Heres another idea Daz "Sod off"
you think maybe us working at the same company that poop worked at means maybe we "know" him? I sat in a cube across from him for a good ammount of time. I know more than just the Internet persona he throws out. Same with other people who work here.
"Personally i think it's a little sad that a contest thread has to have such unsavory comments. Not that I got far with mine, but next time I'd suggest only entrants get to post comments. Just an idea."
- Doesn't that defeat the purpose of criticism? I also don't quite remember seeing an entry from you. Just saying... I don't care to argue the point or at all for that matter. If an artist can't take objectional views to their art regardless of tact or format then they can never progress.
Somebody may shit on your parade every now and then but even then maybe you have to look at even the harshest of views and see if maybe there is something behind them. I'm talking about the art...the thing of people not liking him personally, well that's another thing. I don't have anything to base that off of other than talking with you online and what i hear from those that do know you and I'm talking of those that know you not on the internet but in real life.
I worked with Ben for over a year here, and he and I got along great. It's been awhile since he worked with you guys. Whatever beef you have with him, maybe it's time to let it go. Or at least keep it off public message boards. It doesn't do anyone any good, and your opinions are definitely skewed by your personal feelings towards him. The art is good, and you're talking like it's the worst thing ever made.
Some people in this thread really need to learn what a critique is.
Anyone who posts something like "this is shit" is a moron regardless of what they're talking about and regardless of who made the work. It's not constructive, it's not helpful, and it just makes them look like an idiot.
I really, really hope that someday one or two of the people in here apply for a job that they really want, only to get turned down because the guy in charge remembers the days when they acted like complete asses in a public forum.
Well, sorry. If you guys think that I have been personally attacking him, then that is your own problem. I do not have any 'hate-boners' for Ben. He is a decent human being like the rest of us. He came off as being an annoying person to work with at Mythic, but that was more than a couple years ago. I'm sure he has changed since then.
And I'm sorry if my comments were misinterpreted. Just seems like any feedback I give is direct and blunt.
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Sorry, but i cant seem to find a single thing about this entry that i like, from concept to excution it all just seems rushed.
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Maybe offering some useful critiques would be more useful, EarthQuake? Right now yours is a fairly useless post.
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To elaborate, it seems like he took a very weak concept, modeled it strictly to said concept without trying to improve it in any way(even ignoring any critiques made on 3dtotal), and textured it in a style that was a complete contrast to the style of the model, and then presented it poorly.
Hopefully thats a bit more helpful.
[edit] Mojo you know i generally hate on you but damn, that was a fantastic post. You have my respect for actually speaking your mind and not being just another mindless drone.
I agree with EQ on the character itself... there just seems to be something missing. However, the model itself seems decently executed... but how much does that really count in dominance war ya know?
poop: You're still one of the better modelers on here, as far as I'm concerned this is a rare miss.
I've not only worked with Ben in the past, but also went to college with him. The guy works harder than a lot of people in this industry and I think the dedication to his craft deserves a lot more appreciation than what you three are giving him.
Rhinokey try learning to control your emotions there buddy. You sound like a little baby. EQ learn what a proper critique is as well. Perhaps you should ask Poop, because he certainly does.
Wow is all I have to say after reading this thread. It has turned from a critique on the piece to what I personally view as an attack on the person. The thing about a community is that you will have problems, but we as artists should forgo some of the dislike of a person and be proffesional and try to give feedback, as I would not want new people coming into the industry to think that this is acceptable. Saying its shit, is not feedback, and you can qoute a 1000 wikipedia entries to show otherwise, it still would not convince me. For my crit, I would say that the conecpt was on the weak side, and wished you would have tried a few more variations of your guy to see what works and what didn't. Otherwise I think your execution was good, and I personally agree that the scratches and such get to busy for me, it has to come down to what the artist personally likes at some point. I'm glad you finished, though maybe next year you realize that you had fought for the wrong team:), and just stay here.
I think he does look physically weak, which is not a plus in a war. But the execution of the initial concept is pretty good, I think in that sense it is professional.
I think more time in the design process would have helped the design overall, I dont see the judges really rating it because of its flimsy look. BUT the idea of a likable robot being the good guy in this saga does have tremendous potential. Thats what I would have done If I entered for 3dtotal, a likable personality in a crazy mechanical package. If you had spent extra time in the design process you definatley could have capitalised on that. So yea, more concepting and getting other peoples opinions would be a good idea, but it does have that poop style.
Good stuff ben, feed off the drama. I know you like it.
These personal attacks are laughable, you know where you stand as a artist, and know where you're going. And I respect you for that.
I hope nobody thinks I'm baggin' on poop... I have a lot of respect for his work and his commitment to helping this community. I can't speak for the others who aren't feeling this model, but for myself, I just don't vibe with it. I agree with many of the reasons that some others have given (scratches, feeling rushed, distracting use of contrast), but I'm definitely not trying to "flame" him.
