing anything, so I just wanted to clear that up. But check out the footage if you haven't already and the game just looks like it needs gore in areas. If you look close at the id tech 5 trailer there is a really cool clip of some really twisted.. I'm guessing things that were exposed to nasty radiation that would blend into the DOOM 3 crowd no problem. So for me it just doesn't fit. If they want to go TEEN thats fine but what they've shown doesn't fit IMO and I think that lack of consistancy is going to leave an empty feeling in combat.
It's their game. An online petition will change nothing.
You may as well create a petition against icebergs.
lol. I'm making a petition to fight demons in rage one at a time in narrow metal tunnels, because doom 3 was good.
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huh? I think you're trying to make fun of me. I just didn't want to slam DOOM 3s gameplay alright. So I said it was a good experience. I liked DOOM 3 cause I was into the art. Yeah the close quarters combat with bad AI wasn't for me. Agreed. mixed feeling on that game I guess.
Case and point: Call of duty 4. Some of the most intense and awesome combat in an FPS in a while, and they had VERY little blood.
Teen rating means more sales. I'm sure it will be awesome.
Maybe Carmack knows something we dont. Like that they're gonna start cracking down on M ratings soon and REALLY not selling to teens anymore.
It's ids decision, but it still brings a tear to the eye when a dev known for its fucking awesome gorehaus games decides they're gonna try and appeal to a broader audience. IMO, even if your previous successes were gutmulching bloodshitting nastygrams, but they haven't been hitting the same success they used to, it usually lies in the gameplay end of things. Gears of War (albeit with an expensive, and perfectly executed marketing campaign.) managed to rope in a huge audience, many of course under the M level, just because it was a fucking great game. One of the things that made Gears great was the gore.
If RAGE were nothing but a kart racer, I'd see the purpose behind it, but paff paff smoke squibs coming out of a guy after being shot point blank with a shotty makes Uly cry.
And whether or not you say you care about gore, your brain is still subconciously saying, "that was a sweet kill", or "it looks like I pushed him over with air bullets".
PS. This is a good mix of opinion and pure, absolutely true fact. (Coz I said so.) Feedback doesn't have to be delivered through gore, even a nice crosshair flash can do it, but when the setting cries for it, you cry if it's not there...
Edit: It's like torture porn movies. Some are shallow, but they're still fucking cool to see! (Depending on the person.) Then you can have a movie that uses it sparingly, or practically never, and it can be way better. But when you have a great movie with gracious amounts of gore, ala Alien? BEST MOVIE EVAR ACHIEVED 200 GAMERPOINTS
Oh come on man... I love gore as much as anybody else (probably more) but less gore is not going to make a less fun game.
Case and point: Call of duty 4. Some of the most intense and awesome combat in an FPS in a while, and they had VERY little blood.
Teen rating means more sales. I'm sure it will be awesome.
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I think you guys are missing my point. I'm not saying I'm not buying it or condeming it but take a close look at the game they're actually making. COD4 doesn't have evil mutant things. AND COD 4 was rated M as well. So I guess they have to get rid of that little bit of blood that pops out when you get a head shot which is useful in combat. Its a visual cue. And its awesome. Its just the characters they have in the game shown so far.. I don't see how it won't seem hollow to not be able to splatter those guys.
I'm in the same boat, Armagon.
It's ids decision, but it still brings a tear to the eye when a dev known for its fucking awesome gorehaus games decides they're gonna try and appeal to a broader audience. IMO, even if your previous successes were gutmulching bloodshitting nastygrams, but they haven't been hitting the same success they used to, it usually lies in the gameplay end of things. Gears of War (albeit with an expensive, and perfectly executed marketing campaign.) managed to rope in a huge audience, many of course under the M level, just because it was a fucking great game. One of the things that made Gears great was the gore.
If RAGE were nothing but a kart racer, I'd see the purpose behind it, but paff paff smoke squibs coming out of a guy after being shot point blank with a shotty makes Uly cry. : ( Might'a been pushed on them by Activision, who knows, in the end though, it really does seem like a short term solution. From what I gathered from the few screens and trailers we've seen, why the fuck is this T rated anyway? Something just isn't right. Short term solution for short term gains. : ( Whether or not your morally uncomfortable with the issue or not, if your game is great, the ESRB rating means shit to sales. Kids will get their hands on the game one way or the other.
And whether or not you say you care about gore, your brain is still subconciously saying, "that was a sweet kill", or "it looks like I pushed him over with air bullets". : (
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Well put. Thats what I was missing in my reasons was the visual feedback. Its a response to your interaction with these enemies. Its your quick reward for killing that thing to watch it pop. If they can have armor and sparks coming off of what your killing that would be a fine substitute.
But that won't work for everything and why not do what has worked so well in the past and build on it. Gore isn't the game guys. Of course they can do what they want. But you make an FPS with all these elements and then you expect to see it.
I don't think you should dwell on the "exploding bodies" comment too much. I'm sure it was just a random off-hand remark that didn't actually refer to anything specific they had to take out of the game... probably just the first thing that came to mind when he tried to come up with an example of something that would give the game an "M" rating.
I think gore is overrated an overused anyway. Make things look painful instead by making good use of sound and clever dynamic impact animations.
1) We don't know enough about the game to say how much we'll miss 'exploding bodies'. DOOM wouldn't be the same without the gore, but since this is a new property that's significantly focused on driving rather than pure FPS combat, maybe we won't miss the gibs and such.
