TSM's models

TSM

Hey guys, I'm looking for some crits on my latest game art model ( I have a few WIP's but I'll just show this now ).

http://img484.imageshack.us/img484/7509/swordko9.jpg

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/7084/sword1pw4.jpg

Next gen.

Tear it up! I'm new here but I'm ready for improvement! Thanks guys!

Rated Rrr

Hey TSM, I don't really know what to say. This thing is very basic, not much is saying "wow." It seems like a few edges are redundant and could be faked with smoothing groups. Get a nice 5k+ poly sword going and normal map it onto something like this and you'll grab some notice. Nice basic mesh keep pumping this thing up and you'll get it.

It might be me but next time could you get one complete shot of the obj, maybe a better angle. It was harder looking at top and bottom.

And welcome to the boards

TSM

Thanks Rated!

Right, I'm really not posting to impress, but to improve.
I'm by no means done with the mesh and I can't find a good reason why to get it to 5k tris since it's only a sword.

The weapon is quite long and that's why I broke it down into 2 sections (but you`re right, I'll upload a full mesh view soon).

What edges do you think are redundant? I have a few edges there that could be marked as that simply because if I removed them, artifacts would occur in the shading groups so to fix triangulation, I did my best.

Thanks again!!

TSM

Sorry for the double post.. but here is the full view, I also just went for a basic blade design instead of something "cool" since I didn't want to bother with it.

http://img451.imageshack.us/img451/7954/swordep4.jpg

I also redid parts of it and tweaked quite a few things.

Brahyt

The reason for pumping the sword up to 5000 polys is so that you can create detail onto the sword that you cant get with low poly modeling. Once you have modeled the sword in high poly you will be able to bake a normal map and apply the normal map to the low poly model.

TSM

Brahyt: Thanks for the reply! Yeah I caught that. I'll see what I can do. I'm trying to get at texture practice more so than normal mapping, .. If I wanted to normal map I would spend more than 5k tris on the high res mesh.

I got it UVed and will start texturing it soon.

Ott

Before you start baking-high-resnormal-mudboxing-AOing-Googling meshes and trying to spring before you crawl, unwrap this and impress us with your texturing and basic modeling abilities. Most "noobies" won't post a sword that some of us could model in about 15 minutes.

As for the sword itself, it's not looking too bad. Almost thought it was a Thundercats sword for a sec there...which is badass Your edgeloops aren't too bad. There's one or two along the blade that you might not need for a low poly weapon. Get some basic textures down and let's see where you are from there!

Don't take that the wrong way, but I am illustrating that you should focus more on getting a decent start down and learn from that, then move onto the next one. Show us what you can do, and when you are comfortable with low poly simplistic objects that look tight, then start making something more complex. Your speed and ability will vastly improve and before long, there will be nothing you can't model.

TSM

Ott : Thanks for the reply! I understand what you`re saying. This mesh wasn't "hard" for me to model, and only took me about 45 minutes to get where I was when I posted it. I was primarily using it to show a buddy something about box modeling, but I turned out to like the basic design and modified some areas, then started messing with triangulation and whatnot.

I posted it in such an early state is because I'm hungry for any types of crits and I want to learn. I have been doing this for some time and as I said before, I don't need to impress I just want some helpful crits (which you gave).

Here is the UV layout, now of course you guys don't know what exactly what is what, but overall, does it looks OK?

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordjpegyu9.jpg

I optimized the mesh a little bit as well but not enough for a new picture I'd say.

Jesse Moody

hmmm honestly i would probably use a 1024x512 or 512x1024 on this because you have the long blade.

It's hard to tell if your unwrap is good without actually seeing a checkerboard or one of the many uv tiling textures applied to check for stretching and making sure everything is getting the same amount of uv space.

TSM

Jesse: (It's a good name, since my name is also Jesse)

And, I had to shrink / expand some sections so that the UV space would be filled. Otherwise, if I hadn't, then there would be much wasted space. Mainly the grip was expanded, while, the bottom of the hilt was shrunk.