Just to be clear... I don't want to be lumped in among the "flamers" because I choose not to particularly like the concept/model.
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I'm not talking about the motherfucking Art one fucking iota.
I'm simply suggesting that personal attacks in a contest thread are inappropriate.
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I just wanted to make sure I was clear on something. My comment wasn't meant as an attack on you personally. It was directed only at the distaste for the idea of locking off the ability to comment only if you had created an entry. That would only hurt those that had made entries by denying them feedback...bad or good in any manner, even if it wasn't a true critique.
This all aside from Poop's entry. I haven't made any comments about it or its' merit or execution. I've said it before Ben can model things just fine. The execution of modeling is good. The concept I can't say is my favorite by personal taste...but it is his choice. I would've seen a more sleak less damaged look towards the texturing to fit more with the concept of sniping and more than likely a more monochromatic subdued patterning seeing as snipers want to evade detection. The model itself has good topology and is executed as a model well.
So hopefully Daz, you won't think I was hating on you. I just was commenting on that idea of closed posting on dom war entries. I think even when somebody stomps a person even if it was for nothing, you grow as a person if anything. No beef here.
this monstrous derailment could probably have been avoided by using pm's guys... To come in here and troll around is not unlike telling a person off in public, it's just bad form...
It's fine that you are not getting along, but do the rest of us really need to be involved in this drama ?
And yeh it is pretty noisy, the forms dont real well at all...
All I can say is I get this mental image of Mr. Mathis reading this thread and laughing. Everyone just needs to chill. Its the internet fellas. In the end you get all worked up, your adreneline starts pumping, you start getting angry, and in the end, you are still just sitting in front of the computer.
Jaheezes. Some of you guys could make drill SGTs look like toys.
Sure TelekineticFrog. It was a stupid idea of course. Clearly there is no real way to police threads for content.
Apparently some folks thinks it's all big and tough and clever to drag ancient workplace feuds into a public forum post about a piece of art, and apparently those same people lack the intelligence, maturity and *professionalism* to understand that being a consistently unsavory character in a public forum whilst representing your company could quite possibly come back to bite you in the ass.
Gee, I would love to work at EA Mythic. What a pleasent, cordial, reasonable bunch of chaps you seem. I hope you're not looking for artists anytime soon.
And no, I don't feel remotely bad for derailing Ben's thread further. It was useless to him the second you kids dragged personal venom into it. That's me done with this.
For sure, in any field you inevitably come across a few people you don't like working with but you have a job to do. If you see them every day the last thing you need is further strained relationships. Its even more important in something as colaborative as game design.
Smirnoffka - so true, mental image of a guy throwing his screen against the wall lol.
Daz - Can you go through and delete the unproductive posts in this thread? It just seems really unfair to Poop to have his comp thread derailed like this.
On my forums I usually just delete the problem post and everything after it. I guess its different when crits are involved. I'll let this thread lie now unless it gets productive again..
Johny: I'm glad you enjoyed the final piece more than the concept. Seems to be a trend with my recent pieces. It's one of the reasons I want to start spending more time on my traditional stuff so that my concepts will be easier to sell visually. I think the same concept handed over to a more competent renderer would have been a lot more visually exciting and gotten more people behind the original idea.
Indian_boy: Thank you. I was trying to go for different and stylish, so I'm glad it's coming across as such. Unfortunately I'm not sure how many tutorials will come off it (other than the FX file and mini tutorial already posted in 2d/3d). I'm still putting together the tutorials from last years entry.
Dane: I answered you on IRC, but I figured I'll post the response on here too for people with similar questions. I figured the scratches were from all his sprinting around. In the character description, I said he was able to sprint at speeds of 100+ mph, and I wanted to originally put on scratches to show this. It started to clash with his exposed face a little, and I put on more scratches at the end then I had originally intended because I liked the look of them. Also, the bright colors are indeed supposed to be turned off. It's only when firing his gun that they power up. Looking back I needed to pick either stealth or shiny shiny and stick with one of them, but I was worried about him reading as too bland if I kept him all dark.
Daz: Thanks for the feedback. Glad you think it's unique. I persoanlly feel like there is no need to filter a map when showing it at this size. Either it needed a 2048 or it didn't. I like the details to show up, and I find the extreme sharpness visually pleasing. It's the same reason I leave my low poly stuff unfiltered in the textures too. I agree on the scratches looking too scribbled. I started with a much more appropriate technique, but adding them to an entire 2048 was going to take a bit too long that way so I sped it up some hoping that once wrapped on the moddle they'd look like real scratches and not scribbles. I think it succeeded in some places, and not as much in others. If I revisit it in the future I'll hit that. The material jump was actually what I was going for, in addition to the character history. I can see what you are saying about the warpaint mimicking cheek highlights. Maybe another color would have helped change that. I'll try that too if I hit this again. Thanks again!
