Q (ZBrush): Importing UVed mesh not allowed...

rybeck

This is not a first time I see error message, but it surely doesn't leave a hint for me this time..

Workflow was as following:
- System: Core 2 [2.4Ghz] / Windows XP 64 bit / 4GB RAM
(1) Open 'zmapper_troll.ZTL' in ZB 3.1 (available @ Pixologic :: ZBrush :: Download Center)
(2) The model showed Double dotted line in frame view so I fixed as shown in here ( ZBrushCentral - Dotted lines on wireframe?)
(3) The model has 6 SubD levels, and UVed already (but with minor overlapping (red spots))
(4) In order to fix the minor overlapping area, exported the mesh in SubD level 1 as an obj (Mrg ON, Grp OFF; All ImportExport prefrerence options were OFF)
(5) In 3ds Max 9/sp2, imported the obj with Guruware Im/exporter (Single mesh ON, Flip ZY ON, Texture Corrdinate ON, Smoothing Group ON, Ohters OFF)
(6) Having the mesh as Editable mesh (without converting to other i.e. Editable poly or whatnot), Unwrap UVW modifyer was applied, and fixed the minor overlapping part.
(7) Once UVs are fixed, exported the mesh as obj with Guruware Im/Exporter (Flip YZ ON, Texture Coordinate ON, Smoothing Group ON, Target PC/WIN ON, Precision as "6," other OFF)
(8) In ZB 3.1, as the Ztool (zmapper_troll.ZTL) is current tool, confirm it is on lowest SUbD level (level 1), and tried to import the obj file.
Then I got this message...




Since fixed UV mesh wasn't allowed to Import, I had to open it as 'Import,' and it reveals 2 more polys added, somehow..(1684 to 1686) bah...



This happens even I don't touch the UV at all, just import and export through max.
Even further, I tried to FBX converter trick (export obj from ZB, convert to fbx, import fbx into max, export mesh as fbx from max, convert fbx to obj, and import obj into ZB), but it yields double the poly #. (Turned off all options for the process)

2nd part, quick export and reimport didn't change the poly #, so ZB part seems not to cause this...


So, what would be causing this increasing poly #?

This seems just endless mystery story...




Rybeck

rybeck

As I was getting response from original post from ZBC, here I want to share it, and of course still will be great if you guys can add up more insights if there is another work around using MAX..
To summarize, ZB-MAX pipeline is BROKEN if the mesh has any tris, if I was fully understood... The way around atm is use maya to detour im/export process.


Rybeck

spitty

i used to do this sort of thing with zbrush 2 all the time. i'll try to do it tonight with zbrush 3.1. have you experimented with changing max's obj exporter settings between quad and poly?

rybeck

Hey, Spitty.. thanks for your input.

I've been experimented multiple combination over this matter, which including "on/off 'quad'" and / or "on/off 'tri'" (just for this setting, I had to do it 4 times for test, just for FYI (quad ON/tri OFF, quad OFF/tri OFF, quad OFF/tri ON, and quad ON/tri ON)) Of course to make test with every single possible combination need to be done under precise control, but I am sort of on/off for testing since it consumed too much time to do so...
Also I've been on ZBC for awhile to observe/gather further information about this specific trouble (pipeline between ZB 3.1 to 3dsMax 9/sp2), and found myself no where to get 'the answer' that will solve the problem I've been experienced for past almost a month.. bah...
Ultimate detour was either "using maya to im/export" or "using UVmapper (free version is avaialbe)"
Confirmed both are acceptable patches, but leave some technical jargons, especially UVmapper free ware.. Editing UV in that apps doesn't make a sense atm...
Hope to hear your test result, if you can help me out to solve 'ZB 3.1 to 3ds Max/sp2 pipeline'

best,

Rybeck

spitty

i was able to get this pipeline to work for me, but i am using max 7. i'm just using the standard obj exporter that comes with max. it sounds like you're using something different?

have you checked to see when the extra polys appear? what's the polycount in 3dsmax? is the 3dsmax exporter causing the extra polys?

my mesh does have tris btw. the mesh i exported from zbrush and re imported was actually a sub tool, but i doubt that matters. i was kind of surprised this worked with sub tools.

rybeck

spitty,

Good for you if the pipeline is working.
In order to control the test in different version of max, I need your favor to use the Same ztool as starting point.

