Snap question
Hi,
I guess this is super newbie question, but I have been suffering enough to ask your help..
What I want to learn is how to snap "a polygon" (called "a face" in maya) onto edge of my choice.
Since I learned Maya previously, Snap command was quite cumbersome to understand on Max.
In Maya, I need to select the element (Vert, Edge, or Face) and, while hold corresponding hot key (X for Grid, C for Curve, and V for Point), move the mouse cursor over the element you want to snap, and MMB click, in order to snap.
I tried similar step in max but nothing seems work for me.
Here are snap shot of my current snap option windows, and video comparison of snap between max and maya. If you watch the max snap video, you will see what I am talking. Please mention if there any trouble to watch the video, then I will try re-post.
[max snap option 01]
[max snap option 02]
[max snap]
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/8316/maxsnapmh2.flv
[maya snap]
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9883/mayasnapom5.flv
In advance, thanks for your time folks~
I guess this is super newbie question, but I have been suffering enough to ask your help..
What I want to learn is how to snap "a polygon" (called "a face" in maya) onto edge of my choice.
Since I learned Maya previously, Snap command was quite cumbersome to understand on Max.
In Maya, I need to select the element (Vert, Edge, or Face) and, while hold corresponding hot key (X for Grid, C for Curve, and V for Point), move the mouse cursor over the element you want to snap, and MMB click, in order to snap.
I tried similar step in max but nothing seems work for me.
Here are snap shot of my current snap option windows, and video comparison of snap between max and maya. If you watch the max snap video, you will see what I am talking. Please mention if there any trouble to watch the video, then I will try re-post.
[max snap option 01]
[max snap option 02]
[max snap]
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/8316/maxsnapmh2.flv
[maya snap]
http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/9883/mayasnapom5.flv
In advance, thanks for your time folks~
Replies
The face in the Max video is snapping to the edge closest to the "camera", although Max being Max it may just as well have snapped to any of the edges behind it. This is because you have the 3D snaps option engaged, while snapping on an orthographic viewport. 3D snap works best in either Perspective or User viewport mode, where Max can more easily distinguish what you mean to be pointing at.
In orthographic viewports it's probably more beneficial for you to use a 2.5D snap. This will snap the face to the edge from the angle of the viewport, but will not shift the face in the relative Z (that is, it won't move the face toward or away from the camera - only parallel to it). To select the 2.5D snap just hold down the LMB over the Snap icon in the toolbar for a second and a number of snap types will appear - 3, 2.5 and 2. Pick the 2.5 and try again. I've never used 2D snaps , so I don't know what that one does.
Also, Face is an acceptable term for Polygon in Max as well as Maya - it's just the software doesn't refer to it as such.
/E Perpendicular != Parallel
Yes, i was looking for correct steps how to snap the face line up onto edge of my choice, not how Maya snap function works.
I tried to 2.5D snap toggle, and now I got another problem. Whenever I tried to "grab" the tranform gizmo head, it select another face instead. I'll post if you want to see what I talking about.
If you don't mind, can you give me a bit further detail step ? I use "Switcher" made by dRaster guys, and it emulates the Maya nav system, and it sort of mess up how Max normally behave (without Switcher). For example, if I once select a face for snap on the edge of my choice, I use MMB to drag and drop onto the edge, and release the MMB. How do you do in your case (I am assuming you are just use as Max has shipped)?
I pretty much never snap faces to be honest. I almost never snap anything other than verts, since I find them a lot easier to manage. If there's a face I want to snap I'll hold CTRL and shift over to vert mode before doing the snap. Just a personal preference. It's also pretty rare that I use any other snap type than Vert, endpoint or midpoint - they allow me to do almost all the snapping I need to do.
When I do a snap I select the verts I want to snap, then I just click one of them and move them to where I want them to be - if verts are already selected it will only deselect them if you click something else, which may not be the case for two perpendicular faces where Max may read one as being in front of the other and select that one instead.
If it's any consolation they changed the way Max's snaps work in v7 (before 7 you could just hold a key and it would snap while the key was held, now you can only toggle), and it took a while for me to adjust to the change, so to a certain extent I understand what you're dealing with - but you do get used to it pretty quicky when you have to.
Thanks for replys guys.. it helps...
Now I am facing new challenge, to snap Pivot onto exact bottom of the box...
Shot at 2007-08-07
Shot at 2007-08-07
I created a box and changed the scale a bit, and then wanted to place the pivot @ bottom of the box... Well, of course I can do just with eyebolic, but I believe there is way to do it right.. Whenever I tried to grab a center of the root of the pivot (where two sqaures are) and snapped on the bottom edge, it did offset a tiny bit... then I had to zoom in to double check and so on...
So to summarize my point, I wanna know "how to grab exact center of the center of the root of the pivot" so that it will snap @ the bottom edge, EXACTLY...
Can anyone explain me how to do it right?
Thank you,
Snap can also do it, but takes a few more clicks and isn't as solid. Turn on snaps for Pivot and for Edge/Segment, this will let you snap a pivot to an edge. If you go to Options and turn on Use Axis Constraints, it will only snap along the active axis, in your case you want to activate Z.