Evil: We know you're just teasing, we love you despite your dutchiness.
Vahl: Yup, indeed the warpaint was a tribute to Battle Angel. As I said to Daz, if I get back to this character I'll try another color or maybe tone, to change them looking like highlights.
AdamBrome: It wasn't actually supposed to resemble Alita, just be inspired by it. I wanted to go with a more innocent face on a killing machine, a very lithe athletic body instead of a hulking killing machine. Think of it more as a jumping point than a literal interpetation. (oh yeah and male instead of female)
Jeffro: HAH! More bloominess you say? I dunno about that, but maybe you're on to something!
Spark: I actually spent several days on the concept, doing variations on the body silhouette as a whole, and individual parts until I came up with a direction I like. I understand you don't find it as appealing as it could be, but I think that might be a personal taste more than a rushed or unfinished aspect (the concept). Yeah, next year I'll stay and fight for polycount, I just really got jived at the robot idea, and had to go with Arshlevon, haha.
Asmuel: I agree he doesn't look like he'd win too many physical confrontations, that was my goal. I wanted him to look purpose driven, get in, snipe, get out. So all his engineering went towards those goals. As I said to Spark, I did spend a good deal of time on the concept. Despite this being a contest, I wanted to stay true to my personal aesthetics instead of trying to cater to a large demographic. I could tell from early on that it wouldn't be globablly popular, but it was the concept I really liked and wanted to bring to finish. I get art directed enough at work, and I don't like making art based on a forum popularity poll, so I make most aesthetic decisions myself. General design feedback or broad critique is always welcome, and I'll listen to any feedback people have, but if it comes down to personal aesthetic, or "this is what I would do if it were *my* piece", I mostly decline that advice.
Cep: LOL, you always know what to say. Thanks buddy.
Maulor: Not at all, I can recognize genuine feedback, I'm not lumping you in with anyone. I can appreciate that it doesn't jive with your personal aesthetics. I appreciate the time you spent to give the crit.
TelekenticFrog: You bring up a good point about the more subdued patterns. I really wish now I came up with a coloring that was both visually appealing *and* subdued. I still like the finished product, but it lost a bit of the sniper/stealth feel along the way because of the contrast choices.
Gavimage: He's not supposed to read as fragile, so much as athletic/purpose driven.
I think this is one of the most interesting experiments I've seen here so far. The model doesn't have the "in your face" beauty and coolness a big part of gamegraphics has, but I think I can see all the effort you put into the concept and idea behind it, let alone the execution.
The design is one of a kind, not something I'll forget anytime soon. The purpose driven idea works perfectly I think. All in all I think you achieved something really unique, your own style. I really love this one Ben, awesome job!
Wow, now after reading your last post I get it a whole lot better. My only crit with the design/concept would be to try and get more of what you wrote through in the finished product so explanations won't be necessary.
Still, great idea and I actually like the finished piece.
regardless of what some people are saying, i too am a fan of the extreme 'noise' going on by no filtering, it may seem like a stupid reason why, but i like it because it looks as if everything has been modeled, the realtime 'look' with no anti-aliasing is everywhere, and it just looks so much more detailed
overall, i really love how this turned out, the concept didnt really pull me, but the final result did, he does look determined to do his job
good luck with the comp and many thanks for the files and the uber shader, they should come in really helpful!
Some of the feedback given to Ben in this thread reminds me of Samurai and Hyper. . . If it's not really helpful feedback - in the sense that you can be confident it's going to be helpful to the person - then it's not going to matter, so why bother to post it?
I'm still a fan of the entry, but after looking over the construction sheet on your site I wanted to offer a few more crits.
The weakest part of the model/texture, I think, is the basic form of the cuirass. All it seems to have is a noisy spec fill, and it looks a bit awkward surrounded by the scratched/high contrast parts. Also, the organic portion of the torso and the wirey detail in the arm connection both lost a lost from the transition between Highpoly and the final piece. I think a more flattering texture (maybe some color variation on the wires, and a little baked shadowing on the organic parts?) would look an awful lot better.
eh, nothing notable about it except the face. Really dig the face, and the metal flappy things in the head are a neat design. The concept and the rest of the body look very rushed and unpolished though. Where's the detail? It really does feel like you didn't have the time to add details to the body so you just threw on the scratch map (several people who've walked by my monitor have said the same thing). If you simplified the face and took off the scratches, he'd make a neat stylized character. It's like you made a more simple stylized body, threw a realistic face on it, then realized the body wasnt realistic and dumped a bunch of wear on it without thinking about the other things that set stylized apart from realistic.