Quaggs

I think what jesse is saying is that, since your sword is so much longer than it is wide that your map should follow that same style, that way you wouldnt need to stretch out or shrink parts out of their regular shape so much, while still minimizing the amount of wasted map space. If i had a pic that was relevant i would show you what im talking about, alas i have none on hand as of right now.

TSM

Thanks for the responses everyone!

I am going to redo the UV in 1024x512 but I have a few questions but before that, I changed parts of the weapon and optimized it quite a bit.

http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordqw8.jpg

Anyway, about the 1024x512...

I still have the same square to put my UV's in, so how do I know I'm doing it right since the box doesn't really care what resolution I'm rendering out. Does that make sense?

Ott

UVW Editor Window

Options > Advanced Options

Display Preferences - Render Width / Height

Set this to 1024/512 or whatever your preferences are. Then render your texture out to that specific size as well.

Jesse Moody

yeah...what ott said. I also wrote a quick tutorial on this on my site.

Feel free to check it out and it might help ya.

TSM

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TSM

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TSM

EDIT : Got it.

Ne'ways, here is a small update. Haha - I finally like the final design.

http://img473.imageshack.us/img473/4470/swordzs5.jpg

My max copy is bugging out, I can't apply a UVW map on it now. I guess I'll see if restarting does anything.

TSM

Here it the UV map and a picture.

http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sworduvwav4.jpg

and

http://img454.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sworduvwcm4.jpg

If it all looks good, then the texture!

EarthQuake

I'de use 1024x256 so you dont have such uneven detail on the blade and the handle.

TSM

Thanks EarthQuake!

I did just that but I have a question..

http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/9342/sworduvwou8.jpg

The problem is obvious, my UV layout is scrunched (Bad), but the texture shows no stretching (good). If I reverse it, my layout is correct (good) but the texture shows stretching (bad).

Thoughts?

Ott

#1. Get rid of that god-awful checker pattern on the background of your UVW window. We can't see anything.

#2. Get rid of those god-awful grid lines on the background of your UVW window. We hate that.

#3. Go to Jesse's website, read the tutorial, get Chuggnut's UVW tools (I'm too lazy to find it in the default Max settings) and run the resize on the polygons. It's a simple fix if you have the UVW tools.

#4. You need to realize that a pixel is a pixel. If your UVW "checker map" is skewed, it's supposed to. You are trying to fit a square along the surface of a rectangle evenly. When you resize, it's keeping the same pixel density and adjusting it for the new texture size. So, you have a choice - Keep the checkermap a perfect square (relatively irrelevant) or stretch it to get accurate pixel density. You can't have it both ways with a varying axis of a checker map.

What you can do though, is make a checker map that is made custom for skewed unwraps. For example, one of your axis would be double the size of the other, and that way you would be able to determine if it is a perfect unwrap with the generic "Is this box skewed" method.

Any of that make sense?

TSM

Lack of updates due to my 8800GTS sadly passing away.

I got a new laptop though and awaiting my new 8600GTS (I think, to hold me until the 9x00 series) so here is a mesh I worked on tonight and the design isn't mine. Any crits?

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3751/tower1fv0.jpg

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/5127/tower2vs8.jpg

http://img452.imageshack.us/img452/457/tower3ea9.jpg

Thanks!

EarthQuake

Your 8800 should be under waranty, why did you buy a new card?

TSM

It's not under warranty. It has a flashed bios, soldering, a custom built heatsink, and burn marks all over it. :P

*COUGH*

Xaltar

hahaha, the risks of modding. So addictive yet so costly when things go wrong

I feel your pain, I've killed more than a few of my old cards by trying to get "that little bit more" out of them lol. Although I only do it when I'm about ready for an upgrade these days

TSM

Xal: Haha, yes. Kinda a bummer for sure. Since the card isn't even 3 months old. Oh well.

Another update: http://img106.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tower4uv8.jpg
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2135/tower5jh6.jpg
I added a straight wall, and a 10 degree turn wall. I'm gonna hate the UV process. I'm not sure how many more types of buildings I will make. Any ideas? Anything look bad?

