Jungle Cabin

Armanguy

Hey guys im working on this cabin hoping to put it n the roboblitz editor when im done, right now i just have the basic shape of the cabin down and wondering if i could get help on the overall look of it and some crits and changes that i need to do. right now im just trying to get the basic shape down so when i goto normalmap it , it wont be such a pain in the behind. This cabin is meant for a jungle area somthing like farcy/crysis i want it too look detailed but not overly detailed. I want this to be a strong portfolio piece any help would be much apprecieted.also i will be trying to reduce the polycount i still need to optimize this bad boy.
What i want to know is what kind of other details can i put in or add to the cabin so it doesent look so empty.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/?action=view&current=wipshot2.jpg

Por@szek

U have couple of polies to reduce, but i think u can easy push it on polycount to around 6000 or higher, especially if its crysis like next gen. I think U can add more detail. Some barrels, crates around. Some planks or metal plates around a building. Its on the pillars so this cabin can stand on some shore with some water flora like cattails, grass, lilies. U can even add some gantry/platform from stairs, then U could add some boat nearby. Can be even sinking. Some tree on the shore with Tarzan like ropes on it should also improve the scene. Maybe some clothes on some lines near the building. Some furnitures inside the building with yellow/ orange light from inside and volumetrics from window + exterior with green/blue lights should create pretty decent mood.
Hope it helps.

Armanguy

Hey guys whats up, lont time no update i finished up the low-poly and im working on the high-poly.some notes i didnt add windows or entrance theres some overlapping problems but all in all i like what i have so far what do you guys think?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v92/armanguy/?action=view&current=wipshot5.jpg

oobersli

not sure if doing a high poly version for something so large is really needed. You could easily create the same look with crazybump or whatnot and save yourself a lot of time. I would focus on putting more geometry for interesting detail into your lowpoly. From your last post of your low poly, I see that everything is still pretty basic. Add more detail to the roof and give it thickness. The measurements seem a tad off, the door is pretty short or really wide. The floor could use some more detail to make it uneven and broken up like the rails.

Armanguy

thanks for the crit dude but im trying to work ith high poly models more and this is some good practice for me but i will be using crazy bump aswell

Asthane

Looks to me like you need to think more about how your building is put together for the high poly and work to make it... well, more than just a geometric box with mathematically machined sides. What happens at the peak of the roof where the two sheets of tin meet? There's a cap over the whole thing. What supports the roof? Are walls of thin tin REALLY going to be that flat? Where did they get all those identical 50-foot planks of wood that look like they were installed yesterday?

A lot of these things low-poly modelers don't typically have to think about until the skinning phase, but you have to remember that with high-poly, this _IS_ your skinning/detailing phase. Alternately, it could be that you're chaining yourself to the low poly, which could use a few of those details itself. It looks to me like most of what I see in the highpoly shot would likely be deleted over the course of the project to make way for more unique pieces (Windows, torn or warped tin, etc) and to connect smoothly with said pieces, leaving... really... nothing to actually comment on.

Armanguy

hey thanks for the post man i was also thingking that i need to change it up and add more detail i also do think its kinda wierd that the rook is that thin ill take you crit into consideration! thanks for being honest

Armanguy

update:

http://www.game-artist.net/forums/attach...in-wipshot4.jpg

almighty_gir

too lazy to click... are the img tags broke?

Keg

sorta hard to see an image that requires you to login :P

Armanguy

really sorry about that i thought it would work without you having to log in:

EarthQuake

You have some serious scale problems here, the boards on the deck are massive, and the stairs are massive as well.

Armanguy

yeah i need to fix that my brother pointed it out to me yesterday :P

jgarland

I agree with EQ. One board on the deck is nearly half the width of an entire door. You should try scaling the texture down.

I also think you could add a bit more geometry in certain areas. The roof comes to mind. The texture looks like corrugated aluminum, but the geometry shows no width whatsoever. You could easily add just a few more polygons to remedy this, although I suppose it depends on how a player will view the environment.

adam

I was going to give a critique but wanted to know this first: What sort of game would this be in? You said you wanted to throw it in Unreal3/Robotblitz so thats a good start, but what sort of game would you see this in?

Armanguy

a jungle themed game, mostly for a mod im working jurassic rage its based in a dense jungle with alot of vegitation.

nfrrtycmplx

looks more like a tool shed... "jungle cabin's" usually have thatch roofs and are constructed a lot like a basket of sorts...

everyone should always google image search their subject before starting on it... it's a good gut-check... photo-reference photo-reference photo-reference.

ElysiumGX

It's too clean. I imagine a jungle cabin would be worn down by the elements. Try adjusting the wood texture to look more aged, as it appears to be newly purchased and treated. Not realistic. And also, try to have fewer straight edges. Show more pieces sticking out more than others along the floor and walls. Add some trash, like old tires, and barrels.