From a pure design standpoint though, he doesn't look like a sniper, I can't imagine bendy floppy feet would be especially stable for making those far-off presidential headshots.
Also, I do have to congratulate you poop, you've somehow domesticated Daz into your personal defense minister.
Overall, the first thing I thought when I saw this model is that he was indeed a sprinter. Mostly, it just reminded me of the 'C Leg' which was invented by Van Phillips and is used by many paraolympians today, because of the very efficent way it stores and releses energy.
In terms of the noisyness, it doesnt really bother me all that much, because it seems to be a much better representation of what the model would look like inside of a game engine, and not a render. Like poop said, it was a screengrab, not a render. I think that the character overall works.
I also think that a sniper would have that many scratches all over him. Can you imagine running through thick bush, diving on the ground at a seconds notice, crawling your way through sticks and brush, then getting up to sprint through the dense bush again. You would get scratched up like a motherfucker. I know that whenever I go on field excercises, I get a few scratches and cuts, and I only go for 2-3 days at a time. Imagine if you were out there for weeks at a time, and your scratches never healed. You would indeed be covered.
So, in my personal opinion, I think the character portrays his role very well just from a glance, and I think the execution of the model is also top knotch. Yes, we can all see that it is 'rushed', but fark, everyone here is saying how rushed their entry is, and they arent on holiday! I think it is an immense effort for poop to finish this, and I think that the end result is much more impressive than many people are giving it credit for. It may not tickle your fancy, but it is certainly not a 'shit' model.
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Also, I do have to congratulate you poop, you've somehow domesticated Daz into your personal defense minister.
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Either you didn't read the thread from start to finish, or your grasp of the english language needs more work. I provided honest feedback earlier in the thread. I simply managed to do it without acting like a total douchebag, but I know some people find that hard.
Clearly you failed to understand what my issue was. It was *totally* irrelevant who the poster was. I'm simply blown away that professional 3D artists deem it acceptable to express their personal resentment for an individual in what was meant to be a thread about a piece of Art.
I would have felt the EXACT same way if it was *ANY* other artist posting Art and receiving comments o' hate, smartass.
hey i am pretty jealous here, i am suppose to be the focus of all polycount hate, now poop comes in stealing my glory, you are a douche poop. you know how much i love getting attention and hated on.
i am not really going to comment on what was said, i know all the mythic kids in here and some are good friends. i do know that not many people at mythic were fond of poop, but i also know he was very well liked at neversoft, so i guess its all who you talk to.
all that aside what i dont understand is that basically shitting on someone's art and personal attacks are perfectly acceptable at polycount, but god forbid make a silly post in a worthless thread, that will get you banned.
So i think we need some clearer guidelines on what is acceptable behavior, obviously art isnt that important here and something awful-esqe, juvenile level humor takes top priority,as well as personal attacks, name calling and general flaming, all seem to be pretty acceptable. Its probably very confusing to new members so it should be clearly outlined in the rules and regulations.
I'm glad you finished your entry. The face in particular came out really nice, the likeness is impressive. I do agree that this could have used some more time for development and presentation. As for the style, I think that the leg design is one of the more original ideas in this comp, and that the character works nicely as a whole.
Damn where ever you go or work you are gonna have people that either like you or they don't. Off topic but when I was in the Navy I was voted one of the most hated people on my ship, but I was also one of the most trusted and go to guys for things and have friends that will last a lifetime. It's all on who you talk to.
I personally liked Ben's entry. I thought it was well executed and I can get the feeling why he put a lot of scratches on this guy. If he is running into a warzone, sniping a dude and getting out he's gonna get scratched up and beat up here and there. Who knows maybe he has been doing this for years and each and every scratch is a trophey to the damn guy.
Hell maybe he even is a bit emo and cuts himself. Who cares? It's all about personal preference and it's his art when it comes down to it.
So everyone with hate for ben or whatever it is just needs to let things go. I don't know you, you don't know me so I can't know what happened but i'm pretty sure he couldn't have done anything too extremely bad that you have to hold a grudge years down the road.
Unless of course he raped your daughters, impregnated your wives, ate your cat, and shit on your front porch. If he didn't do all of those things, and I mean everything on that list. Time to let go.
Asmuel: I agree he doesn't look like he'd win too many physical confrontations, that was my goal. I wanted him to look purpose driven, get in, snipe, get out. So all his engineering went towards those goals. As I said to Spark, I did spend a good deal of time on the concept. Despite this being a contest, I wanted to stay true to my personal aesthetics instead of trying to cater to a large demographic. I could tell from early on that it wouldn't be globablly popular, but it was the concept I really liked and wanted to bring to finish. I get art directed enough at work, and I don't like making art based on a forum popularity poll, so I make most aesthetic decisions myself. General design feedback or broad critique is always welcome, and I'll listen to any feedback people have, but if it comes down to personal aesthetic, or "this is what I would do if it were *my* piece", I mostly decline that advice.
