Hey guys first poster here. I was hoping you guys could help me out with some tweaks to a facial structure I've been working on. Part of a larger WIP that I will be posting later.
Have a look at seforin's self improvement thread. There are some good tips in there for you to use. Escpecially since you seem to be having the same issues as him.
First off, are you trying to model an old man? A little kid? A man? Theres lots of different kinds of faces.
Secondly, I guess I could go into critiques by telling you that the nose is too small, the eyes, nose and mouth are too far down the face, and that the eyes are too big and so on.
however,
I think it would be better if you just found some references to work off of. It'll help you understand facial structure a lot more if you have a real face to look at while you model.
I'm going to download a 3d skull off a free website and see if/how everything matches up and fix accordingly. Other than anatomical anomalies any suggestions with topolgy. something is not looking right to me but i can't pinpoint it.
@ aesir: its a middle aged man from the middle ages.
More detail and tweaking. This one done using japhir's skull, man is coming back from the hundred years war, approximately 30 years old. beleaguered and tired. Gonna normal map some wrinkles and bags under the eyes. Thanks again to japhir
If this is 3dstudio max, learn to use ctrl+backspace on selected edges. Use this to clean up a lot of the billion edges down the middle of his face. When you construct a face (or any model for that matter..) Try to be consistent in your polygon distribution, as you increase detail do so equally across the model.
Your edge loops are funky, especially around the eyes. Do yourself a favor and clean up the edge loops. Here's a model i'm working on at the moment, it might give you an idea how to make some nicer loops. (My way isnt necessarily the right way tho, but take it for what its worth..)
The topology of the model is not the greatest. But it has improved from your first post. Slash's link has some really nice edge flow and is a very clean mesh.
I think your biggest issue at the moment is learning how to build something with neat and correct edge flow. Once you understand that, modeling will become easier and faster.
I had a look through my reference library and found this image which shows each section:
My advice, start the model from scratch. Get reference. Pay attention to your edge flow. If an edge loop is not doing anything to improve the silhouette of your model or not improving facial deformation, it shouldn't be in there.
Hope some of this has helped.
the ear needs LOTS of love. The eyes may have better edge loops but the shape of them is still way off, ez way to make this a bit better is put a sphere in there for the eye ball and pull the socket verts around it. Also the mouth has no lips at all, its just slivers at the moment, give them some fullness and shape. Back onto the eye subject, he sufferes from browless syndrom.
what refferences are you using? let us see the pictures of the face you are trying to model, and overlay your model onto that photo in photo shop so we can see how close your getting.
If you're serious about learning to model well and don't mind spending a few quid, I'd recommend Jason Osipa's Stop Staring book. Although it's a bit Maya-centric, most of it translates into any modelling package and has a fairly lighthearted approach making it an easy read.
At the moment, you're still missing most of the important loops, and have a lot of awkwardly shaped polys in there. Honestly, I'd agree with DizzyWalnut here - you'd be better off starting from scratch. Try modelling poly-by-poly, using quads and extruding edges. Focus on making fully linked up circles of quads around the eye and mouth areas, then you'll probably find it easier to connect them. Try to work with as few vertices as possible while you're still blocking in the shape. You can always refine and add more later on.
He seems to be lacking the neck now...even though in the pic it seems like they're really close, you should think about the usual face and tweak according to that...or mayeb its because its a dead on persp view.
Also might wanna drag up the loop on the lower nose bridge as it seems like its coming too close together.
Before you do anything, rip a few of those edge loops out, particularly around the mouth, and work with the form at a *much* lower resolution. You'll find it infinitely easier than having to shift all those points around that you have right now.
I have some reference pics that may help you w/ edgeloops. I don't know from where they come, but they're not from my models, all rights and respect to their respective creators:
Just keep cracking at it and don't get frustrated.
I like that picture, caseyjones. The "nose bride/mouth loop" is something I see lots of people get wrong. Most just rely on the mouth loops themselves for the laugh lines. That's alright if you don't intend on animating your characters face, but if you intend on giving them a smile or something simple the laugh line will curve from the corner of the mouth to under the nose if you're not careful.
In my opinion that's one of the most important loops on the face.
Also, a tip on the mouth loops. Less edges would be good, as someone already said. But, as your loops go in from the outer edge of the mouth, skin color to lip color edge, the loops at the corner of the mouth start to tuck into the mouth practically right away, where the edges near the actual center of the lips stay out visible longer and are fater polys as you go in loop by loop.
Also, when you get to the neck a couple really important muscles. Trapezius, and the other one is really long had to look it up, sternocleidomastoid O.o I just know the shape, not the names :P anyway make sure you get those in and you'll have a good start on the neck. The trapz connect to the shoulder blade and wrap around to the clavicle a little, and the...umm other long name one, connects from the back of the ear to the center of the clavicle, right above the sternum.
you can see how the sternocleidomastoid muscles flow on 8ftspiders post, second picture down. If that model were expanded/unhid by like one more row of polys, you'd see the clavicle go from the center of the chest up to the center of the shoulders in a kind of straightened S shape.
K done talking. Done plenty of talking for only my second post here.
