E A R T H L I N G S

Makkon

I just finished watching this documentary at a friend's house about human dependency on animals. I have been very deeply affected. We truely reap what we sow.

WARNING: This documentary is explicitly violent and disturbing, and every bit of it is real. If you wish to remain in blissfuly irresponsible ignorance, do NOT watch this film! You have been warned.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GhxKnys7Ryw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=7sRiH_Owq9U
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N8U9dw-9U4E

bounchfx

I want to watch it, but I don't? I don't want to see any fucked up shit, but wtf, blissfuly irresponsible?

Mishra

yes, the things that happen to animals are very bad for the animals. but they are good for people mostly. unnecessary cruelty to animals is unwarranted, as is the excessive wearing of fur imo, but overall animal suffering benefits humanity. i was a vegetarian for five years, went to tons of animal rights protests all over the country with my family, and eventually saw through these things.

Makkon

Animal suffering is NOT NECISSARY to benifit humanity. People can still get their damn food all the same, you havn't had time to watch this documentary. Watch it. Please, watch it.

McIlroy

I can't watch that . I love animals and hate most humans I might go postal . It's a good thing I didn't have the authority or the launch codes for our Nuclear arsenal after I watched a video of baby seals being clubbed or the entire world would be a Radioactive fireball right now .

Mishra

i haven't watched this particular documentary no, i have however seen several others dealing with the same. and it is not necessary to benefit humanity, but neither is electricity. we don't need it, but it sure makes things a lot better. not necessarily suffering mind you, but killing them, doing medical experiments, eating them, these all benefit humanity. i am very much for animal testing if it will benefit humans. i will often not buy products that have not been tested on animals.

Ramucho

this one is definitely smart and touching i recomand it

Makkon

Mishra: the moral cost of providing people with utilities is far less... FAR LESS than that of meat food production and processing.
The documentary covers more than just food. It goes over pets, entertainment, and medical and scientific experimentation. This documentary is not sensational, and it doesn't cram trivial facts down your mouth. I suggest you watch it.

Mishra

it does sound a little different than other documentaries, i'll watch it later

Empty

eh

killingpeople

i watched this a while back and almost threw up about an hour and a half into it and couldn't eat meat for like 2 days. felt like shit for being human. but then i got better. successful propaganda indeed.

Makkon

Propiganda? This is the most objective documentary I have ever seen. They arn't trying to convince not to eat meat, nor to go to anti animal testing riots. They are trying to inform you of what is going on, they are trying to get you to understand a concept. But yes, it is a very good film, and it is very disturbing.

bounchfx

I can understand what is going on without having to watch mindless disgusting violence (I think), I don't mind us being carnivores or even mass producing cattle and crap to kill and eat.. it's blatant disrespect and cruelty to animals that disgusts me. If it benefits us, ok, but at least do it in a way that doesn't come off as terrible (as in, lets say, enjoying mutilation of animals?)

I'd like to know that people have at least some symphathy for these beings, but if they did I guess they wouldn't have the jobs they do. ugh

Jesse Moody

i deleted this because people can't understand the difference between sarcasm and a statement.

Wells

It seems pretty clear that they have a goal in mind when showing the specific types of footage.

Even the very first thing you see lets you know that if you disagree with what they're showing, its only because you're going through the Stages Of Truth. Thats pretty assy.

Jay Evans

Watching it right now, seems well produced and interesting. My personal thoughts with issues like this, is that we can't even begin to address the mistreatment of other species until we wake the fuck up and pull the rest of humanity out of the shitter. Just the fact that I can post a message on the internet, means I have access to a level of health, money, technology, government, that we have denied from a large part of the world even though we have the means to help.

fix up that small issue and I'll be right in line trying to eliminate "speciesism"

Mishra

[ QUOTE ]
Propiganda? This is the most objective documentary I have ever seen. They arn't trying to convince not to eat meat, nor to go to anti animal testing riots. They are trying to inform you of what is going on, they are trying to get you to understand a concept. But yes, it is a very good film, and it is very disturbing.