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Thats cool man much respect.
I guess it all depends on what your aim is in the competition. If you want to have fun and make a cool personal peice then obviously thats fine and what you made is great. If you want to win, then it would be hard to if your trying to please your own taste rather than the judges, and the public (unless your taste is the same as theirs). I beleive the first stipulations on what you are being judged on were "How popular is your character" and "does he/she look like she can take on any opposition". So you kinda shot yourself in the foot by taking the route you did if you wanted a win, but I dont know if that was your aim.
Now that I look at it, I think the concept is very original and the amount of time you say you spent on concepting definatley shows . I was wrong in saying you needed to spend MORE time concepting, what I should have said is people may not like the direction you took while concepting.
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If you want to win, then it would be hard to if your trying to please your own taste rather than the judges, and the public (unless your taste is the same as theirs). I beleive the first stipulations on what you are being judged on were "How popular is your character" and "does he/she look like she can take on any opposition". So you kinda shot yourself in the foot by taking the route you did if you wanted a win, but I dont know if that was your aim.
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I'm sorry I have to disagree with that part, if doing something mainstream and trying to please everyone is the point of the contest, then it's not worth the effort, as professionnal game artist you have to do that on a daily basis, deal with art direction and market targets, if you have to do it for a contest involving personnal work in your spare time rather than doing a piece you like and that will serve your portfolio, then there is absolutely no point on entering.
I said that because by your reply poop, it seems this character is to your taste, but your own taste seems to contradict everyone elses, so how would you win unless your the one judging?
I never said anything about doing something mainstream, I was talking about doing something the judges will like. If the judges dont like it, you lose. Peppi's entry was by no means mainstream and it Fk'in owns.
I just think its a bad idea to go against the judging guidlines, and make something you KNOW wont be popular
I don't know if he "KNEW" it wouldn't be popular...
and the fact is, some people seem to really like it. Who knows, judges might end up really liking it too.
And I think the point of this contest is to play outside of the requirements of the professional gaming world. I tihnk the hope is to drive creativity and move things in a new direction. I can't say I particularly like this piece, but I think it's definitely original, and definitely outside of the popular mainstream. My opinion is that some of the elements take it to a place that isn't pleasing to the eye, but there's potential to make this character very cool, if he should choose to change a design he's currently happy with.
Poop, this is your art, and you only have to change it for you. But I agree that the competition is feirce, and your chances at winning this thing might not be good. But hey, winning isn't everything. You got a bunch of people all wriled up.. that's a victory in and of itself!
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you think maybe us working at the same company that poop worked at means maybe we "know" him? I sat in a cube across from him for a good ammount of time. I know more than just the Internet persona he throws out. Same with other people who work here.
- Doesn't that defeat the purpose of criticism? I also don't quite remember seeing an entry from you. Just saying... I don't care to argue the point or at all for that matter. If an artist can't take objectional views to their art regardless of tact or format then they can never progress.
Somebody may shit on your parade every now and then but even then maybe you have to look at even the harshest of views and see if maybe there is something behind them. I'm talking about the art...the thing of people not liking him personally, well that's another thing. I don't have anything to base that off of other than talking with you online and what i hear from those that do know you and I'm talking of those that know you not on the internet but in real life.
I'm simply suggesting that personal attacks in a contest thread are inappropriate.
Anyone who posts something like "this is shit" is a moron regardless of what they're talking about and regardless of who made the work. It's not constructive, it's not helpful, and it just makes them look like an idiot.
I really, really hope that someday one or two of the people in here apply for a job that they really want, only to get turned down because the guy in charge remembers the days when they acted like complete asses in a public forum.
And I'm sorry if my comments were misinterpreted. Just seems like any feedback I give is direct and blunt.
For anyone that is confused: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constructive_criticism
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Sorry, but i cant seem to find a single thing about this entry that i like, from concept to excution it all just seems rushed.
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Maybe offering some useful critiques would be more useful, EarthQuake? Right now yours is a fairly useless post.
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To elaborate, it seems like he took a very weak concept, modeled it strictly to said concept without trying to improve it in any way(even ignoring any critiques made on 3dtotal), and textured it in a style that was a complete contrast to the style of the model, and then presented it poorly.
Hopefully thats a bit more helpful.
[edit] Mojo you know i generally hate on you but damn, that was a fantastic post. You have my respect for actually speaking your mind and not being just another mindless drone.
poop: You're still one of the better modelers on here, as far as I'm concerned this is a rare miss.
Rhinokey try learning to control your emotions there buddy. You sound like a little baby. EQ learn what a proper critique is as well. Perhaps you should ask Poop, because he certainly does.