Use reference, as the architecture of this cabin is horrible. There are no horizontal boards. Decide if you want a cabin that's inhabitable, or simply a storage shed, as this seems to be neither.

Mark Dygert

You're off to a good start and some great suggestions have been made. To build off of what Will suggests, I think you should;

- Desaturate the wood and darken it a bit in certain areas and bleach it out in others.
- If someone was to ask you what color a jungle is you would more than likely say green. Yet I see no green. Jungles grow and over take things especially wood. Moss would be the first to set in along places less traveled and hardly touched. You might get green growth on the supports and they would more than likely discolor as they reached the ground.
- Think about people walking around the outside, what areas are high traffic and what is going to disturb/accelerate the aging process? In level design you can use this to draw players to certain areas they should check out. What is it you want them to find or explore? Is there a med kit around back? Is there a radio inside that triggers a cinematic? Give them subtle cues but don't beat them over the head with it.
- Jungles are wet humid places, think about what that would do to the materials you have.
- If this is a fully unwrapped model and isn't using tiles, you should paint or bake a bit of AO into it as well as many other details.
- It helps to create a few prop bushes around the supports to help disguise model after it is placed in the environment.
- As Will suggested think about props. These shacks are not near a grocery store or source of power. If there is a radio where is the antenna? Anything you can add into the scene that gives it that extra feeling that someone actually uses this place. You have to force yourself to look past the mechanics of a shack. It's not just wood and metal, its a place you need to think about how it was/is used.

Armanguy

vig i love you! awesome paint over, bes crit i have ever gotten on a piece!

Armanguy

adam

You've taken to Vig's suggested nicely, however, there's quite a bit more to do to this piece to really sell it as a believable structure.

First we'll talk about some basic mistakes that are easily corrected. A little planning ahead of time on the next piece you'll do and you may find these 'mistakes' are easily avoidable.:

-Texture scale is off. Your wood planks on the ground are far to thick and entirely too long for this sort of structure. They'd be a bit thinner, and definitely broken up in length in to 2 or 3 planks long. As well, the corrugated sheet metal roof texture is far too large. Each corrugation is probably only 3" in width, whereas on this model they look like they're half a foot wide.
-You've given some areas 'life', where as the rest got ignored. Case in point: The railing compared to everything else. The railing looks lived in. It makes the building looks used, old, and dilapidated yet the rest of the build speaks nothing of these characteristics. The wood planks could be used for some interesting silhouettes if they were broken up in length, chipped at their ends, and overall uneven. Same goes for the sheet metal roof. Those pieces do nothing for the silhouette, they just create sharp edges that deter from the 'weathered' look the railings are giving. If this is for Unreal 3, you can certainly add the details.

On to aesthetics...

-While I agree with Vig that the colours needed to be desaturated, I think the right colours could have been added in to give this piece some aesthetic pleasantries. She metal like that, unless its brand spankin' new, won't be that silver/aluminum looking. They're generally NOT coated and rust very easily (they're cheap and are affordable for replacement). As well, they are almost always painted over and the paint chips away. Consider adding some colours to the roof.
-Theres nothin' going on inside the cabin. It's just a cracked open door with a floor being revealed. No lighting, no broken windows, not secondary objects, no nothing. I'd give the inside a prop pass (bunk beds, wood stove, card table, wooden chairs, toilet hole, throw rug, gun rack, etc.)
-The outside area needs props badly. What is this cabin used for? Do poachers hide out here while they sleep? If so they're equipment may be hanging around out side. Or was it an old cabin used back in Nam? Or a gorilla militia hellbent on making their government fear the people, rather than the people fearing the government? Consider this scenes 'story' and you'll find yourself without a loss of ideas for how to make this place look lived in.

I hope you don't mind but I took a few minutes and painted over some of the stuff I've said here. I didn't want to take more than 10 minutes on it so I've left a few things out, but this should be a good start:

Armanguy

Just a quick update before i go camping:

Wells

any chance of seeing the flats?

notman

That's a much better improvement. I still like some of the colors Adam chose for the outer walls. I'd also ad more breaks in the floor planks. Maybe even some knot holes and splits, to help break it up and look more natural.
I thought this might be a good reference for you (althought not in the jungle, so it lacks the rot look): http://www.varmintal.com/tinroof.jpg

I was also thinking the roof should have some moss rather than grass... but that's just my opinion

Mark Dygert

Now we're cooking with gas. I really like the disjointed metal sheets on the roof. Any chance of really bringing that out by painting one, like Adam suggested? OR maybe you can hit at repairs by having the top most sheet not as rusty as the others. You already hinted at repairs with the metal sheet next to the door. Maybe add a tool box next to the opening to help draw attention to it. Depending on what the cabin will be used for you could open up the roof and add a ladder so players can spy on and surprise whoever is inside. People love options in game play. If you can engineer a few ways into this place, thru the floor, thru a window, thru the front door, thu the back door, thru the roof, you can give the players a lot of freedom.