2) If you do want to change the game, it sounds like an excellent reason to make a mod
Slum did you work on Quake 4?
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No, but I'm working on wolfenstein. On that note, my opinion has nothing to do with the fact I'm working on an id game. Also, I know nothing more about Rage than you guys.
I'm not surprised Rawkstar has stayed out of this thread. heh.
This is why I don't post this early.Only bad things happen! XD
I don't like the idea of any company in the industry bending to the will of 10,000 soccer moms powered by Jack Tampon rants, crying for less violence. Make your games, get your ratings whatever they may be and move on.
I also don't like the idea of inflating your rating when you don't need to. Its between id and the ESRB, if they can deliver a good game to a wider audience I don't see that as a bad thing. It's always nice when you can have your customers acquire your product through legal means.
The only people I see signing this petition are people who felt deeply wounded when a clerk said "sorry son, you need your mom to come down and buy this, its for mature audiences only". Now being of an age that doesn't happen they feel like a rite of passage is being stripped away. Tough tacos, welcome to life, its short and it sucks.
Keep in mind that life is short, do you really want to spend your time on this?
Something tells me id isn't done with its gore fests just yet, but I don't think it would hurt to grow their company in a new direction while still supporting the old tried and true. If you want RAGE to be a gore fest, go ahead and make it that way on your own time I'm sure it will be a big hit with the mod community.
Who can blame them for wanting to try something new, after how many years of delivering pretty much the same stories recycled in new tech?
and man online petitions are really the lamest things ever made. grow a set man. if you are going to petition something. make it something that fucking matters.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/rhinokey/
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signed. because thats seriously a more usefull petition than the orriginal.
"4 Total Signatures"
you guys are totally not convincing anyone with:
"4 Total Signatures"
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Haha...Rock on...
Yeah who cares really. It's there game. If they want to make a barbie dream home designer then it's their choice. I wouldn't want to work on that but it isn't up to us now is it.
Rage looks like a sweet racing game and I really don't care if it has gore or not. I'm looking for epic megatexture vistas and top notch Baja style racing action.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/rhinokey/
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i would also like to point out that my petition already has more sigs..
I have to say though i think its an odd move considering i've read stuff about M rated games selling better.
k.
You may as well create a petition against icebergs.
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rofl
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/no_more_icebergsin2009/
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yeahh.. thats just stupid
i don't think its bending to the will of anyone besides wanting to make a little more cash.
and man online petitions are really the lamest things ever made. grow a set man. if you are going to petition something. make it something that fucking matters.
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What matters to some doesn't matter to others. A few friends I've talked to think its important to stick with violence. Maybe I can clarify. To me id Software was always the game dev you could count on to make really violent games. It bothers me that has seemed to change. Given some of the enemies that come at you in the game, I believe mild gore doesn't fit. So I created the petition to see how many agree with me. You are quite welcome to not sign it of course but I really don't get the insults.
You need to mature a bit, I'm sorry. If you think my stance is stupid thats fine, but back it up with a reason. Insulting me does what? You didn't hurt my feelings. Just calm down a bit and discuss the issue.. prove me wrong by examples or something.
Its also John Carmacks statement in that he says yeah the game would probably be more fun with exploding bodies but a TEEN rating won't kill us. If its more fun then why not do it? The only conclusion I can draw is that they are trying to target a larger audience. I think they should be aiming ofr the most enjoyable experience possible.
Personally, I hope they do something other than exploding bodies and such like they always do, might be a nice change of pace. Then again, I have no interest in pod racing through the choco-mountains.
Edit: Seems times are a changin' a bit as M rated games are apparently selling more (at least according to some studies). But certainly as recently as Oblivion a few years ago, 'Teen' was always considered to be the safer sale.
Strange times.
By no possible definition is an M rating a larger market because T rated games are available to more people.
From a strict potential buys vs. actual buyers, i think splattering bodies versus getting a T rating is trivial. Good on id, but then again I don't have a lot of emotions to invest in their effect on my nostalgia. I give everyone in this thread a T rating for caring so much about the topic.
To the original poster, way to blow a direct quote out of proportion
I'd much rather rant about the foreseeable overuse of zombie closets and mind numbingly repetitive gameplay.
"selling more", not "larger market". big difference there.
From a strict potential buys vs. actual buyers, i think splattering bodies versus getting a T rating is trivial. Good on id, but then again I don't have a lot of emotions to invest in their effect on my nostalgia. I give everyone in this thread a T rating for caring so much about the topic.
To the original poster, way to blow a direct quote out of proportion
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So are you saying we are going to see gore in the game? My guess is we aren't. So all I did was quote him, throw out and support my opinion that it should be there. Like Uly said. "If the setting cries for it, then you cry when its not there" or something to that effect.
Look at the world they are creating... Halo 1-3, Bioshock, Half Life (all of them), Gears of War, Far Cry, COD 4, Mass Effect, Perfect Dark Zero, TES Oblivion are all games that had different ranges of gore. Some a lot more then others. The developers of these sucessful games chose a level of gore that suited their game.
Given the imagery above in the RAGE screens I think the level of gore needed exceeds a T rating. I may be blowing it out of proportion, I'm trying my best =D.
Wow, so much drama over a rating?
I'd much rather rant about the foreseeable overuse of zombie closets and mind numbingly repetitive gameplay.
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heh, I think they learned from that. I really hope so! I could almost see the triggers they setup in the hallways to spawn Imps behind me. =D True gameplay is more important but thats difficult to evaluate right now.