Spark
I think more time in the design process would have helped the design overall, I dont see the judges really rating it because of its flimsy look. BUT the idea of a likable robot being the good guy in this saga does have tremendous potential. Thats what I would have done If I entered for 3dtotal, a likable personality in a crazy mechanical package. If you had spent extra time in the design process you definatley could have capitalised on that. So yea, more concepting and getting other peoples opinions would be a good idea, but it does have that poop style.
Im not getting involved in flamewars lol
These personal attacks are laughable, you know where you stand as a artist, and know where you're going. And I respect you for that.
Just to be clear... I don't want to be lumped in among the "flamers" because I choose not to particularly like the concept/model.
I'm not talking about the motherfucking Art one fucking iota.
I'm simply suggesting that personal attacks in a contest thread are inappropriate.
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I just wanted to make sure I was clear on something. My comment wasn't meant as an attack on you personally. It was directed only at the distaste for the idea of locking off the ability to comment only if you had created an entry. That would only hurt those that had made entries by denying them feedback...bad or good in any manner, even if it wasn't a true critique.
This all aside from Poop's entry. I haven't made any comments about it or its' merit or execution. I've said it before Ben can model things just fine. The execution of modeling is good. The concept I can't say is my favorite by personal taste...but it is his choice. I would've seen a more sleak less damaged look towards the texturing to fit more with the concept of sniping and more than likely a more monochromatic subdued patterning seeing as snipers want to evade detection. The model itself has good topology and is executed as a model well.
So hopefully Daz, you won't think I was hating on you. I just was commenting on that idea of closed posting on dom war entries. I think even when somebody stomps a person even if it was for nothing, you grow as a person if anything. No beef here.
It's fine that you are not getting along, but do the rest of us really need to be involved in this drama ?
And yeh it is pretty noisy, the forms dont real well at all...
Ben, nice work. He is a fair bit too noisy, I think. He does seem to be a bit fragile, but depending on his purpose...that may not be a problem.
Gav
All I can say is I get this mental image of Mr. Mathis reading this thread and laughing. Everyone just needs to chill. Its the internet fellas. In the end you get all worked up, your adreneline starts pumping, you start getting angry, and in the end, you are still just sitting in front of the computer.
Jaheezes. Some of you guys could make drill SGTs look like toys.
cheers!
-indian_boy
Apparently some folks thinks it's all big and tough and clever to drag ancient workplace feuds into a public forum post about a piece of art, and apparently those same people lack the intelligence, maturity and *professionalism* to understand that being a consistently unsavory character in a public forum whilst representing your company could quite possibly come back to bite you in the ass.
Gee, I would love to work at EA Mythic. What a pleasent, cordial, reasonable bunch of chaps you seem. I hope you're not looking for artists anytime soon.
And no, I don't feel remotely bad for derailing Ben's thread further. It was useless to him the second you kids dragged personal venom into it. That's me done with this.
Smirnoffka -
Daz - Can you go through and delete the unproductive posts in this thread? It just seems really unfair to Poop to have his comp thread derailed like this.
On my forums I usually just delete the problem post and everything after it. I guess its different when crits are involved. I'll let this thread lie now unless it gets productive again..
Indian_boy: Thank you. I was trying to go for different and stylish, so I'm glad it's coming across as such. Unfortunately I'm not sure how many tutorials will come off it (other than the FX file and mini tutorial already posted in 2d/3d). I'm still putting together the tutorials from last years entry.
Dane: I answered you on IRC, but I figured I'll post the response on here too for people with similar questions. I figured the scratches were from all his sprinting around. In the character description, I said he was able to sprint at speeds of 100+ mph, and I wanted to originally put on scratches to show this. It started to clash with his exposed face a little, and I put on more scratches at the end then I had originally intended because I liked the look of them. Also, the bright colors are indeed supposed to be turned off. It's only when firing his gun that they power up. Looking back I needed to pick either stealth or shiny shiny and stick with one of them, but I was worried about him reading as too bland if I kept him all dark.
Daz: Thanks for the feedback. Glad you think it's unique. I persoanlly feel like there is no need to filter a map when showing it at this size. Either it needed a 2048 or it didn't. I like the details to show up, and I find the extreme sharpness visually pleasing. It's the same reason I leave my low poly stuff unfiltered in the textures too. I agree on the scratches looking too scribbled. I started with a much more appropriate technique, but adding them to an entire 2048 was going to take a bit too long that way so I sped it up some hoping that once wrapped on the moddle they'd look like real scratches and not scribbles. I think it succeeded in some places, and not as much in others. If I revisit it in the future I'll hit that. The material jump was actually what I was going for, in addition to the character history. I can see what you are saying about the warpaint mimicking cheek highlights. Maybe another color would have helped change that. I'll try that too if I hit this again. Thanks again!
Evil: We know you're just teasing, we love you despite your dutchiness.