[ QUOTE ]
Before you do anything, rip a few of those edge loops out, particularly around the mouth, and work with the form at a *much* lower resolution. You'll find it infinitely easier than having to shift all those points around that you have right now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Daz couldn't be more right. This kind of minimalist approach to creating things is a staple tool of everyone in the industry no matter what 3d package you use. When things don't look quite right the solution isn't to add more loops, its to adjust what you have. You can keep the same level of detail and have less. Having less will only make you faster.
Here is the base head script I used for a while until I learned proper flow. It uses tris in a few areas but for the most part it sticks to the quad/edge loop rules that most people have outlined here already. I don't like pointing new people to the script because it makes them lazy and they are less inclined to actually lay down the firm foundation they need. But hopefully it will do for you what it did for me, and teach more than be a crutch. I bet after a few weeks you either use a heavily modified Face-Maker head or come up with your own to use as a base.
I look at the script like Biped. Why reinvent the wheel when you can use the time saved to make great things. But it can be a crutch you use to make utter shit, it's up to you which road you take.
Replies
Secondly, I guess I could go into critiques by telling you that the nose is too small, the eyes, nose and mouth are too far down the face, and that the eyes are too big and so on.
however,
I think it would be better if you just found some references to work off of. It'll help you understand facial structure a lot more if you have a real face to look at while you model.
@ aesir: its a middle aged man from the middle ages.
for a free skull model
read some tuts and listen to the crits you get and you'll eventually improve. keep it up!
but anywho, heres an update after about a 1/2 hour-1 hour of tweaking with a skull underling the mesh
You definitely need some references.
@notman-rofl
Your edge loops are funky, especially around the eyes. Do yourself a favor and clean up the edge loops. Here's a model i'm working on at the moment, it might give you an idea how to make some nicer loops. (My way isnt necessarily the right way tho, but take it for what its worth..)
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b21/slashesc/pirate3d_2.jpg
I think your biggest issue at the moment is learning how to build something with neat and correct edge flow. Once you understand that, modeling will become easier and faster.
I had a look through my reference library and found this image which shows each section:
My advice, start the model from scratch. Get reference. Pay attention to your edge flow. If an edge loop is not doing anything to improve the silhouette of your model or not improving facial deformation, it shouldn't be in there.
Hope some of this has helped.
-caseyjones
Thanks for the references caseyjones and slash, they really helped out a lot
what refferences are you using? let us see the pictures of the face you are trying to model, and overlay your model onto that photo in photo shop so we can see how close your getting.
Try this one -
anyway , have look here - can help :
http://www.artnatomia.net/uk/artnatomy.html
At the moment, you're still missing most of the important loops, and have a lot of awkwardly shaped polys in there. Honestly, I'd agree with DizzyWalnut here - you'd be better off starting from scratch. Try modelling poly-by-poly, using quads and extruding edges. Focus on making fully linked up circles of quads around the eye and mouth areas, then you'll probably find it easier to connect them. Try to work with as few vertices as possible while you're still blocking in the shape. You can always refine and add more later on.
http://www.ghouseproductions.com/tutorials.html
http://www.3dtotal.com/ffa/tutorials/max/joanofarc/head1.asp
http://www.3dzealot.com/php/index.php
I left the ears out for now, i still need some practice working with them.
thanks for ant crit and comments in advance, and a big thank you to all the tuts and suggestions!
Also might wanna drag up the loop on the lower nose bridge as it seems like its coming too close together.
Just keep cracking at it and don't get frustrated.
In my opinion that's one of the most important loops on the face.
Also, a tip on the mouth loops. Less edges would be good, as someone already said. But, as your loops go in from the outer edge of the mouth, skin color to lip color edge, the loops at the corner of the mouth start to tuck into the mouth practically right away, where the edges near the actual center of the lips stay out visible longer and are fater polys as you go in loop by loop.
hope that makes sense
good luck
Eric
you can see how the sternocleidomastoid muscles flow on 8ftspiders post, second picture down. If that model were expanded/unhid by like one more row of polys, you'd see the clavicle go from the center of the chest up to the center of the shoulders in a kind of straightened S shape.
K done talking. Done plenty of talking for only my second post here.
Before you do anything, rip a few of those edge loops out, particularly around the mouth, and work with the form at a *much* lower resolution. You'll find it infinitely easier than having to shift all those points around that you have right now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Daz couldn't be more right. This kind of minimalist approach to creating things is a staple tool of everyone in the industry no matter what 3d package you use. When things don't look quite right the solution isn't to add more loops, its to adjust what you have. You can keep the same level of detail and have less. Having less will only make you faster.
Here is the base head script I used for a while until I learned proper flow. It uses tris in a few areas but for the most part it sticks to the quad/edge loop rules that most people have outlined here already. I don't like pointing new people to the script because it makes them lazy and they are less inclined to actually lay down the firm foundation they need. But hopefully it will do for you what it did for me, and teach more than be a crutch. I bet after a few weeks you either use a heavily modified Face-Maker head or come up with your own to use as a base.
I look at the script like Biped. Why reinvent the wheel when you can use the time saved to make great things. But it can be a crutch you use to make utter shit, it's up to you which road you take.