Watts art material ?

pior

Hi there

There is something I have been asking myself for a couple of years now and I though I'd simply ask here. Most if not all of us have heard about the Watts Atelier:
http://www.wattsatelier.com/

I think it's a bt of a shame that all Waats students draw in a similar fashion but it's still a solid and remarquable style hence it's fine. This has to be a consequence of the teaching technique -Watts himself draws and shades in that particular manner- but I am mostly wondering about how much this is due to the *materials* used.

Examples below from http://www.phelansykes.com/
First image is a quicksketch, second one is an hour worth of rendering :





What I am talking about is the somehow cloudy yet strong-edged quality of the shaded areas. Most of the light info is already there in the quicksketch - which means that the specific material used here is very easy to lay down, has a blendy quality and can be used in fat, yet regular strokes.

I was thinking charcoal but the sticks I have don't allow for that kind of handling... Full body graphite pens (no wooden part) get closer but don't give the cloudy look. I'm kindof lost here! Plus paper blending sticks give too much of a smooth look, I don't think that's what is used here.
Or maybe it's also due to the paper used? I mostly use a slightly toothed sketchbook for the life classes but maybe they use some kind of smooth paper at Watts? Would make sense somehow.

Any idea?

I whish I could bring diluted china ink at the classes I'm attending atm to splash down shadows with a fat brush but we don't have enough room nor mess-friendly space to do that in our rented room :P

MoP

I'm pretty sure they're using torchons, the paper blending sticks you mentioned.
If you use a soft pencil to start off with then press hard and move fast with a torchon, it creates a very similar effect to that shown in the images, especially obvious in the lower left area of the 2nd image.
You can also guess that because of the soft blurriness that comes outside of the sketch lines now and then.

I reckon they draw out the shadow volumes on top of a really quick sketch, then use torchons to quickly fill the area with soft amounts of shadow, and then draw the more solid outlines etc. afterwards.

That's my guess anyway.

Tully

It is 100% for certain charcoal, since that is always what's used in ateliers at this stage of their programmes. It handles more like paint than graphite does, so they don't tend to use pencils after the Bargue drawing stage. I would say it's almost certainly fine willow or vine charcoal. Compressed charcoal sticks won't do this (and it's awful stuff, imo, only suitable for getting very dark blacks in shadows) if that's what you've been using. Not all brands of willow or vine charcoal are capable of this sort of look, but particularly very narrow ones often work very well (4-5mm in diameter... 1cm thick stuff exists too and it can work, but I've never been a fan,personally since it tends to be coarser in texture and catch on textured paper). Breaking off a piece an inch or two in length, rubbing the side on a piece of scrap paper to get it flat and then using it lightly to fill in tone would be the way to go about it (or at least the way I would).

It's likely these drawings are fairly sizable... this sort of look is possible on a small scale using torchons, but atelier life drawing is usually much bigger (at least 18x24") and that wouldn't really work that size. Torchons also have the effect of smoothing the whole thing and eliminating the grain of the paper, which is visible here.

edit: I'm also 99.9% sure these are on newsprint. Super cheap stuff... pretty standard for life drawing classes.

Jesse Moody

i know a few people on these boards that I went to school with at AI also took classes at Watts. Dkorch being one of them.

xysdf

i also think its done with torchons. once opon the time... i followed a video tutorial which used the technique mop described. i followed it (with a make up pad) and when i remember right the result pretty much looked like the examples above, shading wise. kneeded erazor may also be involved; paper guess: slightly toothed

obson

I used to goto the concept art forums a lot when some of the teachers and students from watts would post sketches from their classes. It's been awhile, but I seem to remember them using newsprint with black conte pencils sharpened to have a long point.

Jesse Moody

that sounds about right obson. we used newsprint at AI and conte pencils for the most part.

Hito

charcoal pencils or conte pencils. I didn't remember exactly which brand. You shave most the wood off to expose 2" or so of the charcoal, keep a bit of med-grit sand paper handy to keep it with a sharp point. I remember Ron grinding the point to have 2 sides. A large flat side for wide swaths of value, a smaller flat side for strong edges; the resulting point for outlines.

if you search for EmilyG's sketch thread at concept art I think she had some photos of the materials in the 1st few pages.

ChaosEidolon

Vine charcoal...without a doubt. I'm with tully.

