How To Get Into the Industry
polycounter lvl 18
Paul telling it like it is, and yes, he's on like this all the time.
http://media.pc.ign.com/articles/792/792352/vids_1.html
http://media.pc.ign.com/articles/792/792352/vids_1.html
Replies
So this way you have a portfolio full of awesome oil paintings. Another guy has a portfolio of awesome game art. Who do you think gets the job?
So is it true that art directors don't want to see traditional art skills?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know nothing about EA Mythic, but for everywhere else, No, it is not true that Art directors aren't interested in seeing traditional Art skill.
A tad intense, but entertaining.
I really didn't get "there's no need for traditional art skills" from those videos though. I thought the message was quite clear. If you're applying to be an environment artist, for instance, you're not going to be submitting your acrylic self portraits. You'll be submitting your environment models, textures, and any architectural studies you do, whether that's drawing/painting/what have you. I'd find it hard to believe that an applicant who shows coherent, applicable skills in modeling, but can't draw for snot, being turned down for a position requiring good modeling skills. However, I do understand the benefits to having a good hold on traditional skills. Like he said though, we're a digital industry.
I really didn't get "there's no need for traditional art skills" from those videos though. I thought the message was quite clear. If you're applying to be an environment artist, for instance, you're not going to be submitting your acrylic self portraits. You'll be submitting your environment models, textures, and any architectural studies you do, whether that's drawing/painting/what have you. I'd find it hard to believe that an applicant who shows coherent, applicable skills in modeling, but can't draw for snot, being turned down for a position requiring good modeling skills. However, I do understand the benefits to having a good hold on traditional skills. Like he said though, we're a digital industry.
[/ QUOTE ]
Clearly its vague, since it prompted someone in this thread to seek clarification. I disagree that the message is clear. Everything you've just said in your post is perfectly true and valid. But in a case of something like a character artist applying to us for a job, If they have life drawing and clay sculpture, I sure as shit would rather see it than not and I know many AD's that would feel the same way.
That's all I'm saying here. I'm sure he's a nice guy and knows his stuff and is a funny bloke around the office and all the rest of it but I think his message that traditional work is completely irrelevant since we work in a digital medium is imho potentially misleading.
It's a blend of the two that makes great game assets. Tossing one out and saying only one matters is a bit stupid.
With that said, that was entertaining and about 95% spot on.
form is form, color is color.
if you are a good traditional artist you already know what looks good, and what makes something aesthetically pleasing. software at this point is a mere technicality.
Spark
Clearly its vague, since it prompted someone in this thread to seek clarification. I disagree that the message is clear. Everything you've just said in your post is perfectly true and valid. But in a case of something like a character artist applying to us for a job, If they have life drawing and clay sculpture, I sure as shit would rather see it than not and I know many AD's that would feel the same way.
That's all I'm saying here. I'm sure he's a nice guy and knows his stuff and is a funny bloke around the office and all the rest of it but I think his message that traditional work is completely irrelevant since we work in a digital medium is imho potentially misleading.
[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, most definitely, I understand the benefits, especially for a character artist, to having an alternative artistic outlet for their passion. It can only add to their chance at landing a job, and to their skill as an artist in general.
I agree that saying a strong hold on traditional art is in no way completely irrelevant. I did not get that from those videos, however. I think he was more stating that "traditional artists need not apply". Which is true, video games aren't made of oil paintings, heh.
Additionally, I understand where he was going with the game art schools out there, but I'd have to disagree with them being a complete waste of time/money, being 10 years behind the times, and not teaching the tools of the trade. But, that discussion has been touched numerous times throughout these boards already.
Did anyone else get the feeling that this was a guerrilla taping? He kept looking over his shoulder, to a doorway, in a ninja-like manner. heh.
I think he was more stating that "traditional artists need not apply". Which is true, video games aren't made of oil paintings, heh.
[/ QUOTE ]
...and at the risk of seeming overly pedantic about this issue, I'd still have to go ahead and disagree with that quote. Give me 2 non industry experienced artists chomping at the bit for a foot in the door that I have to choose between. One has some mediocre Zbrush and game res models (much that I'd love to pick out an example portfolio I really shouldn't), and this guy is the other one, i'd take that guy with the gamble that stick him in front of Mudbox and he'd be learning like a mofo. The ramp up time would be worth it imo.
Again, sorry to be so stuck on this point, but I happen to think that any de-valuing of the importance of traditional skill is just fundamentally flawed when it comes specifically to choosing a good character modeler. But that's just me. Maybe I feel this strongly about it because that's how I got my big break (very very little actual game art in my portfolio. EA UK took a chance on me), and I'd like to offer someone else the chance.
A company trying to get a game out the door imminently obviously has an entirely different viewpoint.
I was looking at the name thinking..man...this guy seems familar when it hit me. He was talented then, he's talented now. I should send him a message and say hello!
Thanks for the nostalia/coincidence trip!
Not arguing you points, just curious to your thoughts on it? (And anyone else who has some thoughts on it as well).
I'm sure he's a nice guy and knows his stuff and is a funny bloke around the office and all the rest of it but I think his message that traditional work is completely irrelevant since we work in a digital medium is imho potentially misleading.
[/ QUOTE ]
While I'm definitely one of the last ones to be talking about traditional art (haven't really touched the stuff in a few years, unless you count my metalworking), I can agree with Daz to some degree (I still feel 'nonartists' should be given a chance). There was a quote pasted up in the 3D modelling lab back at my college, I believe it was from a Disney artist, went something along the lines of "The artist whom spends his time learning the newest digital tool without first learning the basics of art is destined to become as outdated as the 56k modem".
Edit: Btw I wonder what company he works for they must be very open minded . I mean saying the producers don't do anything , that people in the game industry are slaves ..etc etc even in gest would piss a lot of companies off . I would like to work for a company someday that did not take itself to seriously like the one he works at .
Spark
I've always been anti game art schools, as mentioned in this video i believe its a complete waste of moneys. I have countless times on this forum sugested that people who want to go to schools to help them out with game art should take traditional art classes. learn what "art" is. I myself wish i had more traditional art training.
But as paul mentioned in the video this is games we are making, its a digital medium, I would not show up to a game studio looking for a job with a large black folder full of paintings. now taking that skill and knowledge gained from traditional training and puting it to use in a more game friendly medium.
I can clarify it with paul tommorow, but i'm pretty sure that message was "If you are a traditional artist, learn to make digital art if you want a job"
and not "Traditional art training has nothing to do with being a game artist"
Knowledge of traditional art is really important for any artist and I'm really disappointed I've never had any training nor have I ever really studied any form of traditional art thoroughly. I feel that my art lack because of this and have always wanted to take up life drawing classes or doing an art course or something.
But if you had the choice of choosing from a talented 'traditional' artist or a talented 'game-art' artist with no real traditional art background, which would you choose then Daz?
-caseyjones
But if you had the choice of choosing from a talented 'traditional' artist or a talented 'game-art' artist with no real traditional art background, which would you choose then Daz?
[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose it isn't surprising that my comments could be completely mis-interpreted. Of course I'd take the guy with the awesome game Art! I'm not an idiot. I'm not promoting the formation of some elite club of game artists that happened into the industry via illustration that look down their noses at any other route into the industry!
Very purely and simply, I simply find it decidedly strange that a videogame company would make a quick guide to getting into the bizz that *seemingly* at least places very little importance on things like life drawing and sculpture. Things that I personally believe to be the very *foundations* of a good character artist. Paul was possibly thinking about this from more of a world building perspective, I really don't know. I'm not in any way shape or form railing on the guy, and I appreciate that Rhino would take the time to ask him about it tomorrow. I'm not going to waste too much time explaining myself further. I think my point is pretty clear.
I never touched 3d until about 3 years ago. I was always drawing, sketching, doodling, painting, carving, sculpting, whatever... When I touched 3d for the first time though it was awesome. I dove into it with all I could and am still trying to learn as much as possible.
I think some people are misunderstanding what is being said here. Having traditional skills while it isn't a "MUST" have in our industry it surely can't hurt you. I know for character artists someone that knows the human body and can draw it very well and proportionately and could sculpt is a very valuable person to have around.
While environment artist can take advantage of someone with even an architectural degree. There are all kinds of things that help us out with everything. Understanding mechanical things and how machines work will help vehicle artists and even animators.
BUT in the end we do make video games and they are made on the computer so if you can't turn out a good looking piece by the end of the day then what good are you to have around?
I hope this is making sense as it is 3 something in the morning and i've had a few beers.
I am pretty sure the guys that designed the new transformers know a lot more than just modeling skills. Mechanical and Engineering Design I would say helped a lot with that. And lots and lots of work and time spent on how each piece would move and where it would go.
Anyways that's my 2 cents.
I can clarify it with paul tommorow, but i'm pretty sure that message was "If you are a traditional artist, learn to make digital art if you want a job"
and not "Traditional art training has nothing to do with being a game artist"
[/ QUOTE ]
That makes sense. It was easy to view the 2min rant against traditional art the wrong way. He does whisper at the very end, "the most important thing is to know how to draw". So I think you might be right.
I've seen all forums flooded with tons of people without traditional art skills trying to do game art. They get hung up on the same things every time and even a passing knowledge of art would get them over those humps. Personally I would like to see a wide range in a persons portfolio. That could be studio specific because we do such a wide range of environments here. I wouldn't want to look at someones work and only see Sci-fi hallways. But then again, ID might want that?
I won't pretend to be a great traditional artist, but the time I have taken to train up has helped me IMMENSELY. Humm... maybe I should take a few more art classes after my daughter is born...
Hah, weird! Ask him If he wants a job
[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, I just sent him a hello email and forwarded a link to this thread. If he's interested, I'll put him in contact with you!
He's not trying to say he doesn't like traditional SKILLS. On the contrary, he's always berating the concept artists here because we don't do traditional illustrations. He's a big believer in the value of an original illustration.
I think it wasn't very clear because he was going off the cuff in those videos. As far as I can tell, his entire day consists of walking around and talking to people like in those videos. Which is great for keeping a large team on track.
Worked for me, and my cg art was crap.
You don't need to be adept at traditional art to have a solid foundation in art fundamentals. For some reason these seem to be getting lumped together.
Knowlege of the fundamentals of art and design is in no way linked to traditional art. A paint brush or lump of clay or a camera is a tool in the exact same manner that Maya, or mudbox, or photoshop is.
And Daz, that makes sense. To men the knowlege of art is not related to one specific tool, and can be transfered, so I can see hiring a good traditional artist to train as a digital artist.
___________________________________________
I've seen all his videos and I can say that I've spent
cool & amazing time. He makes me laughing a lot
and I see his message.
WHAT ABOUT AGE ?
DO YOU THINK THAT EVEN 4O YEARS OLD YOU CAN TRY GET IN ?
NEVER LATE TO MAKE A NEW OCCUPATION (skill), WHAT YOU THINK ?
WHAT ABOUT AGE ?
DO YOU THINK THAT EVEN 4O YEARS OLD YOU CAN TRY GET IN ?
NEVER LATE TO MAKE A NEW OCCUPATION (skill), WHAT YOU THINK ?
[/ QUOTE ]
I know a 60 year old who was a life long baker that went to my college for visual effects and is now working at EA. Never, ever too late!
Enjoyed Paul's videos
I have seen people with zero talent making big bucks and it sickens me to the core.
I think my traditional background in art and illustration went against me in a lot of ways, much to my disgust and extreme surprise.
I was actually told that i was the one who took the unusual route in to the industry, ie have a degree in scientific illustration.
In the artistic institutions or colleges teach people work. Yes yes, you didn't mishear, it is work. learn to sit for long hours over the figure, stubbornly going ahead. Those who are drawing/modelling without a degree, simply impatient, they are not trained to turn off the brain when needed, when necessary, on the other hand, include. everything depends on the person if he industrious nature, it will be successful in any case.