Settled in Toronto
[important question at the bottom if u don't wanna read the rest]
Yay, im finally here! on the grid... with the net and the phone and the tv.
The country [canada in case ur wondering] is pretty awesome. Its actually hot here in Toronto [what? that coming from an indian?] cuz the sun pierces the skin. But yeah, im used to most things now. everything from "avoid Church street" to the bus system to the heat.
I'm living in North York.. if u want my address [for whatever reason?], just pm me.
The only thing that's strikingly weird is that my building SERIOUSLY doesn't have a 13th floor.... WTF! superstitious to the max!
Oh, and my school offers this programme called CyberArts which is all about art skills on computer and even traditional. I got accepted after an interview, and a display of my works [lol... they liked that stuff?] so yeah, thats funky.
now for questions:
1) any good universities in Toronto offering courses in 'what i [we] do?' cuz i heard this place is good for that kinda stuff?
2) i bought a new computer [$1100 cuz im exempt from paying taxes] and its:
-Core2Duo 2.66GHz
-ASUS P5W DH Deluxe motherboard [or something to that effect]
-2 GB RAM
-NVidia GeForce 8600GT 256MB
im able to play new games [doom 3, medieval 2 total war] on 'all high' graphics, yes, but is this setup gonna help my polygon churning?
PS: expect to some some new sketches when i get a transformer for my scanner
Yay, im finally here! on the grid... with the net and the phone and the tv.
The country [canada in case ur wondering] is pretty awesome. Its actually hot here in Toronto [what? that coming from an indian?] cuz the sun pierces the skin. But yeah, im used to most things now. everything from "avoid Church street" to the bus system to the heat.
I'm living in North York.. if u want my address [for whatever reason?], just pm me.
The only thing that's strikingly weird is that my building SERIOUSLY doesn't have a 13th floor.... WTF! superstitious to the max!
Oh, and my school offers this programme called CyberArts which is all about art skills on computer and even traditional. I got accepted after an interview, and a display of my works [lol... they liked that stuff?] so yeah, thats funky.
now for questions:
1) any good universities in Toronto offering courses in 'what i [we] do?' cuz i heard this place is good for that kinda stuff?
2) i bought a new computer [$1100 cuz im exempt from paying taxes] and its:
-Core2Duo 2.66GHz
-ASUS P5W DH Deluxe motherboard [or something to that effect]
-2 GB RAM
-NVidia GeForce 8600GT 256MB
im able to play new games [doom 3, medieval 2 total war] on 'all high' graphics, yes, but is this setup gonna help my polygon churning?
PS: expect to some some new sketches when i get a transformer for my scanner
Replies
anyways, you'd think this thread is dead. and it should be. but i've actually got something to say/ask.
I'm an instructor at my school for a summer camp in which we're teaching Maya 7.0 to some students [from other schools and stuff aswell]. Now apart from being a good job [i might be getting paid after they check a few things with the Toronto District School Board] i felt it would also be a nice thing to "show-off" as such. Now i was wondering. does stuff like being an instructor go into resumes and portfolios? or am i just doing this for the money? and if they do... how exactly do they fit in.
as weird as the queries may be... im just wondering.
Oh, and a belated happy canada day to all the canadians on the board. just 1 question about that: why was downtown toronto half-dead on 1 July? i was expecting some festivities but....
anyways,
peace!
$8 an hour, at school, teaching 3d art to kids during summer vacation. i couldn't be much happier
thats how I got started. I actualy learned tons durring that time. They ask the most obscure questions.
okay, new question: how does one get a job at an EBGames store?
i live on eglington avenue, and theres a store 45 minutes away from my house where i'd like to work part-time, but when i mailed canadarecruiting [at] ebgames, they asked for a resume..... uhhh..... a resume to work at a store? some advice on the topic would be great!
thanks
Also, as Slume mentioned, typically you just go into a store and ask for an application. You shouldn't need a resume until you reach a more professional level. General labor usually only requires applications. At least that's how it works in the States.
I live in down town Toronto.
If you want to avoid places, just the whole north west end is a good idea and you'll be ok.
But yeah, when i went to the store, they explained that i need to deposit a resume. i guess they wanna know my software knowledge, so i'll send something along those lines in!
anyways, yeah church street is just a bit weird. As for north west,.... markham or vaughan or something u mean? yeah im in north york so i'm a 'few' miles away. thanks for the tip!
as for sushi, only eaten it once, but yeah i'll check that place out! i think its near my dad's office [the consulate lol] or my bro's college [U of T]?
thanks for the welcomes. and the advice haha! so fat i've only eaten at burger king, McD, Pizza hut and dominoes [but those exist every where...] oh. and 'pizza pizza.' lol.
peace!
i don't know why 'm posting this, but i'm just hyper at the moment. now i know what it feels like to be payed for hard work........
now i must meditate, or my head'll pop
If you want to avoid places, just the whole north west end is a good idea and you'll be ok.
