"The Industry" and Art Tests.
polycounter lvl 17
A few of us here at U.A.T. were out to dinner the other night and the conversation turned to GDC and art tests.
While I have spoken to a few of the folks I met there, I thought I would start a thread here to compile some of the standards.
What are the parameters of some of the Art Tests you have taken, or given, in the industry?
How long did you have?
What profession were they for (Character, Environment etc). What were the Polycounts like?
What was the texture-real-estate, and count, like?
Did you get the job?
How indicative of a-day-in-the-life do you think the test was?
What other questions can you answer that I forgot to ask?
Myself? I am most interested in environmental and texture creation, but I don't want to troll -just- for those tests.
I hope we can compile the answers here and find out what standards the industry is holding its entry level employees to.
Thank you all for your wisdom,
-Andrew B. Chason
While I have spoken to a few of the folks I met there, I thought I would start a thread here to compile some of the standards.
What are the parameters of some of the Art Tests you have taken, or given, in the industry?
How long did you have?
What profession were they for (Character, Environment etc). What were the Polycounts like?
What was the texture-real-estate, and count, like?
Did you get the job?
How indicative of a-day-in-the-life do you think the test was?
What other questions can you answer that I forgot to ask?
Myself? I am most interested in environmental and texture creation, but I don't want to troll -just- for those tests.
I hope we can compile the answers here and find out what standards the industry is holding its entry level employees to.
Thank you all for your wisdom,
-Andrew B. Chason
Replies
One of the things that they told me was that tests were usually given to people that had weak/uneven portfolios to ensure that the person could quickly produce an example asset within a certain time frame, and that the one or two good pieces in their portfolios weren't merely happy accidents but were in fact reproducible.
Looking at my portfolio ( www.ghostscape.com ) they decided that I had produced a significant body of work at a certain quality threshold that I didn't need to take an art test.
While it wasn't mentioned, I suspect that the three post GDC additions to my portfolio (the stone pillar, chinese restaurant column, and the barrel) which were pumped out in about a day each, helped significantly - I made them upon getting back from GDC where I made initial contact with them, and so I was able to follow up with them (they e-mailed me first actually, about an hour before I was going to e-mail them a post-GDC followup and to let them know about my new pieces), and I would like to believe they acted as sort of a preemptive art test. Plus they let me learn the basics of Mudbox
Keep in mind that you'll have to make a lot of different things when you actually get a job, and with that in mind, don't worry so much about the art tests. You need to be able to work with high poly and low poly models, make normal maps and other maps for complex materials (spec/diffuse/glow/whatever), and your target poly counts will vary somewhat and flexibility is important.
With that in mind, don't worry so much about the test - this isn't like studying for a final, it's like learning to ride a bike. Ultimately instead of focusing on art tests, you should work on demostrating your skill in a specific discipline with a wide variety of poly counts and texture sizes.
I still got hired.
There is no "standard" art test - some companies don't do them, some give you a model and ask you to texture it using strict limitations, some give you a concept and ask you to model/texture it... sometimes they give you a week, sometimes two, sometimes more and sometimes less.
I had to texture a small building and area of land around it (model provided by the company), adjust meshes and model in extra detail for my art test. I think the limit was 5 512x512 textures and about 2000 triangles or something.
I got the job( unfortuntately he he)
The ironic thing is I ended up chosing the only company that I actually sent an application in to.
How long did you have?
I had a week, but did it in a weekend - spent about 40 hrs on it.
What profession were they for (Character, Environment etc).
Vehicle/prop Artist.
What were the Polycounts like?
3,000 triangles
What was the texture-real-estate, and count, like?
1 diffuse, spec and Normal Map (if applicable, I didn't bother with it) at 1024x1024 each.
Did you get the job?
I'd already got a prop artist post, I'm now a vehicle artist.
How indicative of a-day-in-the-life do you think the test was?
Bleh, in this industry the goalposts keep moving. It was indicative of the positions available at the time, but the goalposts have moved again now (I couldn't have gotten away with ignoring normal maps now).
What other questions can you answer that I forgot to ask?
I actually had a choice of tests, one for environment, one for vehicles, I picked the vehicle one as it sounded more challenging.
I don't agree with them personally, but would do one if required again
Thus the art test sort of tells the hiring manager, "or whoever" if you are qualified/fit for the job or not.
I wouldn't want to waste my time or the hiring managers/company time not being sure if "I" can perform on-site and to their liking, that would be an ugly mess.
Nintendo DS platform:
Q.1:
2 weeks, 2 designs with textures + 5-6 animation cycles at the time.
Q:2.
3D/2D texture/animation artist.
Q:3
200-350 tris at the time.
Q4:
2 texture files, one 256 colors and one 16 colors @ 128x128.
Q5:
I am getting compensated and will discuss contracts during my next meeting. Started 2 months ago though, the works hasn't been very constant only started picking up last week and looks like I will be busy for a while.
-End.
I got paid for my art-tests so I was happy with creating them.
I suppose my initial intent was to be able to measure my ability vs. my confidence.
I remember a guy from Raven asked me,"Do you think you could make a Highpoly model, a Lowpoly model, unwrap, normalize, texture it... and then Frankenstein four-to-five other assets from it, in a day?"
Shocked, I frankly said,"No... Are there people that can do that?!"
"Yeah, yeah there are, but... we don't expect you to be able to do that right away. You learn that sort of thing on the job through training and desperation.
Point taken.
So, now the dust is truly (in my mind) starting to settle from GDC, and I am trying to see where the Industry's Bar is, and where my personal bar is; and what parameters and guidelines I can give myself to push myself farther, and harder.
---
Another asked me if I was using Ambient Occulusion. I told hi I did not know what it was. He told me what it was good for, and to research it more. I got home, looked it up, and realized in my ignorance that I had lied to him. I had been backing in my shadows for definition and dirtmaps, all along; I just did not know it was called -that-.
Thank you all for your time. If you can impart further wisdom, or guidance, it is always appreciated.
-Andrew B. Chason
I remember a guy from Raven asked me,"Do you think you could make a Highpoly model, a Lowpoly model, unwrap, normalize, texture it... and then Frankenstein four-to-five other assets from it, in a day?"
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Depends what the model is of
Could be easy, could be impossible. You couldn't do that with a character, but it'd be easy with a small prop, or something made of simple shapes and basic textures.
I remember a guy from Raven asked me,"Do you think you could make a Highpoly model, a Lowpoly model, unwrap, normalize, texture it... and then Frankenstein four-to-five other assets from it, in a day?"
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hey there. that sounds like a looong day to me. i worked at a budget games company for a couple years and know what it's like to work quickly, but for most objects i think this guy's time frame is a bit crazy. if an art director or hr person asks me that question during an interview, i'm probably looking for another job. not that such feats haven't ever been accomplished, but working at that pace just doesn't sound like much fun to me...
don't let that stuff scare you, man.
---What style is your stuff in (Polycounts, texture sizes?).
I can't talk about the project I'm working on, unfortunately. The nice thing about console hardware is that since it only changes every 5 years or so, the specs don't rise as constantly as they could. I'd personally recommend checking out Gears of War's limited edition strategy guide, as it comes with an art-book that is really nice and is only $9 on amazon right now ( http://www.amazon.com/Gears-War-Limited-...3451&sr=1-1 ). Basically, Gears goes up to 12,000 triangles for a character with a 2048x2048 diffuse, normal, and specular map, if I remember correctly. For a modern RTS, you might have 500 triangles for an infantry unit (think like C&C 3) or 2-3k for a large unit or building. Supreme Commander has a model importer being worked on by some guys, you could check out their models, which get up to I think 5k-6k and a 1024x1024 for the super-units. I think all of the EA RTS games like C&C 3 and Generals and Battle for Middle Earth have mod tools. Open world games like Crackdown or Saint's Row have much lower specs because they have to load up so much more in Gears you have only a few rooms in memory at any one time, and only a handful of characters, whereas in an open world game you've got whole city blocks in memory. Have a friend play through a game and just watch it and you can tend to figure out a fair amount about their polycounts texture usage and stuff, too. My little brother hated when I would stop shooting guys in Gears while playing co-op because I was checking out the art and subsequently getting killed. I'm playing C&C3 right now and really digging checking out the buildings. Also, in general, if you look at what the folks on polycount are doing you can pretty much mimic their stats the monthly challenges and the Dom War and stuff are good things to focus on too. It doesn't hurt to aim a little higher than what is currently out, too. You'd do better to make something 2-3k triangles over what people are making now than to limit yourself to too few.
For your portfolio, you would do good to list your triangle counts and make sure you are maximizing your tri-count. Johny on the polycount forums here had a really good image that used 100 triangles to make a gun, and he had one that was like a 32 sided cylinder and almost nothing else, and one that was like a 7 sided cylinder and a bunch of other stuff and had a TON of definition because he didn't waste a single triangle. The actual polycount doesn't matter as much, especially for a portfolio piece, so long as it's well-used. I would also focus on a range of specs, something for an RTS, something for a FPS, something for a GTA/Sandbox 3PS type game. You'll want several pieces with what I call robust materials - normals, specular, glow, all of that stuff, some stuff (but less) without the fancypants stuff, something heavily stylized, and something realistic looking but handpainted. You want to show that you are versatile, and that you don't use a style/technique to mask your inadequacies (an early version of my portfolio from two years ago had bunch of normal mapped stuff with TREMENDOUS amounts of glow and spec bloom, which I was using because it both looked cool and hid the fact that I couldn't texture for balls). You'll want to show that you can make both high and low poly models ultimately the end result is what matters, but quite frankly the end result with a high poly model for normals is almost always better than low poly model with some painted normals. For subject matter, you should pick things you are interested in, but make sure some of it is realistic (historical, modern, etc), and some of it is fantastic(magical, futuristic, etc) in some way.
Another important thing is that last bit I just mentioned realistic and fantastic. While it is good to make creative stuff that is fantastic and unique, it is also important to focus on realistic, accurate portrayals of things. For example, in my portfolio, I have some cool sci-fi stuff, and then some stuff thats more grounded in reality, and then I have my Beretta, which is immediately identifiable as a Beretta, because it has all the right bits in the right places (although the frame mounted safety is rare, there are plenty of 92FS knockoffs that have them, as well as there being various mods for them, etc.) So having famous guns or celebrities or buildings would be beneficial, because when someone can identify something just by looking at it, you have succeeded as an artist, imho.
---What, aside from being employed, do you LOVE about your job?
The one thing I love about my job aside from "hey I make games professionally now" is that I'm getting a paycheck, which sort of sounds like being employed... I spent from August 2006 (when I graduated) until before GDC working on my portfolio about 40 hours a week, while working 24 hours a week at a part time job, and trying to maintain a social life/play video games/read books/etc. I spend 40 hours a week working on stuff now, same as before, but I get paid to do it. I hadn't had a weekend to goof around on for five years. I am loving having two whole days to myself to do what I want to do, without having to worry about any work related responsibilities it's like a vacation.
---What is your biggest challenge each day?
My biggest challenge each day is a fear that I keep secret - that I'm not good enough and that I'm going to fail and when I go to my Art Director, he's going to say look shocked and say "I thought you could do better than this, your portfolio must have been an elaborate ruse, you're not cut out to work on this sort of stuff. It was a mistake to hire you.
Instead, I get some helpful suggestions (hey add some welding marks here), a lot of "hey this looks good," and some of the folks I sit with are pretty convinced I'll soon be moving up from my current position of untested industry noob to professional that we can trust to produce quality props on time. And hey, there is a pay raise when that happens
Personally I'm a guy who gets down on himself a lot and I have always pushed myself to be better as a result - I look at BoBo, Poop, MoP, Rorshach, Johny, b1ll and a million other people online (hey I bet I just pissed off a whole bunch of people who didn't have their name on that list, despite them being people I respect), and I get bummed when I wasn't as good as them. However, those comparisons are also why I think I'm as strong as I am currently (and always improving) - rather than saying "hey I'm better than that guy" I've always pushed myself to improve, and always set the bar high. I have watched two of my friends for the past 4 years or so always compare themselves to the other - "Ha, Jon is still doing that? I'm way better!" "Ha, Nate is doing that? Well I do this! I'm way better!". Neither of them have progressed, one spent 7 years in college before graduating, and only recently got a job in his field (IT), the other just went back to school after spending 4 years working on getting his associates degree - They're both my friends and good people, but they don't have the drive to really push themselves, and put the other person down instead of pulling themselves up, and they limit themselves as a result.
You should never compare yourself to your direct peers or people of similar skill you should be finding the stars of the industry and trying your hardest to beat them. You won't at first, and won't for a good long while, but you will improve much faster. With that in mind, it is still awesome to look at the stuff you made a year or two years ago and go man I've improved so much since then it's laughable how bad my stuff was back then. But you should be aiming to beat people who are much better than you are currently, and you should be taking your satisfaction from how much you improve over your old work, instead of focusing on beating the people who are still students and taking satisfaction when you beat the guy who clearly lacks the skill or drive to ever make it into the industry.
You shouldn't stick to what you know or what is familiar making 100 Heckler and Koch guns for Counterstrike:Source isn't going to help you learn new things or improve as an artist you'll just find you're really good at one thing, but when CS:S is old and tired, you'll have some skills that won't be readily applicable. It helps to bounce around and try new techniques, new software, new technology, etc. While it is good to focus on a certain discipline in your portfolio and make improvements along those lines, your portfolio discipline shouldn't be the only thing you're working on I have done a few characters, and while they suck compared to a lot of my other stuff, I learned valuable techniques and skills while working on them edge modeling, for example, which is something that is used much more often for characters (b1ll does a ton of this) is something I used in the making of my Beretta, for example. I could list a million more examples, but the long and the short of it is that the more you understand related disciplines and the underlying technology and the tools available to 3d artists as a whole, the better you will become.
Anyhow, I've spent way too long writing all of this up, and I'm exhausted, and I have to wake up early to get some shit done before I go check out free comic book day and then vroom vroom cars, so I'm going to cut this short here.
Actually, one last thing that I will say I am where I am today because of what I did, what I am capable of doing, and what I have learned. No one handed me anything, no one helped me up, there was no shortcut or easy way. Life for me ain't been no crystal stair, as it were. I busted my ass for a good long time just to get my foot in the door. I'm self-taught as opposed to schooled, and as a result owe a tremendous thanks to the folks on polycount and cgtalk who give helpful feedback and honest critique and helpful information and write tutorials, because they've been the only ones that have provided any sort of help, and I owe the community for that.
As far as art tests go I think they are hit and miss. My art test for Cryptic was TERRIBLE. It in no way showed what I could do. I was in the middle of moving, getting ready for GDC and prepping for finals with school and I just wasn't in the right mind state. I did something. It came out like ass and i didn't get the job. Oh well. It was really vague and I asked a good number of questions but it didn't make anything clearer. I don't play mmos so it was hard to know what a next gen mmo would have for specs and how things are built. I'm kinda glad it turned out that way now though because I'm really liking the freelance thing and it's been treating me well.
Incom asked me a couple of questions and it was late last night when I was reading them so I sort of braindumped a metric fuckton (thats more than an imperial fuckton) of text, and I figure some of it might be helpful.
---What style is your stuff in (Polycounts, texture sizes?).
I can't talk about the project I'm working on, unfortunately. The nice thing about console hardware is that since it only changes every 5 years or so, the specs don't rise as constantly as they could. I'd personally recommend checking out Gears of War's limited edition strategy guide, as it comes with an art-book that is really nice and is only $9 on amazon right now ( http://www.amazon.com/Gears-War-Limited-...3451&sr=1-1 ). Basically, Gears goes up to 12,000 triangles for a character with a 2048x2048 diffuse, normal, and specular map, if I remember correctly. For a modern RTS, you might have 500 triangles for an infantry unit (think like C&C 3) or 2-3k for a large unit or building. Supreme Commander has a model importer being worked on by some guys, you could check out their models, which get up to I think 5k-6k and a 1024x1024 for the super-units. I think all of the EA RTS games like C&C 3 and Generals and Battle for Middle Earth have mod tools. Open world games like Crackdown or Saint's Row have much lower specs because they have to load up so much more in Gears you have only a few rooms in memory at any one time, and only a handful of characters, whereas in an open world game you've got whole city blocks in memory. Have a friend play through a game and just watch it and you can tend to figure out a fair amount about their polycounts texture usage and stuff, too. My little brother hated when I would stop shooting guys in Gears while playing co-op because I was checking out the art and subsequently getting killed. I'm playing C&C3 right now and really digging checking out the buildings. Also, in general, if you look at what the folks on polycount are doing you can pretty much mimic their stats the monthly challenges and the Dom War and stuff are good things to focus on too. It doesn't hurt to aim a little higher than what is currently out, too. You'd do better to make something 2-3k triangles over what people are making now than to limit yourself to too few.
For your portfolio, you would do good to list your triangle counts and make sure you are maximizing your tri-count. Johny on the polycount forums here had a really good image that used 100 triangles to make a gun, and he had one that was like a 32 sided cylinder and almost nothing else, and one that was like a 7 sided cylinder and a bunch of other stuff and had a TON of definition because he didn't waste a single triangle. The actual polycount doesn't matter as much, especially for a portfolio piece, so long as it's well-used. I would also focus on a range of specs, something for an RTS, something for a FPS, something for a GTA/Sandbox 3PS type game. You'll want several pieces with what I call robust materials - normals, specular, glow, all of that stuff, some stuff (but less) without the fancypants stuff, something heavily stylized, and something realistic looking but handpainted. You want to show that you are versatile, and that you don't use a style/technique to mask your inadequacies (an early version of my portfolio from two years ago had bunch of normal mapped stuff with TREMENDOUS amounts of glow and spec bloom, which I was using because it both looked cool and hid the fact that I couldn't texture for balls). You'll want to show that you can make both high and low poly models ultimately the end result is what matters, but quite frankly the end result with a high poly model for normals is almost always better than low poly model with some painted normals. For subject matter, you should pick things you are interested in, but make sure some of it is realistic (historical, modern, etc), and some of it is fantastic(magical, futuristic, etc) in some way.
Another important thing is that last bit I just mentioned realistic and fantastic. While it is good to make creative stuff that is fantastic and unique, it is also important to focus on realistic, accurate portrayals of things. For example, in my portfolio, I have some cool sci-fi stuff, and then some stuff thats more grounded in reality, and then I have my Beretta, which is immediately identifiable as a Beretta, because it has all the right bits in the right places (although the frame mounted safety is rare, there are plenty of 92FS knockoffs that have them, as well as there being various mods for them, etc.) So having famous guns or celebrities or buildings would be beneficial, because when someone can identify something just by looking at it, you have succeeded as an artist, imho.
---What, aside from being employed, do you LOVE about your job?
The one thing I love about my job aside from "hey I make games professionally now" is that I'm getting a paycheck, which sort of sounds like being employed... I spent from August 2006 (when I graduated) until before GDC working on my portfolio about 40 hours a week, while working 24 hours a week at a part time job, and trying to maintain a social life/play video games/read books/etc. I spend 40 hours a week working on stuff now, same as before, but I get paid to do it. I hadn't had a weekend to goof around on for five years. I am loving having two whole days to myself to do what I want to do, without having to worry about any work related responsibilities it's like a vacation.
---What is your biggest challenge each day?
My biggest challenge each day is a fear that I keep secret - that I'm not good enough and that I'm going to fail and when I go to my Art Director, he's going to say look shocked and say "I thought you could do better than this, your portfolio must have been an elaborate ruse, you're not cut out to work on this sort of stuff. It was a mistake to hire you.
Instead, I get some helpful suggestions (hey add some welding marks here), a lot of "hey this looks good," and some of the folks I sit with are pretty convinced I'll soon be moving up from my current position of untested industry noob to professional that we can trust to produce quality props on time. And hey, there is a pay raise when that happens
Personally I'm a guy who gets down on himself a lot and I have always pushed myself to be better as a result - I look at BoBo, Poop, MoP, Rorshach, Johny, b1ll and a million other people online (hey I bet I just pissed off a whole bunch of people who didn't have their name on that list, despite them being people I respect), and I get bummed when I wasn't as good as them. However, those comparisons are also why I think I'm as strong as I am currently (and always improving) - rather than saying "hey I'm better than that guy" I've always pushed myself to improve, and always set the bar high. I have watched two of my friends for the past 4 years or so always compare themselves to the other - "Ha, Jon is still doing that? I'm way better!" "Ha, Nate is doing that? Well I do this! I'm way better!". Neither of them have progressed, one spent 7 years in college before graduating, and only recently got a job in his field (IT), the other just went back to school after spending 4 years working on getting his associates degree - They're both my friends and good people, but they don't have the drive to really push themselves, and put the other person down instead of pulling themselves up, and they limit themselves as a result.
You should never compare yourself to your direct peers or people of similar skill you should be finding the stars of the industry and trying your hardest to beat them. You won't at first, and won't for a good long while, but you will improve much faster. With that in mind, it is still awesome to look at the stuff you made a year or two years ago and go man I've improved so much since then it's laughable how bad my stuff was back then. But you should be aiming to beat people who are much better than you are currently, and you should be taking your satisfaction from how much you improve over your old work, instead of focusing on beating the people who are still students and taking satisfaction when you beat the guy who clearly lacks the skill or drive to ever make it into the industry.
You shouldn't stick to what you know or what is familiar making 100 Heckler and Koch guns for Counterstrike:Source isn't going to help you learn new things or improve as an artist you'll just find you're really good at one thing, but when CS:S is old and tired, you'll have some skills that won't be readily applicable. It helps to bounce around and try new techniques, new software, new technology, etc. While it is good to focus on a certain discipline in your portfolio and make improvements along those lines, your portfolio discipline shouldn't be the only thing you're working on I have done a few characters, and while they suck compared to a lot of my other stuff, I learned valuable techniques and skills while working on them edge modeling, for example, which is something that is used much more often for characters (b1ll does a ton of this) is something I used in the making of my Beretta, for example. I could list a million more examples, but the long and the short of it is that the more you understand related disciplines and the underlying technology and the tools available to 3d artists as a whole, the better you will become.
Anyhow, I've spent way too long writing all of this up, and I'm exhausted, and I have to wake up early to get some shit done before I go check out free comic book day and then vroom vroom cars, so I'm going to cut this short here.
Actually, one last thing that I will say I am where I am today because of what I did, what I am capable of doing, and what I have learned. No one handed me anything, no one helped me up, there was no shortcut or easy way. Life for me ain't been no crystal stair, as it were. I busted my ass for a good long time just to get my foot in the door. I'm self-taught as opposed to schooled, and as a result owe a tremendous thanks to the folks on polycount and cgtalk who give helpful feedback and honest critique and helpful information and write tutorials, because they've been the only ones that have provided any sort of help, and I owe the community for that.
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Wow, that's quite the post. How long have you been in the industry again? Seems like you have a lot of experience.
Wow, that's quite the post. How long have you been in the industry again? Seems like you have a lot of experience.
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Three whole weeks
Actually it won't be three weeks until this friday
It's been a long journey getting this far though, and I've picked up a lot along the way.
The primary aim of the test is to evaluate how well an artist performs at interpreting a piece of 2D concept Art into a fully realised game ready asset. A test isn't always necessary depending on the applicant, and the more senior guys might be less willing to do one. I wouldn't expect a seasoned artist with an impressive portfolio that showed everything we were looking for in an applicant to spend 16 hours doing an art test. But when a less seasoned applicant comes along with *almost* all of the qualifications needed for the job, but their portfolios are missing an integral piece of the puzzle, like texture painting or UV layout examples, then you soon realise that its very tough to make a decision on their suitability without seeing that stuff in the flesh.
Personally, I see no problem with art tests that are brief. I think it is unfair of a company to ask you to do anything that would take you longer than a full weekend's workload. Of course if your portfolio has numerous examples of the type of work that they'll be doing, it may be a little pushy to demand another sample.
Most of the people who seem to get upset about art tests fall into a couple of categories. The first is that the applicant is a grizzled veteran who resents the fact that he'll have to give up time doing an art test when he already has a proven track record. The second is the rookie that is not confident in his abilities, and sees the test as a large and difficult challenge.
If your one of the first group, either suck it up and do the test, or explain that you already have applicable examples for the type of work being requested, or just move on to other companies to apply to.
But if you're in the second rookie category, and you're intimidated by the art test, chances are you need some more practice. If you're in way over your head when doing the test, you'll be in even deeper water when you get on the job with pressing deadlines. Sharpen your skills, and don't apply until you are very confident that you can do the required tasks at a quick production pace.
Another I was over two days while I was at a company. Was given concept art of a head and had to do as much as I could in the two days, sculpting the high poly, low poly, texturing etc.
the first one I failed and I knew it, a minute worth cinematic animation in a week, plus lighting the scene, plus first time working with character studio.
The other just faded into oblivion, never heard from the company again, model, texture and 1 animation, portable specs.
The most recent one is still pending.
I know Concretes art test is the same for all environment guys. That way they can measure the good and the bad.
http://www.concretegames.com/
But we did intentionally leave it pretty vague. We want to make sure someone can figure out what they need to. We want to see how someone does without direction. Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages to that method, and I know many companies give a much more specific test.
However, I don't think that we're bastards in judging it. While we are looking for certain things, they are all fairly common, and we're not going to fail you because you have too many, or too few polies overall.
Ya I know Jesse isn't terribly pleased with our Art test.
But we did intentionally leave it pretty vague. We want to make sure someone can figure out what they need to. We want to see how someone does without direction. Yes, there are advantages and disadvantages to that method, and I know many companies give a much more specific test.
However, I don't think that we're bastards in judging it. While we are looking for certain things, they are all fairly common, and we're not going to fail you because you have too many, or too few polies overall.
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Hey I don't think you guys are bastards. haha. I just think when I got your test I was way too busy with finals and getting ready for GDC to really do what I neeeded to do. I was more displeased with the pile of shit I turned out than with your test. It was not even close to being a good piece compared to the rest of my portfolio.
I was more talking about tests in general. I have heard so many horror stories from other guys about failed art tests and these guys have bad ass art work.
I don't mind art tests at all, though I usually get overly worried about it and tend to make mistakes sometimes that I normally wouldn't make if I had more sleep
The only thing that annoys me is when companies don't get back to you, to at least let you know you didn't get it, or what you did wrong.
I think that would help tremendously, is to let you know what happened to be turned down. But when they don't even respond to you, I feel really insulted by that.
A simple no is sufficiant.
I was more displeased with the pile of shit I turned out than with your test. It was not even close to being a good piece compared to the rest of my portfolio.
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I remember that, and yeah, it was nowhere near the quality of the rest of your stuff in your portfolio - I didn't even realize your portfolio and that piece were done by the same guy until I saw your name in the post
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I was more displeased with the pile of shit I turned out than with your test. It was not even close to being a good piece compared to the rest of my portfolio.
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I remember that, and yeah, it was nowhere near the quality of the rest of your stuff in your portfolio - I didn't even realize your portfolio and that piece were done by the same guy until I saw your name in the post
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haha yeah i was under a lot of stress that week and it started out as a good idea that just went to the shitter by the time it was over.
I think that would help tremendously, is to let you know what happened to be turned down. But when they don't even respond to you, I feel really insulted by that.
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I find that incredibly poor form that a company would have you do an Art test and not respond at all. We had a test in last week that failed, and I spent a good hour writing up a very detailed breakdown of precisely why it wasn't what we were looking for. If a candidate has spent a weekend working on a test it's really the least you can offer.
Jesse, as for this quote: "I honestly don't think a company should base a decision of an art test" I don't see it that way at all. Employers are usually looking at every facet of a candidate, and the test is just one part of the decision making process.
Five weeks of waiting and only after the second email I sent did I get a reply (rejection). It made me wonder if I would have had a reply at all had I not emailed again. Would have been nice after all that to at least know where I went wrong.
I don't mean to sound bitter, it's just very frustrating.
I screwed the test up by not being creative though they weren't really blunt with the means of the test though, it could have been my fault for not asking many questions.
Remember to ask any and all questions even if they sound stupid to you.
I would still love to work for Cryptic though. Seems like a pretty cool place to work and I can tell ya my next art test would look awesome
-I've only had one art test, which was for Hi-Rez Studios of which I've been a part for about 8 months now:D The constraints of my art test were that I needed to use no more than 8 512x512 textures, (or one large 2048), and that lighting wasn't as much a focus as was the materials and models. I still spent about equal time on the lighting to show the whole thing off though.
How long did you have?
-20 hours, but I could spend as much extra time I needed, so long as I told them how much additional time I spent. I ended up landing at almost exactly the 20 hour mark.
What profession were they for (Character, Environment etc).
-Environment art.
What were the Polycounts like?
-20,000 polygons max. I think I used only around 12,000, though if I could do it again, I would have used a lot more.
What was the texture-real-estate, and count, like?
-8 512x512 textures, or one 2048 sheet.
Did you get the job?
-Yeh, 8 months ago:)
How indicative of a-day-in-the-life do you think the test was?
-The art test for Hi-Rez definately represents a half-case scenario. We do a lot more beyond what's in the art test; really just because you're not using the UE3 toolset to make your art test, you're using a 3D app and Photoshop, so there isn't that rich interaction with a game editor in addition to the content creation itself.
At no point in the test will you need to create a Kismet sequence to control the random flickering of a digital sign, for example;)
Soooooo. . . don't expect most places to tell you jack about WHY you didn't pass their test, and if you happen to get someone who does tell you, just appreciate it, and thank them for doing something they're not supposed to.
I know it's kind of a shitty reason, but that's the best I've got.
I don't know what constitutes a dead thread; but I see nothing wrong with reviving it, if there is some relevant question, or wisdom, to be gained from it.
I have friends that work there too who were giving me suggestions and were pleased with my outcome, but all I got were crickets as far as "what I did wrong" goes....
I don't mind being told I suck, but at least being given suggestions that will make me better - is always better than nothing.