Tricky bit is hovering your cursor around the pivot until Max gives you the Pivot highlight, telling you it will snap using the Pivot as the base. Once you get it, you can drag it down to an edge, letting go when Max highlights the edge you want.
Max's raycasting isn't very good, doesn't consistently highlight the elements you want to use. But snaps can work well if you work around the limits.
@ Per128,
I tried the "Align command" and what it allowed me to do was replace the object to the position of the pivot, not the other way around. Correct me if I miss something...
@ EricChadwick,
Tried with "snap for Pivot and Edge/Segment" option on (I was using 2.5d snap), but I cannot follow "tricky part" you mentioned.. I thoguht I supposed to do hovering over the center of the root of the pivot (where double squres are), and I didn't notice no change at all..
Shot at 2007-08-08
@ Vassago,
Ah-ha... never thought about it, and so far, this would be the one I can trust for all.
Anyway, Maya's snapping setup is far more intuitive in my opinion as well, so a few tricks have to be learned to make Max's behave more like Maya's.
(Sorry for no screens, don't have time to make a screen tutorial.)
First thing, without some clever scripting, there's nothing that can bind a snap type to a hotkey such as X for Grid, V for Verts. Maybe someday they'll put it in an update. For now though, my most preferred standard snap settings are verticies and midpoints, which can eventually grow into a system that kind of fits Maya's. If you want grids or something else, you'll have to right click the Snap Toggle button and change the setting, or write a script. It's not convenient, but it's how things are.
These are just general starter tips, it's going to require just plain old practice in the end, but I can answer your specific questions.
For the first question, to get the pivot exactly to the bottom of the plane/box. First you'll want to set "Affect Pivot Only" to a hotkey, which is the toggle equivilant of holding 'D' in Maya. Click and Hold your up & down gizmo, *THEN* press S to toggle snap. This will lock the snap point to the exact origin of the gizmo, then drag it to one of the bottom verts, or a midpoint for ease. (This of course, requires you to have Verticies or Midpoints as your checkmarked boxes in the snap settings.)
For your last question, when you're messing around with pivots, you still use the thin lined gizmos exactly as if you were moving around the object itself. The reason the 'boxy' gizmo isn't lined up with the regular one is because that's the Pivot's local orientation. In 2.5d, world or view oriented movement always has left & right movement on a gizmo pointing towards the right.
Hope it helps. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. What I ultimately recommend though, is starting a small project in Max and making modifications to your Maya workflow to learn a large amount of workarounds in one go. You won't regret it, and you'll learn tons.
Finally I met someone can read my mind bending situation, precisely.
Thank you so much for explanations over my questions.
Speaking of 'Switcher,' I guess you got the point. To be adapted to new interface in short, the emulator seemed work okay, but unless I am knowledgable over the Max Script, I am becoming an orpahn to get help.
Big issue on navigation of Max (regular) was holding 'Alt,' which was embeded into my brain from Maya experience. Whenever I tried to navigate an ortho viwports, in habbit, I tend to hold 'Alt' and as soon as MMB was clicked, the viwport turns into User viewport. Than I need to get back to the part I was working, etc... okay, I wll give it a shot of 2 wks of hell..
Adding a hotkey for "Affect Pivot Only" was great time saver.
After several re-trys, I came up to a stage that I finally understand the mystery of the "offsetting" gizmo (boxy one~), I believe.
To comprehead differnece between 2D, 2.5D, and 3D snap toggles, I had to played them with same setting for snap options:
(1) Vertices and Midpoints were "ON"
(2) Use Axis Constraints "OFF"
Then I tried snap in both 2.5D and 3D. Both ended up with slight offsetting thin line gizmo, that I was concerning. However, on trial of snapping the object onto a grid point, both work precisely... The only reason I could not understand was "the offset" position of the thin line gizmo. Honestly, still not clear of the theory, but at least now I know it doesn't bother the snap on exact point.
[ QUOTE ]
For your last question, when you're messing around with pivots, you still use the thin lined gizmos exactly as if you were moving around the object itself. The reason the 'boxy' gizmo isn't lined up with the regular one is because that's the Pivot's local orientation. In 2.5d, world or view oriented movement always has left & right movement on a gizmo pointing towards the right.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I hope you can come up with little bit further explanation on this issue, if you don't mind...
What about "Reference Coordinate System" (RCS) ? I saw Ian Joyner Gnomon video, and he mentioned that he prefer "Screen" while he's modeling. Is this all coming as individual interest, or there are a certain situation that prefer to use a specific RCS?
Thanks for your time, everyone~
After several re-trys, I came up to a stage that I finally understand the mystery of the "offsetting" gizmo (boxy one~), I believe.
To comprehead differnece between 2D, 2.5D, and 3D snap toggles, I had to played them with same setting for snap options:
(1) Vertices and Midpoints were "ON"
(2) Use Axis Constraints "OFF"
Then I tried snap in both 2.5D and 3D. Both ended up with slight offsetting thin line gizmo, that I was concerning. However, on trial of snapping the object onto a grid point, both work precisely... The only reason I could not understand was "the offset" position of the thin line gizmo. Honestly, still not clear of the theory, but at least now I know it doesn't bother the snap on exact point.