[/ QUOTE ]
My friend (read: white) lives at Jane & Finch, no lie. I've been walking around there, drunk off my ass, a few times at 3AM and man, sketchy shit. I was never scared for my life, but my asshole would clench up every time a car would drive by at a medium speed in fear of being 'capped'.
but for good reason!
i don't want to pollute the GD threads with another thread which is pretty much based on the same topic, so i'm putting this here:
i'm in 12th grade at don mills collegiate institute at toronto.
i'm a part of the CyberARTS programme, and as a part of our curriculum, we have to prepare letters etc. for university admission.
this happened sooner than i expected, and i see myself thrust into a world of 'degrees' 'courses' and 'university'
needless to say, i'm wondering about my many options in this city, so i know what i should be applying too
FIRST OFF:
What courses should i be looking at? I want to attain a bachelors degree, but i want to leave my options open. I want to be able to go into 'something else' if my game art career wishes / hopes die. however, i'd like to take a degree that'll help me in this pursuit as much as it can.
i _do_ have other interests i want to pursue, though not as strongly. so i was wondering if i could be given a list of things which you guys think may help? not nevessarily a list, but just an indication of what type of things i should be looking for?
eg. does a B Arch really look good in an environment artist's resume? does a BDes help? how about product design? etc etc
SECONDLY:
This one is more specific to those who know about toronto.
I want to continue my post-secondary education in this city. Many reasons, including financial, restrict me to this city at the moment. As such, i want to know what you guys would say are the better options of universities in this city / nearby. I want to go to OCAD, specifically for Graphic Design, though i may want to try out at sheridan or UofT or Ryerson U etc.
I hope you guys can help me out here.
even if you cant, thanks for your time in reading this post.
cheers guys!
any help is greatly appreciated!
I can't help you in terms of which campus to go to, but if you're really keen on getting into the games industry you don't need to get into a 'digital art' specific course. In my opinion, you need to find a course with a solid foundation in traditional art. In a course like that, you'll (hopefully) be taught the key fundamentals in colour theory, forms, perspective, human anatomy, lighting theory, explore different art mediums, etc.
You've already proven that you can use max, mudbox, photoshop. You just need to improve on your art skills in which you can implament into these tools.
A graphic design course will most likely be very broad and will lightly touch on 3D (if at all). It will explore a lot of avenues like web development, corporate identities (logos, business cards and such), screen work, print work, and similarly related topics.
Depending on the course, they will spend more time teaching you the software than any real art fundamentals (I know they certainly didn't teach much of that at my course :P).
You just need to think long and hard about what you really want to do and why you want to do it. I wish you the best of luck, mate.
-caseyjones
Applications: Game art (anywhere), Commercial Graphic Design, Museum curator, Web Designer
Architectural/environment interest = Architecture
Application: Level design (yes I've seen this listed as a plus on some jobs), Architecture (obviously), cad/drafting
I tend to think that industrial and or product design are less directly applicable to game art than they are their own fields, however any artistic experience can relate to this field. You've got to design and build/create something, so if you've done so before in some medium, then you have applicable experience.
Edit: as far as backups go, this is why my major is in Game and Simulation programming. Something will always need to be simulated, even if it's not a game.
If you're serious about getting into this business then I'd say a good foundation would be in either Illustration and or Animation. You'll be eating, sleeping and breathing art/drawing non stop and should push your skills. A lot of people say its good to have that understanding of 2d before you get into 3d, and I more or less agree, although there are quite a few exceptions.
I would say Seneca College's Post Grad gaming program is a good place to study in the Toronto area, seeing as that's what I took and can vouch for. Thing is though, its Post grad, meaning you need some sort of diploma/degree from some studies in the arts to get in. I got my diploma for studying 2d and 3d animation, also from Seneca. But a lot of previous gaming students came from either sheridan or Ocad.