The sticks are very light, fragile and crooked, since its basically just a carbonized twig, unlike the dark charcoal thats compressed into a dense stick.

its weird to work with,because its so easy to wipe off once applied, but once you get the hang of it its a blast to work with because of that fact.
The way i was taught to work with it was to lay out your lines...using your fingers to erase (makes a messy smear, but dont worry about it)then once you have your outlines down, smear it all down to blur the lines and start laying in blocks of color. Smear it down again. every time you do you lose contrast but you refine the shapes as well. Smearing it will also work the charcoal deeper into the paper, committing the shading (like flattening a layer =P) once its starting to look like youre nailing the volumes, you can start laying down more permament layers, that you might blend in but wont smear down all the way, and using a kneaded eraser to start pulling back the highlights. Also you can start working in the darks with compressed charcoal (sparingly...the stuff can be evil)

one thing to watch out for is perspiration on your hands. If you get sweaty finger tips and try to smear the vine charcoal down it will commit it unevenly and leave ugly finger prints and smudges that you cant erase.

Illusions

I'm also thinking torchons/blending tortillons with your standard 8H - 8B pencil drawing set. Could also be charcoal, but it definately looks like blending and shading was done with a torchon/blending tortillons. Sometimes they get so filled with graphite and charcoal you can just shade with them without having to lay down a base.

Sage

Pior I don't think it has anything to do with Watts style because it's very easy to get that look with charcoal. I'm not referring to his quality either, it just that material builds up in a certain way. I used to lay down lines and spend hours trying to get contrast with those damn fragile sticks but it would smear down every time and wouldn't give me the contrast I wanted. Then one day I overlayed them with smooth black charcoal where I wanted the dark shadows and I was happy. I imagine I would have learned how to use charcoal more efficiently if I had Watts as a professor though.

Alex

sebas

Interesting thread. I think it could be also a bit about the light conditions and the photo quality (?).

Panupat

Looks like normal soft charcoal stick to me. You don't really need to use vine to get that look if you draw on smooth news print paper.

erik!

I noticed the drawings at www.phelansykes.com say "Charcoal on Newsprint" under them

pior

Interesting indeed!

I see what you mean about the uncompressed charcoal. That's indeed what I have (can't stand the feel of the compressed sticks) but I don't actually draw with them. I like to chop off powder from them with an X-acto blade and use that straight with the fingers to get shading down. Problem is, this technique is very aggressive to the the flesh under the nails and I ended up with some annoying wounds after every session :P Two weeks ago I started putting tape on the tip of the fingers to allow for some bolder finger dipping action but the result is not as smooth. Time to use them sticks in a conventional manner!!

As for newsprint paper pads... I just checked at a large art supply store today and the guys never heard of that. I was expecting this since I don't recall seeing anything similar in France, ever! I checked online and Canson and a couple other brands have it, I'll definately order some blocks. Or make my own with free leftouts from a printing factory, or something. Or bleach out some newspaper pages!

I think that's definately it tho. I've been scouting a few more fine artists galleries and it turned out that nupastels+newsprint is a damn fine combo.

Keep the suggestions coming!

aesir

Thats interesting that you can't find newsprint. Its the standard for cheap big pads of paper. I hate the shit personally, but it is cheap.

Sage

I hate newsprint paper, since it just feels like it's going to tear apart when I draw on it. I never liked how it responded to me trying to erase or draw. I just use the generic drawing paper that says 80lb you can get from the store, that lets you using ink, some light watercolor washes, yeah it's more expensive but I can enjoy drawing on it and just mess around with different media. You can also get the biggie pads, since it cheap but the paper is a lot stronger than newsprint, I just dislike the binding of the pad. Prior I thought it was pretty interesting how you use charcoal, I'll have to try it sometime.

Alex

silversteez

i went to an atelier just like watts for a long time (in van nuys--associates in art). we used charcoal pencils as hito describes on smooth newsprint (it needs to be smooth to get that look). the tricky part was finding quality charcoal pencils--ritmo brand were the best you could buy for a loooong time, far superior to any other brand we tested. then, all of a sudden, they seemed to disappear from every art store. i think they've reappeared since, but i haven't looked for them in years... Contes are great too, but don't quite have the same effect on smooth newsprint if you're looking to get that particular style (in my experience, anyway).

Xenobond

If you're going to get newsprint to use, make sure you stack a good amount of them together when you put it on your board. You get a much better feel with that that if you were just to have one sheet of paper against the board.

pior

!!!

I've been scouting all around Paris at artstores, printing offices and basically everywhere and finally found something that comes close ... at Muji's. Supercheap (1,5€ per A3 block) supercrap recycled paper. Even the cardboard at the back of it is of cheap quality, I might end up buying a couple of these thin blocks and got them bound to a more steady back piece. It doesn't really feels like newsprint, but it's interesting to work on.



Tried your guys technique, got this, getting closer :


Panties!

silversteez

pior--those sketches look fucking great. i don't think you need to worry about getting any specific "look".

pretty soon people will be trying to get that "pior look".

keep it up!