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but by showing the animals in the worst possible scenario it is trying to influence you. does it show free range chickens running around having fun? i tihnk most people by now understand these things. people know where their food, clothes, and medicine comes from. what we dont like is seeing it actually made. i have no problem with it, it's nature. if they didnt want us to eat them and torture the they'd evolve opposable thumbs already.

Pseudo

That is really hard to watch. For whatever reason I dont have a problem with the animals for food part (My dad grew up working on a farm, so I'm assuming that played a large role), but I really cant watch people throw a dog into the back of a trash truck.

As with any documentary though, they choose to only show the worst case scenarios. On my familys farms the milk cows weren't "chained to their stalls 24 hours a day" like in the documentary, but rather only milked for an hour a day and left to graze for the rest of their time.

Makkon

JesseMoody: I don't think you understand. It's that sort of mentality that is the source of terrorism. Because people think that they can treat animals with such dissregard only because they think they are a lower life form, that we begin to think the same of eachother. The way a person treats an underling says a lot about him, Who's to say they wouldn't do it to another human being? Oh, because they're another human? You think that sops people?
Also, the documentary covers hugely in the last part that, because of our sloppy food processing techniques which are ubiquitous all over the world, countless illnesses are springing are srpinging up. If you the violence doesn't seem to effect you, watch the last part.

Sectaurs: is it quoteable? I didn't get that impression. I think it's a little assy to presume that they have an expected agenda, it's no more unmentionable than the fact that I'm posting it here on this forum because it affected me. Maybe, just maybe, these people are trying to make a point.

Jay Evans: ...most people don't seem to understand that there is a source to everything. People misstreat beings they believe to be inferior to themselves, and it's mentalities like that that carries on into the bigger schemes. The holocaust was nto much different, mercilessly and paintfully killing thousands of people for no other reason than becasue they were thought to be inferior.

Mishra: Free range chickens are a rarity. Have you ever seen a mass producing free range chicken farm? Probably not, because they are expensive, and when it all boils down to it, terrible conditions are inexpensive

Pseudo: Of course your local farm doesn't do that, you're family is not a mindless mass corperation who's only interest is making the big bucks. Worst conditions? These are THE conditions. Go to any large complay slaughter house, it won't be any different.

I'm a terrible typist, and often I find it impossible to distinquish my thoughts into sensible words. A few other people on other forums have made some great points:

"A few years ago at my local college here, PETA (yeah, yeah, I know) put up a display of pictures from the Holocaust side by side of pictures from slaughterhouses and such. Pretty much everyone was pissed. They either totally misinterpretted it (some claimed it was anti-Semetic because some of the animals were pigs...), or were offended because someone dared to compare animal suffering to human suffering. I'm not saying that animals are our equals in every way, but that doesn't make it right to needlessly maim and torture them. I'm not vegetarian either, but I still don't think it's right to keep animals in such conditions, or to treat them poorly just because it's easier and costs less to do so."

"Human thought is all connected. The way in which we treat anyone or anything in a position of inferiority is the same. How else could the hollocaust happen? How else do you explain the callous disregard for life that happens in war and slavery? The thought process is all connected and one, you idiots are too wrapped up in the "us and them" thinking. It does not mean you don't have to eat meat. They never say give up eating the food you like. It's the fact that you as a consumer are supporting inhumane practices that have a CHOICE as to how they deal with these animals. They have the choice to humanely do it, but because of cost, choose not to. Instead of electrocuting the pigs, they slit their throats, dangle them by one leg and let them convulse as they are wheeled through an assembly line that leads to them getting boiled alive. There are better ways to do it. We can strive to be a bit more empathetic.

