i'm not entirely sure how the whole point system works, but i don't think it works very well... as some people said peppi and mop both got 3 votes for 1st place, whereas the winner placed mostly 2nd, 4th or 5th and only once for first, so it seems like a system that rewards consistant mediocrity as opposed to just flat out excellence. same deal with that robot by ez5k its a really good piece, but it got mostly either 2nd, 4th or 5th spots and only once for 1st, and yet it still ended up placing higher than peppi, who got 3 votes for 1st place, and then just wasn't even placed by alot of other judges.
I have to say, I'm a little bit that Polycount didn't win overall. Now, I don't actually have any right to complain about that, since I didn't submit an entry. You can't complain about losing a war when you don't bother to fight. But after last years victory I was kind of hoping that the green and black would come out on top again.
Congratulations to all of the polycount participants. I was very impressed with the final models from these boards. Top-shelf material, all around. And to be fair, some of our opponents really came through as well. That first-placed entry was certainly a sight to behold.
I'm already eager to see how the next Dominance War begins to take shape. I hope they release the brief on it sooner this time. I need more of a head start to participate. (I know, I'm a pansy)
Echoing others' sentiment on bizarre judging choices. My personal favorite of the contest was Moppet Man's space marine chick, which didn't even break the top 10. Peppi was a for sure top3 I figured, but I guess the old saying is true...
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.
I suggest that those who donated to the contest either personally or those who work for a company that donated prizes, speak up about the judging for the next war.
I don't agree with whatever method they are pointing people.
Gratulation to the winners and of course to all who participated.
For me the polycount army was the strongest!
After i read the most of the judges comments i think a few of them are counting the concept the most and not the execution. ...but thats only my stinky opinion.
I don't know what the judges were smoking, but I want some of it. Taehoon's entry was good, sure, but it certainly wasn't the best. It fell flat compared to a lot of other entries that somehow didn't even make it into the finals...
Really, really disappointing. Congratulations on third, Mop and Tully, even if you really did deserve better.
Odd. When I first looked over the winners last night, I didn't really have a problem with (most of) the choices.
But today after looking at them all again, I'm left scratching my head. I'm not going to say who should have won, and who shouldn't have, but some of those picks seem REALLY out of place. Some have problems with their design itself, but what I have a problem with is some of the winners execution. There were CLEARLY better entries.
And also after reading the judges comments, I'm left even more confused. Reading them, I got the impression that ez5k's entry was a shoe-in for the top honor. It was mentioned by nearly every single judge. Strange.
skankerzero --> There were only two sponsors for the event. cg-academy provided the dvds. Nonetheless, with more forums joining, the judging system will have to be re-invented once again. It will either be based on the olympics where each forum can only send their top 20, or, there will be a weekly ilimination round so that only the best remain, and get voted and commented on. Voting on all entries together is purely impossible as their will probably be 200+ finalists next year..
concept art will be an official category next year.
Yeah Fred, I think Dominance War is great, and really pushes artists to do some serious sweet pieces, which we then all get to see. So thanks for doing it, also Parisite:) No worries man, there was some serious competition, and just happy to at least get a vote here and there:)
As far as the voting system goes I can see how hard it would be to pick favorites. Honestly I think it would be hard to pick any of these because there are so many entries that are just so kick ass.
Maybe a type of voting / poll system could be designed along with having judges to help make the final decision. It would have to be designed so people can't log like 20 votes for one person but it may be a good way to do it.
BUT what do I know I just build environments. haha.
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after viewing the judges page... man... can we get some people that actually deal with characters as their career, not some producer or whatever.
This makes me want to enter the next Dom War even less now.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean?
Directors of strategic planning are totally knowledgeable on the topic...
Also, this years results make me want to enter and finish even more. They tell me that i at least have a chance at the random draw.
Damn, Mop you came in 3rd, just incredible, i must say you had lots of competition this year there was a ton of great entries. Congratulation friend, this is an amazing news, i'll remember this one.
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BTW for all the people just congratulating me, remember that Tully did half the work too
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Congratulation Tully (and not Mop). If it's true that both did half of the work, it's abundantly clear who did the good half. Next year you should drop your partner. He's only bringing you down.
Congrats not just to the top 3/10/x/whatever, but to anyone who finished. I know I've had a great learning experience, and I think everyone has. I've read the judges' choices and I'll probably go by every entry one of these days.
I'm not a great fan of some of the top spots, most notably Taehoon's. A bald, half covered, face is just a really poor design element, in my personal opinion. It's a great work of art, don't get me wrong, but I think the concept wasn't as full of character as some others were.
MoP/Tully, you guys performed best if you combine both Dominance Wars. I think this year's entry was much more interesting than the last one. If the next one is as much better, PC will go home with the grand-prize for DWIII
Edit: Oh yeah, anyone know why reptu got an interview? He didn't win anything, as far as I could tell.
[ QUOTE ]
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after viewing the judges page... man... can we get some people that actually deal with characters as their career, not some producer or whatever.
This makes me want to enter the next Dom War even less now.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean?
Directors of strategic planning are totally knowledgeable on the topic...
Also, this years results make me want to enter and finish even more. They tell me that i at least have a chance at the random draw.
[/ QUOTE ]
Where I'm coming from with this is that when you deal with this day in and out, you pick up on things like good topology.
Number 6 is a good example of bad topology. I don't think a single person here can look at that and say otherwise. Bad shoulders, non existant knee and elbow rings.
These are the things I thought were going to be judged along with the overall final presentation. Afterall, a character is only so good in a beauty render, it actually needs to be able to animate.
This is why I'm confused at some of the choices for judges.
Just because some people are good painters, schedulers or just in the industry doesn't make them ideal judges.
Great 'random draw' comment to. That's why someone like me is pushed away from entering the contest. So many judges just lowers the average on any one given entry.
While I give my thumbs up to Fred and crew for putting this together, the end result seems to have just fallen apart, and it's very noticeable from the comments I see here.
[ QUOTE ]
While I give my thumbs up to Fred and crew for putting this together, the end result seems to have just fallen apart, and it's very noticeable from the comments I see here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree here, but would also like to really stress how much i appreciate the immense amount of effort that fred put into this too, i'm sure its probablly a little disheartening seeing people upset with the outcome.
Aside from my earlier comments, I will say that great big kudos goes out to Fred H for orginizing this whole thing. It's gotta be a giant pain in the ass, and with everyone arguing about the results now it's gotta be kind of a downer for him.
Congrats to all who finished and those that came out on top as well. I didn't enter this year but did the previous year. I appreciate the hard work and effort it must take to set this up and pull it off like others have said above. I also see the results and scratch my head with what i see.
I would like to offer up an idea though to Fred on a possible way to soften the blow next go around. It would be interesting to offer up maybe a people's choice vote or even category to the fray. There seems to be a lot of noise about not understanding or agreeing with the judge's choice(s) and that will always happen, but maybe if we the forum members could vote with a people's choice award for 3 placings it might make for some interesting results. It definitely would be interesting to see the difference between what peers of participants thought versus an "official" judgeing. Just a thought and thanks again to Fred and any involved in putting it all together.
You know, I paid these guys serious money to rig the contest, and then they turn around and be all honest and stuff. This is not democracy! hehehe. Good job all, way to go Mopster.
A lot of patriotism here, which isn't all that bad. So we lost the war this year (and only this year) and it seems really hard to accept the loss because it seems so personal because we had a title to defend. We did our best and that's all anyone could ask.
I think the judging for the future should be based off a score system where points are lost for poor topology and UV map usage, etc. Just like judging in the Olympics, where points are calculated based off execution, style, technicality and not just which they thought looked best. So it will seem like a more fair judging system rather than a judges favourite.
We can't be sour, we just have to bow down and take it like men (and women for the odd few in here) and should see this as a bigger challenge for the next one.
Finally, mad props for everything Fred, for putting this on and organising everything. Huge effort! Many thanks to anyone else that contributed in keeping the War alive whether they entered (and/or finished), tested, donated, encouraged and/or gave gauss a place to stay while he was traveling (or bought him lunch ). I know I'll be marching on the battlefield with you all on the next one, and we'll wave our flag high! Greentooth will prevail.
I like this idea Casey, as it will showcase all the different areas that one needs to cover in the game industry. Also, it could be used as a helpfull guide to others as to how some people uv, and topologize the geometry for animation and so forth, and I for one think that this competition should be about all parts of creation, rather than just concentrating on specific areas.
Spark
#2 looked to me like a crappy concept with a crappy model presented with a lot of (edit: cheap american) fancy show-off effects. how could this top peppi's? well, like per said, i also have to say, pep's presentation seems pretty humble in comparison. cool and original - just not as flashy. since imo it tops #2 from every possible angle, the only factor that i could suppose gave #2 advantage is the flashy glowy stuff.
congrats to winners, anyways, and thanks again to fredh
Thanks to FredH and anyone else that worked to pull this all together. It had to be a monumental task. Looking forward to the next comp. Hoping to actually have time to compete in one of these in the future.
Congrats to ALL the entrants that finished and even those that didnt but learned something along the way.
While I dont agree with the outcome I was still inspired by some of the best character art I have seen developed damn near first hand through these forums like a real time tutorial. For someone that is looking to find a place in this industry that was really fucking cool.
So how were the scores added up? By my (possibly inaccurate) calculations adding up Asmuel's (also possibly inaccurate) calculations, Polycount should be 6 or so points ahead of 3D Total.
you really don't need GI or paintovers, last year i actually just rendered everything with omnis and some fairly lowres shadowmaps... which is pretty much what current games out there have going, and no post editing either, the right lighting can do the job, i think peppis presentation is one of the best actually, its simple, but its really well done, it looks almost like painting its the most kickass thing i've seen in awhile.
and Tbone?? lol where did that guy come from? Totally awesome entry!
as for wyldwulf (#2) i thought it was quite cool, except the textures looked really gamy, other than that it would have looked spot on in gears of war, it looked like he just needed to rely less on the diffuse map and let the other maps do the work.
I also liked muppet man's chick ALOT i don't know why she didn't place higher.
Red Republik's entry was also really good, love that ripped up helmet, thats another entry which should have done much better than it did.
I don't think the ones that made it to #6#7#8 and #10 really belong there, but oh well too late now. I'm also really excited to see sooo many really good entries, there were so many more really good ones compared to last year, i can't even imagine what this will be like next year
Congrats to everyone, Mop and Tully especially. On the note of selections though. Yeah. I don't have anything really to add to whats been said already. Some of them really shouldn't have placed how they placed, and its not just polycount bias, there are cgtalk, cgchat, and 3DTotal models that by far should've outplaced some of what was up there.
btw, a little O/T sorry, but I get major page corruption on the entire dominancewar site in firefox and i.e. Images just dont load properly. Same on my GF's mac. Weirdness....anyone else?
best cgsociety showing was 7th place
ahem.. yes there are maybe some questions left hanging about the judging, since i agree with per's assessment of the #1 spot, but overall it was a smashing good contest all around. pity i couldn't be a more active participant in it this year, but i'll definitely be around for part III.
hats off (rats off to ya!) to all polycount entries, especially Mop and Tully. you done us proud!
edit: oh yeah, and it also just reinforces my belief that guidelines/"theme" are always best ignored for these sorts of things.
Replies
Congrats Mop and Tully. Your entry was my favorite and would pwn that chicken legged mech in a fight.
Congratulations to all of the polycount participants. I was very impressed with the final models from these boards. Top-shelf material, all around. And to be fair, some of our opponents really came through as well. That first-placed entry was certainly a sight to behold.
I'm already eager to see how the next Dominance War begins to take shape. I hope they release the brief on it sooner this time. I need more of a head start to participate. (I know, I'm a pansy)
thanks to the judges and organizers.
cheers for our polycounters.
curious, what's with Alfredo Chaves picking 5 1st place winners? am i seeing that right?
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.
haha
I don't agree with whatever method they are pointing people.
Rawkstar pretty much summed up how I feel.
For me the polycount army was the strongest!
After i read the most of the judges comments i think a few of them are counting the concept the most and not the execution. ...but thats only my stinky opinion.
Really, really disappointing. Congratulations on third, Mop and Tully, even if you really did deserve better.
This makes me want to enter the next Dom War even less now.
Hey Fred, how about next time we have 3 or 4 really good judges instead of 687463184316845?
The rest of the field is completely jacked imho..
But today after looking at them all again, I'm left scratching my head. I'm not going to say who should have won, and who shouldn't have, but some of those picks seem REALLY out of place. Some have problems with their design itself, but what I have a problem with is some of the winners execution. There were CLEARLY better entries.
And also after reading the judges comments, I'm left even more confused. Reading them, I got the impression that ez5k's entry was a shoe-in for the top honor. It was mentioned by nearly every single judge. Strange.
vahl --> Well said
skankerzero --> There were only two sponsors for the event. cg-academy provided the dvds. Nonetheless, with more forums joining, the judging system will have to be re-invented once again. It will either be based on the olympics where each forum can only send their top 20, or, there will be a weekly ilimination round so that only the best remain, and get voted and commented on. Voting on all entries together is purely impossible as their will probably be 200+ finalists next year..
concept art will be an official category next year.
and with a better voting system i think dw3 could realy realy be a sick comp in a positiv way
Mop (congrats), Spark, Muppet Man and Wyldwulf, I apologize but I could only pick 3.
concept art will be an official category next year.
[/ QUOTE ]
Fred: Booyah! I'll hold you to that
The quality of work in there is pretty staggering. Some great shit. I really like the #2, really solid stuff.
save those models for ut3!
Spark
Maybe a type of voting / poll system could be designed along with having judges to help make the final decision. It would have to be designed so people can't log like 20 votes for one person but it may be a good way to do it.
BUT what do I know I just build environments. haha.
after viewing the judges page... man... can we get some people that actually deal with characters as their career, not some producer or whatever.
This makes me want to enter the next Dom War even less now.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean?
Directors of strategic planning are totally knowledgeable on the topic...
Also, this years results make me want to enter and finish even more. They tell me that i at least have a chance at the random draw.
Great texturing by the way .. just woow !
BTW for all the people just congratulating me, remember that Tully did half the work too
[/ QUOTE ]
Congratulation Tully (and not Mop). If it's true that both did half of the work, it's abundantly clear who did the good half. Next year you should drop your partner. He's only bringing you down.
I'm not a great fan of some of the top spots, most notably Taehoon's. A bald, half covered, face is just a really poor design element, in my personal opinion. It's a great work of art, don't get me wrong, but I think the concept wasn't as full of character as some others were.
MoP/Tully, you guys performed best if you combine both Dominance Wars. I think this year's entry was much more interesting than the last one. If the next one is as much better, PC will go home with the grand-prize for DWIII
Edit: Oh yeah, anyone know why reptu got an interview? He didn't win anything, as far as I could tell.
Edit: Oh yeah, anyone know why reptu got an interview? He didn't win anything, as far as I could tell.
[/ QUOTE ]
he made a rabbit on a pig with a dick-rocket .... i guess
[ QUOTE ]
after viewing the judges page... man... can we get some people that actually deal with characters as their career, not some producer or whatever.
This makes me want to enter the next Dom War even less now.
[/ QUOTE ]
What do you mean?
Directors of strategic planning are totally knowledgeable on the topic...
Also, this years results make me want to enter and finish even more. They tell me that i at least have a chance at the random draw.
[/ QUOTE ]
Where I'm coming from with this is that when you deal with this day in and out, you pick up on things like good topology.
Number 6 is a good example of bad topology. I don't think a single person here can look at that and say otherwise. Bad shoulders, non existant knee and elbow rings.
These are the things I thought were going to be judged along with the overall final presentation. Afterall, a character is only so good in a beauty render, it actually needs to be able to animate.
This is why I'm confused at some of the choices for judges.
Just because some people are good painters, schedulers or just in the industry doesn't make them ideal judges.
Great 'random draw' comment to.
While I give my thumbs up to Fred and crew for putting this together, the end result seems to have just fallen apart, and it's very noticeable from the comments I see here.
While I give my thumbs up to Fred and crew for putting this together, the end result seems to have just fallen apart, and it's very noticeable from the comments I see here.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree here, but would also like to really stress how much i appreciate the immense amount of effort that fred put into this too, i'm sure its probablly a little disheartening seeing people upset with the outcome.
Thanks for setting this up Fred.
[ QUOTE ]
Edit: Oh yeah, anyone know why reptu got an interview? He didn't win anything, as far as I could tell.
[/ QUOTE ]
he made a rabbit on a pig with a dick-rocket .... i guess
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea kind of a pointless decision
The 1st place winner is picked by 8 of the 15 judges, majority rules?
Great Job to everyone.
So much eyecandy, so little time.
DWIII is in August.
The comic at the bottom had be laughing pretty loud.
I would like to offer up an idea though to Fred on a possible way to soften the blow next go around. It would be interesting to offer up maybe a people's choice vote or even category to the fray. There seems to be a lot of noise about not understanding or agreeing with the judge's choice(s) and that will always happen, but maybe if we the forum members could vote with a people's choice award for 3 placings it might make for some interesting results. It definitely would be interesting to see the difference between what peers of participants thought versus an "official" judgeing. Just a thought and thanks again to Fred and any involved in putting it all together.
I think the judging for the future should be based off a score system where points are lost for poor topology and UV map usage, etc. Just like judging in the Olympics, where points are calculated based off execution, style, technicality and not just which they thought looked best. So it will seem like a more fair judging system rather than a judges favourite.
We can't be sour, we just have to bow down and take it like men (and women for the odd few in here) and should see this as a bigger challenge for the next one.
Finally, mad props for everything Fred, for putting this on and organising everything. Huge effort! Many thanks to anyone else that contributed in keeping the War alive whether they entered (and/or finished), tested, donated, encouraged and/or gave gauss a place to stay while he was traveling (or bought him lunch
-caseyjones
Polycount: 22 placings, 6 X 1st, 4 X 2nd, 4 X 3rd, 4 X 4th, 4 X 5th
3Dtotal: 22 Placings, 4 X 1st, 8 X 2nd, 0 X 3rd, 4 X 4th, 6 X 5th
CGChat: 16 Placings, 2 X 1st, 3 X 3rd, 6 X 3rd, 1 X 4th, 4 X 5th
CGSociety: 15 Placings, 3 X 1st, 0 X 2nd, 5 X 3rd, 6 X 4th, 1 X 5th
Very very close, I think 1st place's are more important. Feel free to calculate the results yourself incase I am wrong
Spark
congrats to winners, anyways, and thanks again to fredh
But yea congrats to those who did well in the comp, and thanks FredH
Congrats to ALL the entrants that finished and even those that didnt but learned something along the way.
While I dont agree with the outcome I was still inspired by some of the best character art I have seen developed damn near first hand through these forums like a real time tutorial. For someone that is looking to find a place in this industry that was really fucking cool.
Kudos ALL!
and Tbone?? lol where did that guy come from? Totally awesome entry!
as for wyldwulf (#2) i thought it was quite cool, except the textures looked really gamy, other than that it would have looked spot on in gears of war, it looked like he just needed to rely less on the diffuse map and let the other maps do the work.
I also liked muppet man's chick ALOT i don't know why she didn't place higher.
Red Republik's entry was also really good, love that ripped up helmet, thats another entry which should have done much better than it did.
I don't think the ones that made it to #6 #7 #8 and #10 really belong there, but oh well too late now. I'm also really excited to see sooo many really good entries, there were so many more really good ones compared to last year, i can't even imagine what this will be like next year
Heres what I calculated...
Polycount: 22 placings, 6 X 1st, 4 X 2nd, 4 X 3rd, 4 X 4th, 4 X 5th
3Dtotal: 22 Placings, 4 X 1st, 8 X 2nd, 0 X 3rd, 4 X 4th, 6 X 5th
CGChat: 16 Placings, 2 X 1st, 3 X 3rd, 6 X 3rd, 1 X 4th, 4 X 5th
CGSociety: 15 Placings, 3 X 1st, 0 X 2nd, 5 X 3rd, 6 X 4th, 1 X 5th
Very very close, I think 1st place's are more important. Feel free to calculate the results yourself incase I am wrong
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ok let say the following;
1st = 5pts
2nd = 4pts
3rd = 3pts
4th = 2pts
5th = 1pt
polycount = 70pts
3d total = 66pts
not to be bitter but, hello?
ahem.. yes there are maybe some questions left hanging about the judging, since i agree with per's assessment of the #1 spot, but overall it was a smashing good contest all around. pity i couldn't be a more active participant in it this year, but i'll definitely be around for part III.
hats off (rats off to ya!) to all polycount entries, especially Mop and Tully. you done us proud!
edit: oh yeah, and it also just reinforces my belief that guidelines/"theme" are always best ignored for these sorts of things.