TSM

And again:

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/6564/tower6qe6.jpg

I'm having a few issues though, when I made this wall, theres a gap on the other side of maybe 2 feet which means inconsistency between the meshes...*sigh, I'll go through them.

TSM

Alright. I touched up all the meshes and fixed the gap error.

I had some free time and started to model a barracks. And the big wall (with the arrow) isn't done yet. I'm too tired to get that finished tonight. I need to start UVing these so I don't have 50 models to UV. Any crits so far?

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/7876/towerallpi2.jpg

Flewda

There are a lot of flat pieces that have edgeloops cut right down the center, and do not seem to be changing the silhouette in any way, is this so you can mirror UVs? Or an oversight?

The pieces over the windows look like they have an insane amount of geometry. I can't even see what those edges are making up (although I assume that it's grooves). Either way, that is pretty excessive for a window cover, especially something up that high. A normal map would just fine for that. Even if this scene is being done old school (all lighting baked in) you could still make it look nice with painting that detail in. Just a lot of polys with not a lot of reward.

Other than that, it seems to be looking cool. Keep it up.

TSM

Hey Flewda.

The cut down the middle is scaled a bit down compared to the rest of the piece, which helps IMO in realism.

Also, the cuts on the window shutters are bevels for all sides. A bevel at 90 degrees has the same performance as a non beveled edge at 90 degrees (in most cases). Which is why I did it that way.

I don't know if I will mirror UV's..maybe..

Thanks for the crits!

TSM

http://img487.imageshack.us/img487/3310/barracks1ec3.jpg

Almost done with barracks (there will be a building in the middle. Hopefully to get the modeling done tomorrow and starting the UV of everything!

breakneck

um, what happened to the sword? is it textured or did you move on? - just curious

TSM

Good question there breakneck.

The sword mesh is NOT done. A few days before I left for Colorado (where I'm at now) my 8600GTS(or GS?) came and I forgot to load it on my laptop!!

This week is my "Get my scenes done" week ... but life just so happens to make it that I don't get all of it done.

When I get back home I will finish that weapon. The sword will be apart of this scene with a few characters I will model. This will be a full "game" scene... with lighting / terrain.

I haven't done something of this magnitude ever. So this will be a huge learning experience for me.

TSM

More updates...

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6442/barracks2uc7.jpg

Almost done...

TSM

And again..

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/8248/barracks3iv3.jpg

I think the buildings are 98% done. I just need to close some of them.

http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/8353/demo1bn0.jpg

I'm messing around with some designs... any ideas? It is going to be an arena for gladiators. (Barracks in the background and in the middle the arena.)

TSM

Another update! Starting the UVW process. Need some help with it. (will finish the sword soon...)

http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=straightwalloq1.png

http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=straightwallqc6.jpg

Question with the UV map... as you can see, it's 1024x^2 but there is alittle wasted space on the upper left. Now, I think I'm good at puzzles, and I tried a bit and I expanded some areas enough to make the wasted space less, but in turn, it "kicked" some other pieces off the UV map. Any general tips? Is this something maybe I just have it live with?

Flewda

Sometimes, you do just have to live with it. However, if you have any smaller maps you are using that are going to be used only with or near by this piece, you could combine the two. You obviously don't HAVE to use it near that piece, but it's good practice to get in the habit of being cautious of memory limits and efficiency. If someone were to want to use that prop (alone) somewhere else, they'd have to take on the whole 1024. So usually it makes sense to keep things combined that are usually only going to be used together.

Sorry for the ramble. That's really the only thing I can think of to do if you've already maximized the UVs in there. Or you could add a little more geometry to that piece and unwrap that

TSM

Thanks Josh! I might just live with it or just a different arrangement. I've been working on the texture which I plan for obviously wooden support and (not so obvious) stone walls if you will. MapZone has a nice base for the stone wall and might just use that and photoshop it. Hopefully I get this done soon!