I know centennial offers a gaming program as well, it may not be post grad....so you should look into it that if you'd like to fast track.
also, I'd just like to say that if you are determined and motivated enough you could easily learn all you need to know on your own just by scouring the net and forums like polycount. The amount of knowledge and experience you'll find out there are truly invaluable if you know that a career in game art is for you. I can honestly say Ive learned much more just on my own than I ever did in school. However, I do understand that starting out on your own is tough, and all you really need is some1 just to show you the way in the beginning. From the looks of it tho, you already got a handle on the basics
Well, I sorta feel like you either really want to be in the gaming industry, or you don't wanna be in it enough to actually be in it. But if you think that with some hard work and dedication you'll be ready and wanting to be in it, then I agree with CaseyJones and think that traditional art first is the way to go.
If you really want a bachellor's degree, well, Sheridan's animation program offers it. However, the impression I've gotten of them is that the program has kinda gone downhill from what it used to be, and four years is a little long and a lot of money for just studying animation (not 3-D) and the random useless electives you'll have to do to get the degree. As for myself, I was in the same program as EricV and agree that it was really good. If you're gonna do it, go for the 3-year program. It works out best cause in the end you can go into the same gaming program as Eric took but it's a lot less money, and you get a really strong drawing and art base.
Other programs... I think centenniel is pretty good, but I haven't checked it out too much. If you wanna do an animation course mostly, then you can check out Max the Mutt, I've heard some decent things about it.
Btw, make sure to stay the hell away from gaming or other art programs from places like the Institute or Art and Design. They're basically useless garbage, indicated by how you don't need a portfolio just a lot of money.
Otherwise... well, OCAD can be good, but it can also be garbage. I have a friend in the Illustration program and it seems really good. But don't do fine arts. Not unless you're up for a lot of really effed up art relating to feelings and 'what the artist was really thinking' and a lot of other crap :P U of T is a good school, but I don't know what you'd be going there for. York's Fine Arts program is crap. Ryerson... well, you'd have to go there for something specific. And otherwise... hmm, well, can't really think of much else that's too close to the city. I think there's other stuff, but this is what I'm most familiar with.
And ps. you might wanna look into a source about Sheridan's program that is less biased than me because Seneca is sorta a rival to them. :P
Quoted for truth.
One thing though about college, while it can be more art focused, it can be more difficult to transfer to other countries. University degree's are often qualifiers for extended visa's in other countries. (unless you take engineering or law or med etc).
If you don't know what you plan on doing in the future, my suggestion would be to work your highschool grades, go for something in university. You can take art related courses at UofT. But my suggestion would look into some Graphic Design related courses at Ryerson. A degree might serve you better in the long run. There are great courses at Ryerson that run the full gammot of Design related fields. And you get things like drawing ability, colour theory, history and techniques. I've had a lot of friends go through the Film and GCM (graphics/communication/management) programs at Ryerson and loved it.
Whichever route you choose it's been my experience that if you want to show yourself off here, and in the video game industry then you need to eat/sleep/breath your portfolio. It's something I wish I did more of as I'm only now getting pieces worthy of my own.
Take some time to figure things out, you have plenty of years to get an education, perfect your talent and find a job you love. I can only offer advice on my own experiences. As I'm neither working nor ready to work in the industry around here.
PS, that EB Games at Eg and Yonge is the one I go to all the time! When you hit 19 and wanna hit the pub there's a great one right across the road. haha
George Brown also offers a GD program and it's located downtown toronto. I believe most colleges and universities will offer it.
If you want to teach art, you'll need a bachelor's degree, either in fine art or one of the 3 mentioned programs above from sheridan (they are all 4 year degree programs now) and another 1 or 2 years in teachers college/university after that.
Ryerson and Seneca are always names that pop up when people talk about good programs.
If you want into gaming, there's probably going to be a fair number of years worth of starving student artist... the trifecta of poverty. (students have no money, artists will make no money, and student artists use 2x the materials that a pro artist will use in order to learn :P )
I feel there's more opportunity for a graphic designer, but your skills will turn away from illustration and animation which are more needed in strong production art in gaming or tv/film.
@CaseyJones : well to be perfectly honest, I want to, 100% go into 3d realtime art. However, I’ve heard that it’s not a good idea to do game art courses, because you can generally teach yourself what they teach you over 5 years. As such, I want a degree that I can use to keep me busy/employed elsewhere, but at the same time, help me in the direction of my ultimate goal.
I thought of choosing graphic design because they’d probably teach us about colour circles, tone, tints, and other colour theory which I have _never_ had exposure to. At the same time, I enjoy the topics that you had listed, and as such, see myself as enjoying the 5 years in university.
Thank you for the good wishes, and the advice
@Vailias : thanks for those examples, and explanations. I’m not entirely sure about my interest in product design, so I’ll have to think about it before I make that decision to even apply.
Thanks for letting me know your major. I suppose it’s helped you out in your life? I’ll look into things like that as my backup too!