I believe that thought is connected. It is not segregated. Like the documentary said, as long as there are slaughterhouses there will be battlefields. This promotes a darker side of our human nature (namely our apathy) that does not exend just to the way we treat animals. Life is connected. Everything is connected. One's brain is not a catagorized vault. How we treat people or animals effects how we treat everything around us. I'm saying that we can step up and choose to be more humane. I'm saying that it is within our power to do away with practices like tearing the fur off a fox's face while it is still alive and alert. We can become something of a higher standard. Such thinking would lead to a better quality of life in every regard--but that kind of shift will never happen. Not while biggots and closed minded idiots close their eyes to the truth and blind themselves in a warm fuzzy blanket of ignorance.

Grow up and take responsibility. That is the message that this film says to me. We as a species need to grow up and take responsibility for our own actions. I'm not saying that you need to change the world, you cannot be expected to do so. It is far to large and too stupid to listen to just one person and be changed. I am saying at the very least be aware of what you're stuffing down your throat. Buy from local farmers if possible, even. But burying your heads in the sand and pretending that the problem exists or worse, pretending the problem isn't a 'problem' because you have some twisted superiority complex...well need I say more. Be educated and aware and take some responsibility for your own lifestyle. In other words, pull your heads out of your butts and grow up."

Mishra

ok i take responsibility, can i go back to torturing animals? the thing is that they are a lesser life form. needless cruelty is never warranted, however, packing animals in dank dark places for profit is the result of capitalism. sure it may not be right, and the food tastes poorer than free range cattle or poultry, but its certaintly cheaper. how am i supposed to take responsibility? what is there to take responsibility for? people will treat animals as inferior forever, nothing will change that. thats simply because we are the top of the food chain.

Makkon

You can't change the world, but you can change yourself. That's really all that matters. Take resposiblilty for yourself and for your own actions. That's what I got out of the documentary.

Quasar

You really have to take this documentary with a hand full of salt. I think they should have cut the music for one thing, it evokes sadness that can bias your own opinion, adding to that, they're only showing the worst of what goes on. It is sad that animals are subjected to cruelty though, would be better if people raised and grew their own food like in many European countries and in Russia where people can still live in the comfort of technology. My personal opinion is that the root of the problem is not the power struggle between man and animal, but between man and man. Many lower class families are forced to work and make a living working in industries that harm animals, for example, poachers in Africa make a living killing exotic animals, but there are those poachers, who, when presented with the opportunity, turn to conservation and become guards. Anyway, at least this documentary will get people thinking about what they wear and what they eat : )

Mishra

yeah but, while i think its horrible what some people do to animals, i am still going to buy their product because it is cheap. animal rights activists do a ton of shit that is morally irreprehensible, moreso than keeping some cows locked up imo.

Makkon

Mishra, you obviously didn't watch the documentary. THey never once told you not to eat meat or not to buy leather. The whole purpse was to make you aware of what was going on. They wanted you to be aware, grasp this whole concept of "just because it's an animal doesn't give me the right to exploit it" and to show a little more empathy to animals and other human beings. All things are connected, the mentality that people have with animals is no different than the mentality that people have with people they disslike.

Jay Evans

Makkon, just to play devils advocate, have you ever considered that killing and mistreating others is human nature? Developed over many many thousands of years through evolution. No different than the needs to live, eat, reproduce. As bad as it is to even imagine that, has there ever been a time in recorded human history that compassion towards living things has outweighed violence, and despair ? Our modern day ideas of "helping" people seem to be primarily "ignoring".

We are human, we love things and we hurt things. I don't think there is one thing in that video that humans have not done to other humans. I agree, in that sense all living things are connected, but maybe thats just who we, as humans are...

Evolution unfortunately doesn't know the difference between "good" traits and "bad" traits. We are engineered to survive, and pass on our genes at all costs.

I personally believe that humans love and help each other and living things but man its tough sometimes:P

jgarland

Such is the nature of the beast. I don't believe in, nor advocate cruelty to animals, however, whether or not you like to think so, we are animals ourselves. The human condition is not all that different than that of other animals.