Vahl: Yup, indeed the warpaint was a tribute to Battle Angel. As I said to Daz, if I get back to this character I'll try another color or maybe tone, to change them looking like highlights.
AdamBrome: It wasn't actually supposed to resemble Alita, just be inspired by it. I wanted to go with a more innocent face on a killing machine, a very lithe athletic body instead of a hulking killing machine. Think of it more as a jumping point than a literal interpetation. (oh yeah and male instead of female)
Jeffro: HAH! More bloominess you say? I dunno about that, but maybe you're on to something!
Spark: I actually spent several days on the concept, doing variations on the body silhouette as a whole, and individual parts until I came up with a direction I like. I understand you don't find it as appealing as it could be, but I think that might be a personal taste more than a rushed or unfinished aspect (the concept). Yeah, next year I'll stay and fight for polycount, I just really got jived at the robot idea, and had to go with Arshlevon, haha.
Asmuel: I agree he doesn't look like he'd win too many physical confrontations, that was my goal. I wanted him to look purpose driven, get in, snipe, get out. So all his engineering went towards those goals. As I said to Spark, I did spend a good deal of time on the concept. Despite this being a contest, I wanted to stay true to my personal aesthetics instead of trying to cater to a large demographic. I could tell from early on that it wouldn't be globablly popular, but it was the concept I really liked and wanted to bring to finish. I get art directed enough at work, and I don't like making art based on a forum popularity poll, so I make most aesthetic decisions myself. General design feedback or broad critique is always welcome, and I'll listen to any feedback people have, but if it comes down to personal aesthetic, or "this is what I would do if it were *my* piece", I mostly decline that advice.
Cep: LOL, you always know what to say. Thanks buddy.
Maulor: Not at all, I can recognize genuine feedback, I'm not lumping you in with anyone. I can appreciate that it doesn't jive with your personal aesthetics. I appreciate the time you spent to give the crit.
TelekenticFrog: You bring up a good point about the more subdued patterns. I really wish now I came up with a coloring that was both visually appealing *and* subdued. I still like the finished product, but it lost a bit of the sniper/stealth feel along the way because of the contrast choices.
Gavimage: He's not supposed to read as fragile, so much as athletic/purpose driven.
Thanks for the feedback guys.
The design is one of a kind, not something I'll forget anytime soon. The purpose driven idea works perfectly I think. All in all I think you achieved something really unique, your own style. I really love this one Ben, awesome job!
Still, great idea and I actually like the finished piece.
overall, i really love how this turned out, the concept didnt really pull me, but the final result did, he does look determined to do his job
good luck with the comp and many thanks for the files and the uber shader, they should come in really helpful!
The weakest part of the model/texture, I think, is the basic form of the cuirass. All it seems to have is a noisy spec fill, and it looks a bit awkward surrounded by the scratched/high contrast parts. Also, the organic portion of the torso and the wirey detail in the arm connection both lost a lost from the transition between Highpoly and the final piece. I think a more flattering texture (maybe some color variation on the wires, and a little baked shadowing on the organic parts?) would look an awful lot better.
From a pure design standpoint though, he doesn't look like a sniper, I can't imagine bendy floppy feet would be especially stable for making those far-off presidential headshots.
Also, I do have to congratulate you poop, you've somehow domesticated Daz into your personal defense minister.
In terms of the noisyness, it doesnt really bother me all that much, because it seems to be a much better representation of what the model would look like inside of a game engine, and not a render. Like poop said, it was a screengrab, not a render. I think that the character overall works.
I also think that a sniper would have that many scratches all over him. Can you imagine running through thick bush, diving on the ground at a seconds notice, crawling your way through sticks and brush, then getting up to sprint through the dense bush again. You would get scratched up like a motherfucker. I know that whenever I go on field excercises, I get a few scratches and cuts, and I only go for 2-3 days at a time. Imagine if you were out there for weeks at a time, and your scratches never healed. You would indeed be covered.
So, in my personal opinion, I think the character portrays his role very well just from a glance, and I think the execution of the model is also top knotch. Yes, we can all see that it is 'rushed', but fark, everyone here is saying how rushed their entry is, and they arent on holiday! I think it is an immense effort for poop to finish this, and I think that the end result is much more impressive than many people are giving it credit for. It may not tickle your fancy, but it is certainly not a 'shit' model.
Also, I do have to congratulate you poop, you've somehow domesticated Daz into your personal defense minister.
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Either you didn't read the thread from start to finish, or your grasp of the english language needs more work. I provided honest feedback earlier in the thread. I simply managed to do it without acting like a total douchebag, but I know some people find that hard.
Clearly you failed to understand what my issue was. It was *totally* irrelevant who the poster was. I'm simply blown away that professional 3D artists deem it acceptable to express their personal resentment for an individual in what was meant to be a thread about a piece of Art.