Thanks!
@EricV : thanks for the advice. I was thinking of a few courses along those lines, I have them listed below. As for the programs in actual ‘game art / design’… I want to avoid them. I feel that I can teach myself better than the plethora of ‘behind-the-times’ universities out there. That is also the general response I tend to get from many people, including a few polycounters a long time ago when I’d asked about education.
As for motivation: there’s plenty. I’m sure that if I keep improving the way I have been, then I can do well to get into this industry. Unfortunately, my pessimism - and my parents - want me to get a degree ‘just in case.’ I personally feel it would be great if it were interesting, and served my ultimate goal at the same time.
@Mezz: Haha, I’d do almost anything to get into this industry. I really want to be in there. I’ll look up other sources about Sheridan, as I’ve heard a lot of good about it lol When you say ‘don’t do fine arts,’ are you referring to the illustration program? I had an interest in that, from the open house that they had hosted. Max the Mutt seems interesting, as does Centenniel. Unfortunately, neither of those are degree-providing institutes. I will, however, look into them further. I’d rather not focus in on a narrow path, and keep my options open as I move towards my final objective [a career in the game art industry].
Thanks for all the help in those few paragraphs! Real golden tips there!
@ Saidin311 : that’s pretty much why I’d rather go to a university for a degree than a college. My dad being a diplomat gives me a lot of options in terms of travelling with minimal expenses etc, and basically means I might end up in Europe for further education / career. I do have an interest in Ryerson as my university. They do seem to have some interesting courses, though the website is acting up at the moment, so I cant look around too well.
As for ‘plenty of years’. Well, my situation is interesting:
My dad’s a diplomat in the city of Toronto. As such, I get to pay domestic fees for uni. However, if I apply after he leaves [2 years from now] then I have to pay international fee, which is literally 6 times as much, in most cases. I can’t afford that.
Thanks for the advice. Despite you not working in the industry atm, it still does help.
As for hitting 19, gotta wait till dec 4 next year =( lol
@sir-knight : my portfolio is my biggest worry at the moment. I don't have a good 2d / traditional arts portfolio, and it scares me to death. i try my best to get some good traditional art going, but... its not good enough.
i have a few months to kick myself into gear. i don't know how i'll do it. my gf has offered to teach me , but we can only really do shit at lunch... so i have like 40 minutes every few days. i go home and start my homework, ending the load by 23 00 on average. last night, i wanted to art a bit, and i couldnt, cuz of the workload. weekends? i need to work. i need the money to help fund my education along with my parents, despite them funding it to their best abilities. i end up with minimal time for myself. but i dont really care about that anymore. this whole summer vacation went by and i hadn't even spent a total of 7 hours with my friends. i don't need to chill and relax. i'm doing my best to push myself in through the door of this industry. get into a good university, get a good degree, get a good job.
i just need the time
and i just realized the above paragraph sounds so emo, but i truly to get worried when i think of future prospects.
anyway, back to homework....
Thanks again guys. If anybody else has any ideas, I’d love to hear em.
Currently, my plans are:
OCAD – Graphic Design
OCAD - Illustration
Sheridan – Animation
Sheridan – Illustration
And opinions / suggestions are more than welcome
thanks again!
Also, as sir-knight was saying, yes. It is VERY hard to get into the programs at Sheridan right out of High School. You have to be quite a good drawer already to get in, and there are lots of people who apply.
So I should suggest something else, I realize... there are other courses you can look into called 'Art Fundamentals'. A few places offer this course, and while it's not animation or illustration, they tend to touch on a lot of the bases you're hoping for, including colour theory and perspective and life drawing, etc. It's only a one year course, and if you're dedicated to working hard while doing this course, then in my experince you'll get into an animation/illustration program the year after. BUT--I HIGHLY suggest you don't take Art Fundamentals at Sheridan. I have a bunch of friends that did this and it's basically a cash grab for the college. Seneca offers this program and it is very good, and I think you can find it at other places like Centenniel. So I highly suggest putting this type of course as one of your 3rd or 4th choices when you apply with OUAC. (I believe it's OUAC I'm thinking of...?)
The 4 choices you've listed are very good ones, but I'm gonna do Seneca a favour and pitch for them again :P You won't get a degree, but they still have a very good animation program. I'm not saying you have to go there, but I think it's worth checking out.
You can get tours of all these places too, btw. Sheridan has an open house where they show off their space and talk about their program, and Seneca gives tours one-on-one to show you the Animation Arts Center and you can talk to any students in the program. (I have still have friends there, so if you stop by, say hi! Lol even though you don't know them :P)
I'm sure anywhere else you're thinking about has tours and I highly suggest you take them up on the offer. I found the tours I took of Sheridan and Seneca when I was deciding to be incredibly helpful for me.