Looking at it from the lowest level, this is the way life was meant to be. Humans are at the top of the food chain for a reason, with that reason being that life is merely the survival of the fittest. Nothing we do in life truly matters, because we will all die eventually. Everything dies. Nothing is forever. Will there be a being superior to humans eventually? Probably. Will the human race live to see it? No. And will that race probably do the exact same thing to the organisms in that time? Very much so.

It is the cycle of life. It is symbiosis. There is mutualism, commensalism, and parasitism. Humans are, in a way, parasites in the eyes of other beings. Humans are terrible creatures. It's already been established, and the documentary does nothing more than shock those who are so blissfully unaware as to deny it.

Please pardon my rant, as perhaps I'm only viewing things at the most primal level, but it is the human emotion that causes us to question the documentary in the first place, is it not?

Jesse Moody

Same here. Deleted because this was pointless.

ElysiumGX

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the thing is that they are a lesser life form.

[/ QUOTE ]

no, YOU are the lesser life form. go live your cheap lifestyle, cheapo. enjoy your walmart grade quality beef products. enjoy the health care system.


edit: Jesse, seriously. Just get the fuck you. GTFO!!!

killingpeople

ya, propaganda. what's wrong with propaganda?

Jesse Moody

and yet again deleted because well it was pointless again.

ElysiumGX

I haven't shared my perspective on the issue. I just think it's lame as hell you for to come in stating how you don't mind torturing cats (then you say you treat your animals amazingly, which is it?). And what does your first hand experience with imprisoned "potential terrorists" have to do with this issue? What does that mean, potential? Sounds like someone was pissed for being falsely imprisoned. The military and government is great at dehumanizing other human beings and cultures. And still, what does it have to do with this discussion? Not to mention your talk of kidnappings, and dinosaurs. If you have no intelligent thought towards this issue, don't derail the conversation.

I watched the videos, and it was moving. I'm not going to become a vegetarian, but it does make good points. People would view their food differently if they knew the process in which it was given to them. And perhaps it would influence them not to consume as much, which in turn would improve the conditions and methods of the food industry. We love everything in excess, and it has its side effects on our health and environment. Which in many ways could blend over to the discussion on health care and preventative measures to relieve those frustrations. We consume more meat than ever for the fact we don't have to hunt or raise it ourselves. In that time, the animals we prepared for a feast were treated well. There was less disease.

It really pisses me off to hear people say humans are top of the food chain in attempting to justify how animals are treated. Isn't a similar mentality taken by murderers, rapist, molesters, and "potential terrorists", only towards other human beings? It's not an answer, it's ignorance.

All beings should be treated fairly, and any taken for the sake of survival should be respected. But we don't eat and clothe ourselves for survival anymore. And many of the diseases and health problems we face today our due to our own negligence, mistakes, and traditions.

Jesse Moody

Dude the whole thing about torturing cats and kidnapping people is a joke. Holy crap. Look I'm not gonna go any further with this because it's a lost cause on my end and yours. No sense in getting fired up over this.

It was a very well put together movie. BUT what I was trying to say is that this is the least of my worries when there are potentially more important issues to be fixed.

ElysiumGX

like terrorist, eh?

Jesse Moody

[ QUOTE ]
like terrorism, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah exactly. Do you know how many people are in this country right now planning shit? Why do you think Best Buy, Circuit City and other places put limits on how many pre-paid cell phones can be purchased at one time?

Yes this video shows some of humanities worst times towards animals and the treatment but it doesn't compare to murder, terrorism and issues like that.

I said it was a good video and had good points. What more do you want?

acc

What a happy thread. Let's recap:

Someone posts common knowledge.
Some people say "WTF, no 1 cares!"
Other people say "STFU, u r jerks!"
More people say "OMG, no im not!"
And people say "LOL, u totally r"

Hurray! Let's contribute!

Animals kill other animals in brutal, visceral ways. When too many animals kill too many other animals, population balances result and the preyed upon species go instinct. This process continues until all of their prey has been killed, at which point the predators die from starvation. At no point do the animals stop killing.

It's pretty easy to see that animals do not really kill "for survival" and certainly do not kill in "humane" ways. They kill because it is their nature to kill, even if it leads to their own deaths.