[ QUOTE ]
For your last question, when you're messing around with pivots, you still use the thin lined gizmos exactly as if you were moving around the object itself. The reason the 'boxy' gizmo isn't lined up with the regular one is because that's the Pivot's local orientation. In 2.5d, world or view oriented movement always has left & right movement on a gizmo pointing towards the right.
[/ QUOTE ]
So I hope you can come up with little bit further explanation on this issue, if you don't mind...
What about "Reference Coordinate System" (RCS) ? I saw Ian Joyner Gnomon video, and he mentioned that he prefer "Screen" while he's modeling. Is this all coming as individual interest, or there are a certain situation that prefer to use a specific RCS?
Thanks for your time, everyone~
[/ QUOTE ]
I feel stupid. Some wanker on MSN told me that you can indeed bind different snap types to hotkeys, and I never saw them, even though there's a whole goddamn page of them in Customize User Interface. Look at the 'Snap To...' hotkeys. It toggles the checkbox inside the snap tool. Not bad, Max, not bad.
On the whole boxy pivot thing vs. the thin pivot, it's your viewport that's causing the confusion. Gizmos always face up and to the right when you have 'View' selected as your transform type. This 'View' mode is much like moving an object in 'World' or 'Local' in Maya. All behaving differently. If you change this to World, or Local, it might better reflect something you're more familiar with in Maya.
I can't elaborate on RCS, as I've never heard of it. I might take some time to read up on it though, if I get the time.
I owe you a keg of beer..
By the way, What I meant about "offsetting" was not what you showed above...
Here are sequential shots to make "offsetting" thin line gizmo...
(1) The pivot has been relocated from its original spot. Snap options are as displayed. RCS is set to "View."
(2) "Affect Pivot Only" is ON. (Thanks Uly~)
(3) (2.5D) "Snap" command (toggle) is ON. (*As Uly has menitoned, I am holding the center of the pivot, BEFORE turn on Snap toggle, in order to lock the snap point to orgin of the gizmo.)
(4) Snapping onto Midpoint.
(5) Closed up shot of gizmo that has been snapped onto Midpoint. (I still see HUGE gap.)
(6) Same shot as (5). Just "Affect Pivot Only" is OFF.
(7) Additional Snap Option ("Grid Points") was ON. Snapping onto the Grid Point.
(8) Closed up shot of (thin line) gizmo. The gap is still visible, but snap was successful (snapped on exact Grid point I chose).
*Note: RCS (Refrence Coordinate System) is exactly what you are explaning, Uly. Pardon me if I'm looalike showing off, but it is not, trust me... I've spent seraching and reading for days and weeks, in order to figure this thing out, and maybe I am gaining some terminologies. Still having hard time to organize my comprehension over same topics between Max and Maya...
I purchased the NEX for maya as well as Switcher for MAX in order to learn how to fill the gape between Max and Maya, and NEX support the ability you mentioned... Take a look at the picture..
Thanks for adding up~
You can't drag it around on all 3 axis like you can in Maya by clicking the origin of the gizmo, but you can limit transformations to 2 axis.
[/ QUOTE ]
Maya can do that too out of the box, just ctrl click an axis on the gizmo, and you'll move along the plane of the other two. Not as nice as max (or maya + nex, at least in sub object mode) but it does the same.
however, max can also snap to a constraint without having to use the constrain to edge option in edit poly mode or even have buttons on the screen. Try hitting hotkey "S" to turn on the snap function and then hit "ALT+D" and what that will do is limit all movement based upon the axis handle highlighted (you can even select multiple handles). it's a godsend for Enviro guys, esp when you are trying to line up models relative to the grid or each other in the view ports.
snapping will become super fast when you are using the edit mode hot keys to make sub selections.
for me the max snappng system sucks plugins for that were some cool^^
It's been about 30 hours on Max without using of Switcher..
Countless 'UNDO-s' and 'change viewport' due to holding alt key for zooming on Orthos (instead of Ctrl + Alt) has been passed, and I am kinda feeling much comfortable. Appreciate for honest input for real leanring... now I hope I can seel the swicher's license for someone else...
@ cochtl,
Sweet~ thanks for tip!
One thing I don't get from sub object short keys is 'object level' ("6" is default hot key) All works fine except the "6" and not sure why...
I begun a mini project that I found from 3d magazine I subsribe, and bumped at another Snap related issue, so here we go...
The picture show my robot with left leg that is ready to mirror for its right one. Since there are 6 pieces polys, I tried to group them (named 'Test Group' ), and tried to relocate the pivot of the group onto Grid in the middle. I set the "D" for "Affect Pivot Only," and while the group was selected, hit "D", and gizmo didn't switch to Boxy Gizmo... So I opened 'Hierarchy' from command panel, and "Affect pivot only" is ON...
So is there something else I need to do in order to move the pivot of the Group?
(Reference Coordinate System was set to "View")
Thank you guys all in advance~
Well... Kinda already knew that, but thanks.
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Sorry about that, I only found out how to after a few weeks into maya, wouldn't want that to happen to anyone else.