Anyway, not to put pressure on you, really all you need to worry about in the end is how hard YOU work. Any of the programs have good things to teach, so if you work REALLY hard, you will be able to improve a ton and make a great portfolio.
Sorry about another block of paragraphs :P Hope it's helpful again!
Look around for community centers or colleges that have both instructed and uninstructed life drawing sessions, that's probably going to be the most important element of a portfolio to get you into any of those programs. You need LOTS of life drawing practice and time, develop your sense of proportion, balance, movement and weight in your drawings.
It's tough to know what the portfolio reviewers will be looking for when they look at your portfolio since it seems to be slightly different every year... and considering they take in thousands of ports each application period... you literally have about 20 seconds to wow them.
Getting into animation was scarier than getting a job in animation... the next scary bit is when that first job ends and you have to look for the next one :P
edit:
I should also add, that I know a few people who finished the animation program at algonquin college and tried to reapply into sheridan's animation program and had their portfolios rejected as well. I 've also heard of industry professionals getting accepted back into sheridan's animation program for 'refresher courses' so if that says anything about what they accept as portfolios, I don't know what their beef is.
I tried for 2 years to get into an animation program out of highschool, I know some who applied to sheridan 6 times, I don't know if he ended up getting in or not.
thanks for all the advice guys. its helped me think up wat tracks may and may not help me.
right now i have to do scholarship research, and on that path i found out some other courses etc that i wanted to check up on. let me know how much these are 'worth' for the industry [realtime art]
Bachelor of Applied Arts
- Creative Advertising
[at Humber college]
Bachelors in Computer Science
- Computer science
[ Ryerson U]
Bachelors of Fine Arts [BFa]
- Image Arts [new media, film studies] A brochure
[ Ryerson U]
Bachelor of Technology
- Graphic Communications
[Ryerson U]
Diploma
- Digital Animation
[Centennia]
Diploma
- Graphic design
[Centennia]
so my choices now include those ^
any idea if they may or may not help me in my goal ?
thanks again guys!
this forum is a ton of help for this
EDIT: im considering diplomas now, cuz the placement might really help.
It's really all about your portfolio.
None of those degrees are going to hurt you or necessarily help you more in getting a games job. It is nice to have some kind of degree on your resume just to show you finished school. But it's ultimately not going to be a huge factor.
People get hired for great portfolios and having great personalities. Possess those and you're in.
if that's true, then i guess all i should really worry about is my tradtitional art skills.
i seriously haveta make time for that stuff x x...
thanks for the advice man
i was just hoping for things thatd give me a boost or watnot
Will creative advertising or graphic design or graphic communications help you with gaming portfolios? No, I highly doubt that. If you are interested in doing any of those things, than that is different. But since you've said you're most interested in gaming, I don't know that they are a great choice.
If you want to go into art in video games, and are worried about your traditional skills, then I really highly recommend either a good fine arts program, or an illustration or animation program. These types of programs will help you with those skills. I think the first schools and their programs that you mentioned earlier in this post are better options.
Please don't think this post is in any way an attack on you or your choices, I'm just worried you're becomming obsessed with what school you gotta take for what program for what degree, that you're losing focus on what's really important to you.
Just keep in mind what you WANT to be doing when making a choice, because, this is 3-4 years of your life you'll be doing it!
anyway:
I have been working at a graphic design firm here in Toronto for the past 2 months of summer vacation. Fresh out of high school, and the youngest one there, I joined as an intern. Luckily, i was taken very seriously. I was put on multiple projects, and each of them were large-scale.
My first completed one went live a few days ago here.
The banner with the 'shop2school' thing? Click on that to enter [of course] and that is the project i was a team member on.
I'd done ~25% of the artwork, and 100% of the animations.
This post isnt just to show you guys the work, but also to thank you all.
Sure it's not 3d, nor is it video game related, but polycount has helped me learn a lot that is needed by an art industry. Determination, maturity, and openness to criticism are the first that come to mind.
So: thanks to everybody who ever helped, or even dropped an encouraging word
I'm done the internship tomorrow, but they've invited me to keep working with them in later years / during school year, and that obviously feels great!
Either way, 2 weeks of summer break left before university starts [graphic design in OCAD]. Time to start some serious 3ding that ive been itching to do.
Cheers guys!
Any way you could show it without being required to sign up for some deal/offer/junk mail?