Thanks again!

TSM

My AO map is coming out totally jacked up.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3072/testjm4.jpg

Any ideas?

TSM

Woot! 3rd post in a row, neways, the above question is still valid... but while I tried to fix it in Photoshop this happened

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9630/whyfv0.jpg

EX: when I load an image in PS it changes the color. It's a clean install with no weird settings. I can't continue texturing when it's like this... <shrug> I guess i'll go model some landscape (maybe.)

Japhir

huh? i have no idea how that might happen, but apparently it has something to do with your foreground color (black becomes foreground color if you look at your screengrab.)
hope you can fix this man!

HandSandwich

The bad AO might be from overlapping. If you have any of the uvs overlapping to save space, the AO for each section gets put into the overlapping area, which in turn causes weird errors like that. I usually just choose one set of faces, detach the rest, and bake the AO off of those. Hopefully that makes sense. :{)

TSM

Texture update!

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/702/testxh2.jpg

This is one of my first time texturing and I mainly focused on the wood. Everyone is and will be photo sourced or taken by my camera.

I can post the texture sheet if requested.

Cody

The wood isn't bad. The only thing that bothers me is that the wood seems to be sitting there, I don't see how it is attached. Maybe texture in something suggesting how this wood is staying there, if it even needs to be there. It seems the wall should be mostly wood, or mostly stone. Why would that wood need to be there when they have a stone wall?

TSM

Update

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/396/textureqh3.jpg

Honestly, I'm just following a concept and staying true to it. However, I could logically say that perhaps, the wood gives the stone more support, say, more effective with wood + stone during some attack than just, stone or wood?

cholden

here's a quick paintover of a few ideas

darker, browner wood to better contrast the stone and appear stronger, harder.
highlight edges of wood to give hard edge look
weatheration on stone, helps wood and ground blend in and stabalizes piece within environment instead of appearing cookie-cutter.
lots of random hue/saturations over entire thing, gives color variety and again a more natural look in environment.
increased contrast overall

I'd also repaint the stone. I'm sure I recognize that photo, it's flat and smooth to be walked on, not stacked with heavy fortification and speed of construction of a fort's wall.

TSM

Wow! I love that! I'm quite new with Photoshop (texturing in general), how would I get that rich dark brown without ruining the wood quality?

Also, how would I "repaint" the stone if I am using photos?

hikagesan

one of the easier ways to change a color or saturation of a picture or texture is the hue/saturation adjustment which can be done in a couple of different ways. The first is directly changing the hue/sat of the layer itself and is done by Image -> Adjustments -> Hue/Saturation or Ctrl-U. The second way is to add an adjustment layer set to hue saturation (layer palette -> click the half black/half white circle -> choose Hue/Saturation). The difference between the 2 is that the adjustment layer will effect all the layers underneath it, while the Ctrl-U route will affect the currently active layer. The other difference is that you can double click on the adjustment layer at a future time to readjust your settings if ou are not happy with the color or saturation. The thrid advantage of an adjustment layer is that you can apply a layer mask (b&w value map like Filter -> Render -> Clouds) to the layer to further affect the way that the adjustment layer acts upon the layer (s) underneath it. It will take experimentation.

Repainting the stone is a little more involved. You can either clone stamp (S Hot Key) to square off shapes and retain the texture, then carefully paint in cracks, grout and damage etc. or you can paint with a color sampled from the area you want to copy then adjust the new area with filters or painting skills to match the texture that is already there. then hit the edges with highlights appropriate to the lighting in your scene and that matches the lighting already on your texture.

hope that helped a little.

TSM

Attack of the tiling textures! What's the best way to do stone but not have this ugly tile effect?

anyway, I redid the wood, does that look better? I'm starting to get a hang of this thing I think.

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/2330/texturehc6.jpg

TSM

Another update!

http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=texturexi0.jpg

I think I'm getting close. Any last thoughts?

oobersli

maybe give the stone a bit more color. it looks a bit too desaturated right now.