Humans are animals. Humans are part of nature. We are top of the food chain not because we are higher life forms, but simply because we are more capable killers. This isn't "us and them" mentality, in fact it is quite the opposite. We are animals, so why would we not act like animals? There is no such thing as lower or higher life forms, we're all equally low. If you argue that we have the choice to be "more humane" you are arguing that mankind is a higher life form, in which case you should not criticize others for also believing that.

That natures follows some balanced "circle of life" is a ridiculous, false, idealistic concept. Mankind is proof of that: we kill far more than necessary and continually wreck nature despite the fact is will ultimately bring our destruction. If we weren't doing it, some other species would. That is truly how nature works. It's not nice, it's not pleasant, and it sure as hell isn't idealistic.

So what's the point? There is none.

Have fun!

bounchfx

yeah I thought it was pretty fucked up when jesse said about the cats but at the same time thought it was funny because he was being sarcastic. I think.

time to go eat more live animals

ElysiumGX

Understand that solving a problem means finding the source, instead of fighting the symptoms.

What you call terrorist is a blanket term used to dehumanize. Ask yourself, why are there terrorist attacks in these past decades? While you're at it, ask yourself why there is widespread disease and growing health concerns over the past decades? You wouldn't think to look back on American foreign policy, would you? Or the conditions in which animals were exposed to before being sent to grocery shelves in colorful packaging?

Cause, and effect. Discover the source, eliminate the symptoms. Terrorism and Disease will continue indefinately until changes are made to prevent them from spreading. I can't believe this got political.

And I don't believe one issue should be completely disregarded simply because "there are other things to worry about". There are plenty of helping hands on this planet.

Jesse Moody

yes it was sarcasm in the fullest BUT to prevent any other mistakes i erased it all.

I'm not saying this video is stupid and don't want people to mistake what I have said for that. BUT I just think there are other things to worry about besides this and when I said that all hell broke loose. Oh well.

adam

Well, I can't really finish the movie. It's a bit too much of a shocker for me. Always knew this sort of thing went on, just never saw it. And definitely never experienced it. I'm an animal lover, and a meat eater.

I actually saw most of this movie as, "Humans eat meat and wear their skin as clothing. Here's how we make it happen..." And that method just happens to be 'inhuman'. This method is cheaper than this method, etc. etc.

I agree with Jay Evans comments in that we're conditioned to the way things are. We eat animals. Humans have always done that. We wear them for clothing, humans have always done that. It's just that with this video we're seeing how they get to our plates or the Gap, which is pretty damn sick.

And Jesse... you're all over the place with this one. Really not sure what kind of person you are. Particularly your cat torture comment... which I hope was meant to say that you play with and tease one from time to time.

Jesse Moody

The comment about torturing cats was a joke. Jesus get over it already. God if I tortured my cat my wife would cut my head off.

I'm not trying to make anything political and I think you took everything I said and twisted it because well you either didn't understand the point I was trying to make or whatever. honestly it doesn't really matter.

Terrorism has been going on WAY before the past decade. It's not a new issue so blaming it all on our foreign policy is a bit of a stretch.

As for disease and the spread of it because of these poor conditions. Yeah I agree that this is preventable and with cleaner facilities and laws to regulate this it could improve BUT our government will go after Suzy ninth grader for downloading music off limewire and sharing some metallica songs on the net before they will after large corporations.

Anyone play Dead Rising? That had a similiar theme. Cloning animals for food and the bees they used for other stuff got infected and stun people and turned them into zombies. Maybe Capcom is planning a takeover.

ElysiumGX

You are all over the place.

Jesse Moody

Shit where am I?

Ghostscape

I'm going to continue to eat animals and wear animals and have a pet dog.

When the animals I'm being "species-ist" against start making videos telling me I'm wrong, then maybe I'll reconsider.

Jesse Moody

so how do you guys feel about us all shutting up and a mod closing this thread?

gauss

excellent idea, Jesse!