-Download 'the Ztool' from the link below. (which you can skip step 1 and 2 from 1st post)
http://rapidshare.com/files/87934137/zmapper_troll_dotted_line_fixed.ZTL.html
-Load the ztool from ZB (which version are you using? You didn't mention in previous post..)
-Export from lowest level (1) with following options (Mrg ON, Grp OFF; All ImportExport prefrerence options were OFF)
(If you are prefer to use other setting, then post it please...)
-Run just the Im/export process with your tools without bothering UV (Max 7 right? BTW, did you install any Service pack? I found that it seems a matter at certain point, which I can't clarify ATM)
-Back to ZB, confirm the subD level is lowest (1), then import the obj (that just exported from max)
-Compare the result you got with following reports that I re-created aweful process of doom..


Here is recap the situation where I am in...
(1) Default max Im/Exporter test (*Result --> Mesh explode once it's switched to higher subD level.. Yeah famous 'Exploding issue')

(used import settings as shown above)


(Poly # as shown here... The mesh (Editiable Mesh) hasn't been altered at all)


(used export settings as shown above)


(Import the Obj into ZB (in subD level 1) was alright. Since level 1 mesh was changed, clicked 'Switch' under Morph Target section in Tool palette)


(FYI, I'm still holding that slider in level 2, but...)


(As soon as release the slider, it exploded...)


(Import the obj's poly # reads 1684.. hasn't been changed)

(2) Guruware Im/Exporter test (*Result --> Obj that exported from max (version 9 with sp2), somehow, added 2 more polys, and not allowed to get imported into ZB..)

(used import settings as shown above)


(Poly # as shown here... The mesh (Editiable Mesh) hasn't been altered at all)


(used export settings as shown above)


(As expected, the obj is not loadable...)


(Import the obj's poly # reads 1686.. It's been changed...)

(3) ZB (3.1) Im/export test (*Result --> ZB Im/Export process won't affect increased Poly #... Apprently, Im/Export between ZB 3.1 and max 9 is IMPOSSIBLE...)

(Ztool I used as starting point (download link is on top of the post) Poly # reads 1684)


(Obj exported out of ZB and just imported back in order to cancle out ZB doesn't affect on increaed poly #)


(No problem to switch in higher subD level)

spitty

doh, i guess i spoke too soon and said i got this working. i forgot to change to subdivision 2. i have that same problem with crazy polys everywhere. sorry if i got yer hopes up

i did an experiment were i did this whole process using the 2nd subdivision instead of the lowest. the 2nd sub is all quads, and i was able to use the guruware exporter without it adding any polys. but it still had the problem with crazy polys when i changed the subdivision.

i wonder if there is some kind of work around using retopology? couldn't project the details from the original zbrush tool onto a new version of the model with fixed uvs? in this case it doesn't matter if your new model has a different number of polys. i don't totally understand the retopology workflow, so this could be wrong

rybeck

I got another 'rare' response with suggestion from another forum, and it was to try Editable poly instead of Editable mesh.
Although I've already tried it, WTH, I just did it again.
There are some more tweaks involved in order to make 'this case' (I'm afraid to say this is ultimate solution for pipeline between ZB 3.1 to 3ds Max 9/sp2), and thankfully, Spitty, your idea was also one of them... using 2nd SubD level instead of lowest (1) for sake of having perfect quad mesh.
I assume 'retopology' will definately work as far as it will be all quad, but I didn't want to spent extra on them. Instead, substituting 2nd SubD level over lowest level works alike charm.

Speaking of Im/Export setting from ZB 3.1, it really doen's matter as far as you keep track them (and use same setting for both im/export) unless you use something "exotic" (say, the one that never suggested to use from tutorials all over the internet)

From max, as I mentioned in the beginning if this post, using Editable poly was winner for 'this case.' Didn't apply nothing, but convert the mesh that exported from ZB 3.1. into Editable Poly...
Export setting was slightly modifyed: # of Digits was replaced as '12' for '6,' but I found it doesn't matter. Both settings were fine in 'this case.'

Back to ZB 3.1... You need to play around with followings:
(1) Uncrease
(2) Reproject Higher Subdiv
(3) Store Morph Target
(4) Switch Geometry



Now I guess I deserve a bottle of cold beer..