Back to the textures, I would add hints of green to the wood textures, as well as painted clumps of moss to areas less traveled and parts that touch the ground. The vegitation clumps around the base pillars is a nice touch, but paint some darker/lighter green grass in there to help fake shadows and highlights. I used the grass brush included in PhotoShop in the paint over. Set the background & foreground colors to different shades of green and paint away. You might want to come up with your own custom grass brushes to save you time in the future and to break up the monotony of the grass from level to level. I would also size the brush down and paint some shorter grass around the bottom to help blend the clump.

Like Adam suggested and I'm very fond of doing, put yourself in this scene. You now live here for the next two weeks and start asking yourself questions.
How would you light the place at night? Would you put lights out on the posts so you can see things coming up to the cabin and hopefully scare off any wild things that might come after your food? What kind of lights are they? Torches or electric? If electric can you string cables from light to light? it might keep people from hopping over the railing in specific spots.
How did that step break, did you bash your head when it broke? Was there a lot of blood? Did you pass out and drool all over the steps?
Is there a lake near by would you go fishing? If so where is the boat? How can that be placed so you can get up onto the roof? Where do you clean your fish? Normally gut tables are outside, they STINK!
If there isn't a lake nearby and there is a boat does that mean this area floods in the rainy season? What does that do to things?
What supplies do you need? What would you do with the trash?

This is your chance to help sell the story. Your job isn't to hit the player over the head with narration or a cinematic (like other department feel they need to do) but visually explain the world to the player. The more we environmental artists can explain with a single still shot the less time other departments have to spend stopping the game to explain things. Even if the player is never going to know why that board broke, or who was repairing the roof it will give them a deeper world to explore.

I have always liked games/levels that reward you for going down the path less traveled even if it was just a graphical easter egg. Do you want players to explore the back of the cabin and tell their friends "nothing back here" or do you want them to say "Oh crap come look at the fish guts on this table, is that a finger!?" then one of them climbs up on the roof "oh man you can get on the roof!?"

It's easy to get caught up in the mechanics, wood floor, metal roof, door in the front. But the really good environmental/prop artists take it to the next step and those are the guys that get noticed over the guy that has a portfolio full of dumpsters.

It's looking great btw, I also think you're ready for a prop pass. I would design the props in a way they can be taken out or added to other areas. That way you can copy this cabin and change the props to break up the repetition.

Ott

Fix the steps. If that is an 8 foot tall doorway, those stairs are knee high at least.

I have a hard time understanding how the same "grassy planes" that grow on the ground are growing within the cracks of wood, and on top of a sheet metal roof. Even moss would probably stay off of that.

The green color is terrible.

Stop worrying so much about Normal maps and crazy-bumping when you still need a lot of practice with basic texture work, UV layout, and construction principles.

Mark Dygert

The grassy planes on the roof are more than likely my fault since I put them in my paint over =P Thats not to say you can't have grass growing out of gunk, on a metal roof. I live in Washington State anything that doesn't move, sprouts green.

Pollen + leaves/dust leads to mold/moss.
Mold/moss leads bigger things such as grass and tree seedlings taking root.

I understand people in other climates wouldn't see things the same. It falls to gathering accurate ref and knowing how different materials are effected when left out in different climates.

I was thinking that leaves gunk would build up in the cracks, break down the metal and become host to plant life. Image searches as well as personal experience lets me know that moss grows on just about anything. At least that is how I would explain it to my AD.

Slum

Vig's grassy example is completely legit, and in his defense, his paint-over suggested more moss and leafy-stuff, not just grass planes stuck on the metal roof.

Armanguy: I'd say you've got a little while to go, but you are definitely taking the crits well and applying them. Keep pushing forward.

Ott

Vig's example was a good choice of direction, but if this is legitimately an overgrown jungle area, there is going to be a LOT more coverage and growth than what we see here. And, it would be like you said - more mossy and coverage than grass, which it sorta looks like now. I would expect those support poles and the wood to be covered and mossy and rotting.

Don't be afraid to add more browns and yellows on random other colors. Mossy / grassy isn't bright green.

Mark Dygert

The grassy planes could still be used, but vary the size more and have them cover and hang over the edge. Ott brings up a really good point about adding varying colors to the grass/plant life. Some of it would be at different stages of dieing. Also don't forget about the shadows/highlights I talked about earlier.