I would have felt the EXACT same way if it was *ANY* other artist posting Art and receiving comments o' hate, smartass.
i am not really going to comment on what was said, i know all the mythic kids in here and some are good friends. i do know that not many people at mythic were fond of poop, but i also know he was very well liked at neversoft, so i guess its all who you talk to.
all that aside what i dont understand is that basically shitting on someone's art and personal attacks are perfectly acceptable at polycount, but god forbid make a silly post in a worthless thread, that will get you banned.
So i think we need some clearer guidelines on what is acceptable behavior, obviously art isnt that important here and something awful-esqe, juvenile level humor takes top priority,as well as personal attacks, name calling and general flaming, all seem to be pretty acceptable. Its probably very confusing to new members so it should be clearly outlined in the rules and regulations.
I less than three you all!
I personally liked Ben's entry. I thought it was well executed and I can get the feeling why he put a lot of scratches on this guy. If he is running into a warzone, sniping a dude and getting out he's gonna get scratched up and beat up here and there. Who knows maybe he has been doing this for years and each and every scratch is a trophey to the damn guy.
Hell maybe he even is a bit emo and cuts himself. Who cares? It's all about personal preference and it's his art when it comes down to it.
So everyone with hate for ben or whatever it is just needs to let things go. I don't know you, you don't know me so I can't know what happened but i'm pretty sure he couldn't have done anything too extremely bad that you have to hold a grudge years down the road.
Unless of course he raped your daughters, impregnated your wives, ate your cat, and shit on your front porch. If he didn't do all of those things, and I mean everything on that list. Time to let go.
Mostly it's just petty to get all worked up on a messageboard... especially because it's a small world, and no job lasts forever ya know?
and btw ben. the model is pretty cool:D
Asmuel: I agree he doesn't look like he'd win too many physical confrontations, that was my goal. I wanted him to look purpose driven, get in, snipe, get out. So all his engineering went towards those goals. As I said to Spark, I did spend a good deal of time on the concept. Despite this being a contest, I wanted to stay true to my personal aesthetics instead of trying to cater to a large demographic. I could tell from early on that it wouldn't be globablly popular, but it was the concept I really liked and wanted to bring to finish. I get art directed enough at work, and I don't like making art based on a forum popularity poll, so I make most aesthetic decisions myself. General design feedback or broad critique is always welcome, and I'll listen to any feedback people have, but if it comes down to personal aesthetic, or "this is what I would do if it were *my* piece", I mostly decline that advice.
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Thats cool man
I guess it all depends on what your aim is in the competition. If you want to have fun and make a cool personal peice then obviously thats fine and what you made is great. If you want to win, then it would be hard to if your trying to please your own taste rather than the judges, and the public (unless your taste is the same as theirs). I beleive the first stipulations on what you are being judged on were "How popular is your character" and "does he/she look like she can take on any opposition". So you kinda shot yourself in the foot by taking the route you did if you wanted a win, but I dont know if that was your aim.
Now that I look at it, I think the concept is very original and the amount of time you say you spent on concepting definatley shows
If you want to win, then it would be hard to if your trying to please your own taste rather than the judges, and the public (unless your taste is the same as theirs). I beleive the first stipulations on what you are being judged on were "How popular is your character" and "does he/she look like she can take on any opposition". So you kinda shot yourself in the foot by taking the route you did if you wanted a win, but I dont know if that was your aim.
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I'm sorry I have to disagree with that part, if doing something mainstream and trying to please everyone is the point of the contest, then it's not worth the effort, as professionnal game artist you have to do that on a daily basis, deal with art direction and market targets, if you have to do it for a contest involving personnal work in your spare time rather than doing a piece you like and that will serve your portfolio, then there is absolutely no point on entering.
I never said anything about doing something mainstream, I was talking about doing something the judges will like. If the judges dont like it, you lose. Peppi's entry was by no means mainstream and it Fk'in owns.
I just think its a bad idea to go against the judging guidlines, and make something you KNOW wont be popular
and the fact is, some people seem to really like it. Who knows, judges might end up really liking it too.
And I think the point of this contest is to play outside of the requirements of the professional gaming world. I tihnk the hope is to drive creativity and move things in a new direction. I can't say I particularly like this piece, but I think it's definitely original, and definitely outside of the popular mainstream. My opinion is that some of the elements take it to a place that isn't pleasing to the eye, but there's potential to make this character very cool, if he should choose to change a design he's currently happy with.
Poop, this is your art, and you only have to change it for you. But I agree that the competition is feirce, and your chances at winning this thing might not be good. But hey, winning isn't everything. You got a bunch of people all wriled up.. that's a victory in and of itself!
I could tell from early on that it wouldn't be globablly popular, but it was the concept I really liked and wanted to bring to finish.
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That was from his reply to my comments.