Xan Kriegor

MacTom27

Hi everyone,

At the moment, I am working on a Xan Kriegor model for UT3.
I have everything I need for creating normal maps, textures...
However I just need to know wich viewer program I should use for Normal maps.

Concept art :


Flat shaded preview :


Xan Kriegor
Polycount = 5572
Tool used : 3DS Max 8

With smooth groups


High poly version


Please, critics and comments are welcome.:)

darkshadow

i really like the high poly version, and i would just use max 8 to bake the normal maps.

Quickel

Yeah, I'd use Max as well. That ought to bake pretty well. Nice job.

verybad

The tubes going into the head will probably do somethign wierd in a normal bake. I'd bake them separately if possible.

Criminal

That's a great model i also love the high poly, would for sure just use max to bake out the normal maps but do the head and tubes separately and then if you need to put them onto the single map just overlay them. Very nice model.

MacTom27

Thanks for the quick replies guys,

Actually I was wondering how many unwrap maps they will allow for each character model in Unreal Tournament 3.
In UT2kx, the models have two 1024*1024 textures, one for the head, one for body.

Make the UV map is not problem, but I don't want to waste time...
So if anybody has some advice about that.
For the moment, I will go for two unwrap maps of 2048*2048...

flaagan

Though I've yet to mess around with UT3 stuff, I doubt they've changed things or put some kind of limit on it. You could essentially have as many materials on a model as you liked; some of my vehicles has five or so materials assigned to them (in part because each wheel received it's own material, despite using the same one). Never a bad idea with the character to go for two 2048's like they did in UT2k4, but if you want separate materials for certain parts of the body, and can achieve them easier with more than two, nothing's stopping you. (Anyone on here who's actually worked with the UE3 engine and found this not to be true please chime in to correct me.:))

MacTom27

I have tried to used only two normal maps :

One for the body , one for the head
with the resolution that EPIC developper are supposed to use : 2048*2048
not really satisfying

So I went for 3 :
1024*1024 for the head
and 2 2048*2048 for the body

here the low poly mesh with normal maps :


Shot at 2007-07-13


Shot at 2007-07-13

The normal maps work fine but they still need improvement.

TheFrog4u

[ QUOTE ]
So I went for 3 :
1024*1024 for the head
and 2 2048*2048 for the body

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf? take a look at the dominacewarII models.. they only have one 1024 map.. I think you r going a bit crazy with makin it 9 times bigger!!!

MacTom27

RLOF I am not modeling for dominance war 2 !
For Unreal Tournament 3!

Take a look at this :

Tim Sweeney wrote:

The normal maps are typically 2k by 2k.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are more information here

I don't think I am going crazy, and even if I must reduce some texture maps, it is way easier to reduce 2048 to 1024 than resize them from 1024 to 2048.

BeatKitano

Marcus from gears of wars is painted on 3 2048 maps (spec diff and normalmap), and a 512 for hairs (don't think xan has hair, did he ?).

No separate sheet for head and his face is good enough for close up so i think you should stick up with the 3 2k maps. (just my two cents)

Joao Sapiro

yeah but apparently the detail you have would fit even perfectly in a 512x512 , im sorry to say but the model doesnt have anything interesting besides some extruded stuff, i believe gears hasnt used the 3 2k maps as you think i think infact that they went with 1 or even 2 1k map for X360 , but its your stuff you do what i want, but as i usually say : Better resolution wont make anything that looks mediocre stand as high quality , it might even make your mistakes more visible.

fritz

gears uses 2 1024's for each locust as far as i know. 2 2048's for the body sounds a bit much.

indian_boy

you shouldn't really think in terms of "what's my limit" but in terms of "what do i need really?"

MoP

Your maps are huge. The final in-game characters for Gears of War use on average 2 512x512 sheets (total of 1024x512 for each diffuse/spec/normal), maximum of two 1024x1024 sheets (total of 1024x2048) for each whole character. Their source art was 2 2048x2048 maps, but those aren't used in game for memory saving reasons and probably because you would never see the amount of detail you can fit in the space of 2048x4096 pixels.

I would be interested in seeing the UV layouts for your model for each texture map, to see how you're using the space. By the sound of things I expect the UVs are not very efficient, either that or you've just got room for a crazy amount of detail, which will not only probably take longer to make, but nobody will ever see it in the end anyway since the character won't be 100% filling a whole 1600x1200 screen or whatever.

Just my thoughts on the technical aspects here.

The models and normal maps themselves look pretty good, I just reckon you could get the exact same results with less than half the texture space you're using now.

Cheers,
MoP

MacTom27

Thanx for the crits guys

I just tested my model with 1024*1024 normal maps. I got similar results. So I agree on this part. No need to use huge normal maps, all the details are still well visible.
And even some mistakes are not visible anymore.

However about the diffuse map, I think I will work on 2048*2048 maps. And reduce them to 1024 after.
I have a better control of details like this.

On request, here the UV layouts. If you think they are fine, I will start texturing today if not please tell me how to optimize them :



Also here some of his teammates :

PolyHertz

[ QUOTE ]
The final in-game characters for Gears of War use on average 2 512x512 sheets (total of 1024x512 for each diffuse/spec/normal), maximum of two 1024x1024 sheets (total of 1024x2048) for each whole character. Their source art was 2 2048x2048 maps, but those aren't used in game for memory saving reasons and probably because you would never see the amount of detail you can fit in the space of 2048x4096 pixels.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure about that mop? Everywhere i've read stated they used either 2x2048 or 2x1024, but no where that says they brought them down to 2x512.

Ghostscape

[ QUOTE ]
Thanx for the crits guys

I just tested my model with 1024*1024 normal maps. I got similar results. So I agree on this part. No need to use huge normal maps, all the details are still well visible.
And even some mistakes are not visible anymore.

However about the diffuse map, I think I will work on 2048*2048 maps. And reduce them to 1024 after.
I have a better control of details like this.

On request, here the UV layouts. If you think they are fine, I will start texturing today if not please tell me how to optimize them :




[/ QUOTE ]
Uh I've got an easy way for you to cut your texture usage almost in half.

Mirror most of that stuff.

With the exception of the Face and Torso, everything else can be mirrored.

moose

I'd keep it to two textures on the mesh.

as for the texture sizes, 2048s are fine, but naturally if you can get away with smaller - by all means

MacTom27

Thanks guys
With texture mirroring, I were able to use only two texture maps. Here the new body UVmaps :


I have started to skin the head today :


I would like some opinion about the color schemes.

odium

I still think you could possibly scale things a little more to get that down to a single UV map. Great work on mirroring the UV's however.

ATM you still have a lot of wasted space on the UV map, which leads me to think maybe you could fit in that head on there. ATM, your head isn't 1:1 ration with the body, so try shrinking down the head UV's a tad, moving it all about.

I bet you can fit it all on one UV map

Nice work so far.

MacTom27

hehe I understand what you mean
But the main aim was to understand how work normal maps with this model.
And thanks to the good crits I got there, I can now focus more on the UV layout. I have another model in the work that I will post here soon

Here the progress of the skin :

MacTom27

Hi folks

Finally got my UTIII model in game yesterday


Beta download :
http://rapidshare.com/files/78655206/XanMCT27BETA.rar.html

There is just a small issue :
Open the UT3 Editor then open my package ch_xanmac

Browse the material and right click on head normal map :


Choose texture viewer and change the LODGroup to CharacterNormal :



That's the only known issue.

Big thanks to Geodav & Evil_Engine who provided all the infos I need to put my model in game.

More models will be made as soon as EPIC tell us how to make a custom factions.

Enjoy ! And merry X-Mas to Polycount !

clee101

Hey MacTom27 nice to see your character in UT3 and you did a great job importing him in. Looks like theres no technical issues with it. I want to ask you I also imported a character into UT3 but when in game there seems to be this intense bright glow on the model.. Do you know how to get rid of that?

MacTom27

thx

Maybe this bright glow is linked to your specular map.
If some area are too white, the engine generate some sort of shining glow.

clee101

I see.. But I also noticed that those areas in my specmap were black, but the diffusemap is white. Does the diffusemap also make it glow if its too white?

_Eclipse_

really nice, i like more the upper part of the model, legs seems to be less detailed (the shape not the texture work!) but the final result in ut is very good

MacTom27

@ clee101, maybe it comes from the LOD settings.
For a character, here how you must set your textures :
- Diffuse : LodGroup = Character
- Normal : LodGroup = CharacterNormal
- Specular : LodGroup = CharacterSpecular

@ Eclipse, I know I really could give him more shape details on the legs but I just wanted to make an "oldskool" character
Beside I don't want to spend too much time on him.

clee101

I did follow the LOD settings like you have described there. One other thing I wanted to ask is did you make your character in one piece or did you separate them into different parts?

MacTom27

Character must be imported in 7 pieces :

- Head
- Torso
- Arms
- Thighs
- Boots
- Left ShoulderPack
- Right ShoulderPack

Heart Murmer

Just so there is no confusion, there is a work around to import one singular mesh. Check out this thread at the UT3 Forums:

Character thread

Its pretty long read through, but if you're interested in getting a singular mesh into the engine this is where to start. They are breaking through with some interesting stuff.