Internet vs Scientology
polycounter lvl 18
This has been going on for a week and there isn't a thread yet?
Seriously:
http://digg.com/world_news/Anonymous_Releases_New_Press_Release
I could go through the whole history of the situation, but it's more fun to figure out yourselves.
Anyway, See you guys on the 10th!
edit: my avatar is broken
Seriously:
http://digg.com/world_news/Anonymous_Releases_New_Press_Release
I could go through the whole history of the situation, but it's more fun to figure out yourselves.
Anyway, See you guys on the 10th!
edit: my avatar is broken
Replies
Persecuting an entire religion because of the acts of a few people within it is stupid. If they do in fact break the law, or some human rights, then the law will deal with it. However, simply because you oppose the way the people within the religion live their lives, gives you no right to fuck with them. That is bigotry. Live and let live. It is not stupid to have faith in something that you cannot prove, so lets not get into why their religion is silly to you. Most all religions are silly to some other people.
Persecuting an entire religion because of the acts of a few people within it is stupid. If they do in fact break the law, or some human rights, then the law will deal with it. However, simply because you oppose the way the people within the religion live their lives, gives you no right to fuck with them. That is bigotry. Live and let live. It is not stupid to have faith in something that you cannot prove, so lets not get into why their religion is silly to you. Most all religions are silly to some other people.
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Go do some research. This isn't a religion, and it isn't harmless.
Do you understand what "clearing the planet" means?
(last video) Tom cruise wants to either convert you, or to destroy you.
Also, why are they dead? And what about operation freak out. Is the law going to do something about scientology? Why not just talk to the critics? They feel very safe. And OSA is just a PR firm.
Get educated, it's the only weapon you have against Scientology.
It is not the place of independent groups to persecute an entire religion because they dont like the way they think.
Tulkamir, you stated that you think that it should be "looked into." What exactly do you want done? Government employees whose job it is to monitor the church services? Phone taps in case they decide to try something? Or should we just throw rocks at them and hope they go away?
And yes, it is a religion. Just like christianity, which is based on just as unbelievable premises. As far as it being harmless, there's no such thing as a harmless person and certainly not such a thing as a harmless relgion. That doesn't give you the right to persecute them.
Frankly, I'm extremely worried about people's views on this.
If you don't care about your freedom of speech that's ok, but I am going to defend mine.
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And yes, it is a religion. Just like christianity, which is based on just as unbelievable premises.
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Do you have to pay for each chapter in the bible? And be forbidden to share it with anyone who hasn't also paid? Does a copy of the Qu'ran cost 32 dollars? When you talk to a rabbi, are the secrets you share with him used for fucking blackmail?
COSTS: http://www.xenu.net/archive/CoS_prices.html
First off, I care very much about my freedoms and the freedoms of my everyone else around, regardless of whether I like them or not. I especially care about Freedom of Religion, which Im hoping you've heard of somewhere along the line.
It's a shame that there are some people out there involved with scientology who may be murderers. I am sure that our criminal justice system has done it's best to find the guilty parties and punish them, and I have no intentions of going through court documents to see just how good a job they did, so lets not get into the "who got away with what" game when we dont know any of the real facts. The same goes for Operation Snow White. I'm quite sure the government can handle prosecuting thieves on its own.
Also, my family gives a ton of money to their church (catholic). People are free to spend money however they like.
Now moz, my main point. I dont begrudge you your right to badmouth a group of people. I do however take great offense at the idea that you would be willing to act on your opinions and follow annoynymous in its attempt to "destroy" scientology.
So what is it, do you really support an independent group persecuting an entire relgion? Or are you just running your mouth?
I don't really know how I feel about this. Scientology is a pretty fucked up "religion" but people should have a right to voluntarily screw themselves over. But... scientologists didn't get the chance to volunteer themselves, they're getting fucked without their knowledge. That's not cool.
Before you get into scientology, perhaps you should look at all the children who are raised christian. The ones who are told they'll go to hell if they dont go to church. The ones who are disowned if they leave the relgion. They brain-wash their kids from birth and baptism. Where's the choice in that?
Every religion is manipulative. Every person is responsible for how they live their lives. No one is allowed to tell people that they aren't allowed to believe something.
Also, you seened to ignore the fact that anonymous is attacking the organisation, not the religion.
Is attacking radical islam attacking islam?
Now, I'm sorry, but there are way too many parallels with cults like Aum and Scientology to allow one that has gotten as large as scientology go unchecked. People are scared to critisize it. That is a bad sign.
http://www.whyaretheydead.net/abortions.html
Also, you seened to ignore the fact that anonymous is attacking the organisation, not the religion.
Is attacking radical islam attacking islam?
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hey moz, answer me. Do you believe that you and other individuals should take action against them? What actions should you take? Justify vigilantism. Explain your procedures to determine the guilt and radical-ness of your victims. Or are you just going to attack them all?
Also, neither you nor annonymous ever mentioned attacking that radical elements of scientology. No, all I heard was attacking the whole thing. Whats the difference between the organization and the religion anyways?
Also, neither you nor annonymous ever mentioned attacking that radical elements of scientology. No, all I heard was attacking the whole thing. Whats the difference between the organization and the religion anyways?
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Did you watch all of their videos? THey specifically said they were not attacking the religion and that individual members should feel free to follow whatever religious beliefs they want. They said they are attacking the organization.
aesir, by being looked into I mean more serious than what you are talking about. People said the exact same shit as you about Aum, who in one attack killed atleast 58 people and affected/injured between 1000 and 5000 more with sarin gas. Before that the cult had been attempted two other attacks with sarin gas, and the cult had experimenting with developing weapons from assult rifles to nuclear arms for years before. The evidence was all over, however people were timid to critisize them or seriously look into them because they were a religion. Combine that with the fact that anyone who critisized them was attacked agressively by the cult and you got a cult which was able to build unchecked.
Now, I'm sorry, but there are way too many parallels with cults like Aum and Scientology to allow one that has gotten as large as scientology go unchecked. People are scared to critisize it. That is a bad sign.
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Homeland security is pretty absurd already. I have no doubts that if scientolgists are planning secret attacks, that they'll be dealing with it.
You said you wanted more serious measures taken than wiretaps and having government officials monitoring church services. What exactly do you want done? Shouldn't we also wiretap all the muslims in the states? After all, many of them are radicals aren't they. Do you know why we won't wiretap all the muslims? Because it's wrong. Because it's unconstitutional.
I hear people complain constantly about Bush and how he is taking our freedoms away from us, but then I hear all this about how he hasn't taken enough away.
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Also, neither you nor annonymous ever mentioned attacking that radical elements of scientology. No, all I heard was attacking the whole thing. Whats the difference between the organization and the religion anyways?
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Did you watch all of their videos? THey specifically said they were not attacking the religion and that individual members should feel free to follow whatever religious beliefs they want. They said they are attacking the organization.
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What does that even mean? They only attack the priests? You think there can be good followers of scientology, but all of the priests are evil and must be attacked? Where is the due process in any of this? Are you really supporting vigilante action against a religion you don't like? Maybe you'd like to invite the KKK, I'm sure they'd love to help lynch some scientolgists if you'll help them set a few crosses on fire.
Robert Heinlein supposedly suggested that he invent a religion to act as a front for his Dianetics, since it's claims were rejected by the scientific community. (some people claim it was a bet, that's disputed by many, but they both brough out books with new Religions at the same time (Heineins was Stranger in a Strange Land, at least he can write)).
Several people claim to have been present when Hubbard declared at a convention that starting a religion/cult is a good way to make money: http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/scientology/start.a.religion.html
Harlan Ellsion (Repent Harlequin!) claimed that he was there when it was invented. In an interview he recounts his take on the story: http://cgi.amazing.com/scientology/harlan-ellison.html
None of that has any bearing on my points.
I believe that groups should spend more time distributing materials detailing the history and dangers of the CoS and allow the people to come to their own conclusions instead of attacking it with harsh words and descriptions.
I also see, however, that the CoS has become very powerful and shady organization that uses many tactics that I obviously don't agree with.
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire, I guess.
By the way, if you watch ANYTHING on the CoS, watch this video. It is made by the BBC and it is very professional. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-126281853779690652
YTMND user have a longer history of attacking Scientology, AFAIK
After watching that video I only wonder how long scientology has been around asside these last like 5 years or so this seems like a fish thats fresh out of the water? Normally I dont follow cults, and after south parks who interpitation of this thing, I didnt pay attention to it even more in the end.
*deleted by the Church of Scientology's legal team*
I love me some religious oppression
My 2 cents on the matter is that any organized group of persons who's underlying goal is to achieve financial security by ways of murder, extortion, manipulation, and deceit should be 'brought to justice' by whichever way possible without cause of physical harm. JUST because Scientology has a steel group of lawyers doesn't mean they're in the clear.
What Anon is doing is both trying to bring awareness to their fucked up reasoning & methods AND bring down this CULT that does what I just said to their members. You'd never hear a Scientologist say "I was brain washed" and still be a part of the CULT. Those who've defected have all said the same thing: That Scientology brain washed them from HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of dollars by making them feel mentally insecure and guaranteeing enlightenment through payment.
RELIGION:
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a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
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CULT:
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-a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
-any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
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Just because they've managed to hide by the guise of a Religion doesn't make it so when sensibility is used to look at the big picture they've draw of themselves.
While "Anonymous" is using rather ridiculous tactics it is some what reassuring to know that when the sensibility and logic of a person or persons is tried & pushed, they'll push back.
They replied back and said they'd want me to fly out there, see them, and they'd give me a tour of the place. At this point I did my research and found out that this vfx place was a branch of the Scientology church, stationed at the Scientology HQ, and they did all their videos and stuff. Needless to say, I quickly emailed the guy back and politely declined, stating that I was happy where I was, but I appreciated the offer, hoping to get them the hell off my back asap.
The next day I got a call from the Art Institute of Houston. These guys had linked to other artists from AI off of my site, asking them the same thing, saying that I was very interested and was flying out there and that I suggested them as well. And so on and so forth, they emailed one of my instructors, other students, all saying that we were all interested. They kept emailing, trying to change our minds. AI had to finally put out an email to animation students there letting them know about this and NOT to respond. We have no idea how they got ahold of us to begin with but it was kinda creepy how they were really harassing us and just flat out lying and telling students that their friends were interested.
I also received a phone call about this and an offer. I looked into it more and it got really creepy. The "compound" was so far away from anything that it really creeped me out. Also there are many stories and rumors about what goes on there and I asked about being able to have a car so I could travel and get away at night and weekends and I was told that would not be possible. That sent off a huge fucking red flag.
All in all I don't think scientology is a religion. It is a way to make money and for tax breaks and for people that have no power at all to become powerful.
Why would the amount of money you spend directly affect how "enlightened" you are.
Seriously. It's a joke. Tom Cruise is a joke.
TheMadArtist
I also received a phone call about this and an offer. I looked into it more and it got really creepy. The "compound" was so far away from anything that it really creeped me out. Also there are many stories and rumors about what goes on there and I asked about being able to have a car so I could travel and get away at night and weekends and I was told that would not be possible. That sent off a huge fucking red flag.
All in all I don't think scientology is a religion. It is a way to make money and for tax breaks and for people that have no power at all to become powerful.
Why would the amount of money you spend directly affect how "enlightened" you are.
Seriously. It's a joke. Tom Cruise is a joke.
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Yeah it was really creepy. Especially how they wouldn't leave us alone and kept spreading through AI. Did you ever find out how they found you? That was a concern for a few people up there. I assumed they just trolled cg forums.
Yeah it was really creepy. Especially how they wouldn't leave us alone and kept spreading through AI. Did you ever find out how they found you? That was a concern for a few people up there. I assumed they just trolled cg forums.
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I was referred by another AI member. I am guessing one AI school let out some names and then it just spread even more and the use of the cg forums. They were just really creepy and kept calling me.
I didn't like it at all after I found out more details. Creepy bastards...
We will crush this evil abomination that is known as Scientology (Sith)....
My official title is High Chancellor of the Vagi.
BOW MINIONS!
SAVE ME TOM CRUISE , SAVE ME WITH YOUR WITCHCRAFT!
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you just lost your right to complain about 'Meet the Spartans'
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SAVE ME TOM CRUISE , SAVE ME WITH YOUR WITCHCRAFT!
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you just lost your right to complain about 'Meet the Spartans'
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Seriously. No kidding.
My new religion gets this.
While Scientology gets this.
CULT:-a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
-any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
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Both these points sound like any religion before they hit mainstream and dominate 'conventional society'. I consider christianity to be a false, unorthodox and extremist way of life inspired by an undeniably charismatic leader who claimed to have the sole inside into the nature of quite a number of diseases and cured these by methods which were neither orthodox nor scientific. Just because the vast majority of christians have long stopped living by the rules of thir sacret book, which also happens to be the sole source of its religious mandate, doesn't mean it's not equally rediculous at its core.
Scientology is a young religion, give it some time. By the year 2250 everybody who's gotten rich of it has died, people will have forgotten these spanish inquisition type deals and 'Muhammed' will be replaced by 'Tom' as the most common name on earth.
THEN FUCKING DO IT FOR FREE.
Don't charge me $300 for self help videos, then another $100,000 to fulfill a "level" of happiness. Utter bullshit.
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CULT:-a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.
-any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
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Both these points sound like any religion before they hit mainstream and dominate 'conventional society'. I consider christianity to be a false, unorthodox and extremist way of life inspired by an undeniably charismatic leader who claimed to have the sole inside into the nature of quite a number of diseases and cured these by methods which were neither orthodox nor scientific. Just because the vast majority of christians have long stopped living by the rules of thir sacret book, which also happens to be the sole source of its religious mandate, doesn't mean it's not equally rediculous at its core.
Scientology is a young religion, give it some time. By the year 2250 everybody who's gotten rich of it has died, people will have forgotten these spanish inquisition type deals and 'Muhammed' will be replaced by 'Tom' as the most common name on earth.
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Haha, you're grumpy.
Scientology is a young religion, give it some time. By the year 2250 everybody who's gotten rich of it has died, people will have forgotten these spanish inquisition type deals and 'Muhammed' will be replaced by 'Tom' as the most common name on earth.
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I hope the world never sees that prophecy come to light. That would be worse then hacking my own cock off with a broken rusty hack saw.
And that's an understatement!
Okay, not for serious
I paid money to see that in the theatre... I was too ashamed to ask for a refund when it was over. =\
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I just fucking choked on my coffee reading this. Thanks.