Amsterdam

osman

Ok this is my first serious try to create a map for Counter Strike: Source. This is going to something like the amsterdam canals.
Ive got more images on my website(from beginning till what it is now) : www.onepunchmachine.wordpress.com

zenarion

Thats great.
Altho the bricks on the walls arent aligned with the bridge bricks that well.

osman

thanks for pointing that out ,will fix it asap.
Here's one with a better fitting sky:

Tumerboy

the archway bricks seem kind of soft & cartoony to me and they don't look like they really support anything, but are more of a veneer. What's the stuff behind them & to the right on the first picture? I'd tighten up the gaps & overhang significantly.

Rob Galanakis

The arch-bricks should be angled/shaved/beveled, so they sit flush with each other... this is why they look like a veneer and don't support weight.

I really like it though. Good start.

osman

thnx,ill try and fix the bricks, any tips on how to not make it look soft and cartoony?

Daz

Well, the way they're shading isn't really helping. Perhaps the bevels are too large scale?

Apart from fixing their shape, you should probably add a keystone. That's pretty much how stone arches are built:

"As the keystone is pushed downwards by the load above it, its wedge shape means that it pushes outward onto the voussoirs to each side. Thus the forces are spread sideways, rather than downwards, and thence around the arch. Ultimately, the entire load (the weight both of the bridge itself and of any traffic crossing it) is transferred partly down into the ground and partly out to the elements of the bridge to either side of the keystone."


http://www.makingthemodernworld.org.uk/learning_modules/maths/02.TU.03/?section=4

osman

Ive changed some stuff, but I kinda like the old one?:(

Tumerboy

Still soft & fluffy. . . tighten up the gaps, and harden the edges if necessary. This is also true of the curbstones up top.

The keystone seems undersized to me, I'd scale it up to make it more proportional with the rest of the bridge. I'd also bring the bottom edge down to meet the rest of the arch. As it is it looks like the bridge is ready to collapse.

I think all of the main support stones protrude too far. If you look at Daz's arch referrence, most of the arch bridges I've seen have the support arch flush with the rest of it, rather than sticking out. It's diferentiated only by color/type of stone used, rather than actually offset. This also adds to the veneer feeling of the stones.

Why do the voussiors stop just above the water? The stones should extend to the base of the bridge which is presumably underwater someplace.

And what's with the mirrored rust/water stains on either side? Is there a drain or something up top that I'm not aware of?

osman

its the source engine that makes all my smoothing groups dissappear, ive really no idea how to export it the right way.
The reason the stones are sticking is that I actualy tought it was some kind of decoration on top of it.
Thanks for the crits, ill try to fix as much as possible, im glad i posted it over here, tho it wasnt my plan to focus that much on realism:)
Btw, i think i somehow lowered the water, thats the reason the stone isnt going all the way down, and that mirrored stain, if you look at the second reference i posted, thats the stain i was trying to imitate.
Oh and here's couple images that I used as reference, i mixed these with some others.

Japhir

there is actually no keystone in the reference... weird

Tumerboy

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darwinist/21542160/
Notice that there are waterstains, but they are spread all along the upper edge. Having 2 in very specific spots makes me look for a reason for them to be there. