Game Design: Schools and Courses?
For a while now, I've been looking at a career in the video game industry, in game design. I've been looking at colleges around the Montreal area, seeing as there are so many studios there, it seems one could get a good education on the subject. I was hoping someone could point out which courses are most important, and any other possible schools which I should look at.
The majority of sites I have read have in common: strong language skills and communication, from there it variates into multiple other courses. I'm hoping to find people who are pursuing a similar career track, and have some knowledge of which schools are the best, as well as primary courses to take.
The majority of sites I have read have in common: strong language skills and communication, from there it variates into multiple other courses. I'm hoping to find people who are pursuing a similar career track, and have some knowledge of which schools are the best, as well as primary courses to take.
Replies
I doubt that many people walk into a design job right off the street especially with zero industry experience even with a fancy piece of paper that says you're a cool guy. It's not that its a closed industry or those types of jobs are only open to insiders but actually if someone is going to design a game, they better know damn well how it goes together so the company doesn't waste time and money chasing some goal that can't actually be realized. One of a game designers key goals is to design to the strengths of the tools at hand. I don't want retarded chimp missing both hands to draw up plans for my next car, even if I agree with him that banana skin seat covers are the next hottest thing.
So my advice, keep your ideas on a low heat and cook them for several years while you also work to fill your noggin up with practical knowledge of how the industry works.
If you want a design job you are gonna have to work to prove yourself before getting the job, like vig said. Take some time and work with an editor doing some mods, research design theory and write up some documentation, that kind of stuff. To get started you may want to look into the Never Winter Nights editor, UT3 or UT2 editors, crysis, or what have you.
Anyways, having been through a game art and design school I wouldn't suggest one for game design. Though I was at the school for art and graduated as an artist, I also did all of the design classes and graduated with nearly the equivilant of what my school considered a design portfolio in addition to my art 'folio. Although if you work very hard at the school it will lead to a job, you could probably cut out a lot of extraneous crap by skipping the school and teaching yourself online.
[edit]What in the hell are you arsewads going on about? He never said anything about his ideas or any of that, he said he wants to get a career as a game designer. Nothing wrong with that.[/edit]
What in the hell are you arsewads going on about? He never said anything about his ideas or any of that, he said he wants to get a career as a game designer. Nothing wrong with that.
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I'll repeat myself in hopes you'll understand I wasn't flaming but offering practical advice. A design job is hard to come by even if you are designing a game for a place that already has a set idea. Especially walking in cold off the street fresh out of school. Design positions are normally filled from within by promotion from the lower ranks. You want into a design job (so does everyone else), thats how someone normally finds themselves in that position.
My advice was two fold.
1) Get his foot in the door by learning practical skills that will help him advance to where he wants to go.
2) Knowing the tools and how to best use them is what makes great designers. Great ideas are a dime a dozen and great ideas alone don't always make for good games. But being able to balance the two, now thats a good designer. Its a mistake to skip over the practical learning that will get his foot in the door and teach him how to balance design with playability.
A game designer is like a framer in construction, if that guy doesn't know how to swing a hammer, its going to be a nightmare when you go to hang the doors and windows. It's why there is so much animosity between engineers and the monkeys that actually build whatever it is. Any time a company can hire someone who knows both ends not just one, they will go for that candidate above the others especially if he's already part of the company.
And yea if we are talking about an Environmental Artist (first post doesn't read that way) then he needs to look for a school that caters to that (not design) or structure his own learning.
but if as vig and per seems to think he is trying to hop straight into the industry as a will Wright and just poof make a game. Then thats pretty far fetched.
There are many levels to game design.
That said I do agree about it being good to get a foot in the door to make some money while you learn yourself. Something like QA is a great place for designers to start in my opinion.
You're totally right normally the designer is dreaming smaller chuncks of someone else's grander idea, puzzles, traps, what theme of an environment might be. But rarely do the designers I know actually sit down and break out areas and crunch numbers. They worked hard for many years so they could have producers do it for them.
most schools "disguise" their programs as game design, but in reality offer nothing more than a game ART or game PROGRAMMING course, or a combination of the two which lead to people who are unable to land ANY kind of jobs in the industry since they can't quite do art but they also aren't quite as good at coding either... usually this happens because the people who design the program usually have never worked in the industry and really have no idea what it takes to succeed outside of academia.
now with all that said you may be wondering WHY in the world would i want to go to school then? well you don't have to, i think going to school to learn how to make games is a TERRIBLE idea, you'll end up with a degree and a 40k loan when you're done... and start out as a lowly grunt making very little money just like the rest of them. the main thing that anyone doing the hiring will look at is your skill level in a specific discipline and your experience, since you have no prior experience and have no shipped titles you will have to wow the employers with your skills in order to get a job.
but things u could do are:
art - make models/textures for the game
animation - animate objects and characters
programming - program the inner workings of the game, basically build the systems that make everything work
sound - make sounds and music
level design - take the models the artists have created and put them together into levels and try to make them fun
associate producer - make sure everyone is doing their jobs and be a nuissance
now NONE of these people actually "design" the game, what you usually have is a person or a group of people who are called designers, they are usually senior people who have made many games before and have proven that they know what is fun and how to make the game seem like it. USUALLY a level designer will get promoted or work his way up to be an actual designer, sometimes it will be a programmer, sometimes it'll be a producer, there are many paths, it is very rarely an artist though, since the general concensus is that all artists care about is making the game look pretty. Anyways, so now all you have to do is figure out which of these entry level positions you would like to get into and then do more research on how to get good at it.
Thanks for the responses.
Pretty much 99.2% of people say traditional art scholing, and the other .8% is really loud.
So, i have a question now, too.
Suppose I want to do game ART. What sort of classes would I go to? General art classes, or are there specific classes that cover GAME related art?
I like doing coding as well, but plan to focus on the art aspect and do coding as a side "hobby" (So to speak)
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you go to the school of hard knocks, a.k.a. Polycount University
No seriously, besides that you need to first figure otu what you're the most comfortable and competent with...coding can't just be something you choose as career because you like it but not necessary have the bg.
Even though I will have a degree at the end of my course I would say I have learnt far far more from polycount, poopinmymouth.com, c4dcafe.com, gameartisans.org.
Colins Bear is pretty much the same as what I would know if I had just learnt what I was shown at university: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiARsQSlzDc
My lecturer in 3D character design started learning 3D 2 months before he had to teach us
Most courses will give you a nuts and bolts how to and leave you to discover on your own. Something you can do on your own if you are good at structuring your own learning, which I've found to be a very handy skill and an ear mark of a good technical artist. They almost always teach the Maya/Unreal combo since it is so well documented. The problem with this is, people get caught up in learning the technical side of Unreal. The studios that use unreal are for the most part high end and will always look for people with industry experience, they can afford to be picky if they can afford the engine. The chances of walking out of your average game art school and working with the unreal engine are kind of slim. I would say know it, but don't blow your education on it. Learn the skills that translate well to the widest pool of studios possible.
So, programs change, work flows are different and pipelines get redesigned every day. What really puts the creative coal in your boiler is that traditional artistic talent, it will be the one skill you can always fall back on and will never really be outdated.
I decided to save myself an ass load of cash and buckle down and teach myself. It worked, I've been working in the industry for 2 years and manged to worm my way up to Lead Character Animator. I'm still learning, I don't think you should ever stop learning. I wish I knew then, what I know now. I would have focused less on the technical and more on the artistic side of things. I'm still playing catch up on the artistic.
I doubt that many people walk into a design job right off the street especially with zero industry experience even with a fancy piece of paper that says you're a cool guy.
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actually most my schoolmates and the guys that followed us for the past 3 years did.
I'm the only one that didn't because that was a personnal choice. you don't get hired for having ideas, but for sorting them out, writing 200 pages bibles detailing all the gameplay mechanics that will rule the game, create layouts and spend 90% of their time tweaking the game to death until it's fun to play, if you think anyone can do that, go on man we're waiting for your genius game to come out, but I tell you it asks for a lot of skills to do that the right way. (note : this may sound harsh, but it's not against you or your comment, just a general reply to this kind of comment
I'm not going to justify it more, but yes, good game design schools exist and you gan get a good job straight out of them, but you have to be the best to get in those (mine was accepting 30 people a year because they don't want to overflow the market, they had more than 1000 people trying to get in last year so yeah the selection is quite harsh.)
actually most my schoolmates and the guys that followed us for the past 3 years did.
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I wouldn't get his hopes up. The chances of that happening to your average joe looking around at local programs is still pretty low.
Talent got you and your friends in Vin. The program gave you a chance to hone your skills they didn't give you that talent. Its a pretty common mistake for someone "looking for a school" to make.
Q: What place will give me the skills I need?
A: You will. How you end up at talented, is up to you.
School is an opportunity. It doesn't guarantee success. By having a rigid screening process schools can pick and choose the candidates that already have what it takes, make some cash off them and point them to a door they could have walked through already.
The chances that this guy turns out to be one of those talented few, are pretty low. Since I don't have anything to gage his talent by I have to guess he's just like the other half million guys waking up to the reality that high school is over, the free ride and fun times have ended and that he'll be stuck working a dead end job until he clutches his chest and keels over. Unless he picks a path that interests him, which for most males age 18, is gaming.
The school I went to is the best game design school in france, probably one of the top ones in europe, but I had to move across my country to be able to go there, and yes, the selection process is a good clue on the quality of a school, if they just let you in, you can be pretty sure you won't get what you expect and that you'd better spend you money on something more constructive.
if you are into game design tho, I'd also strongly suggest tabletop game design schools (in france I think we have 2 or 3 of those) the rules are very close to video game design.
If you like level design, and still want to get into a good video game design school, make mods and levels.
also, shcools in europe are way cheaper than in the US, that helps a lot getting into a good school when you don't have to sell your family and balls to pay it.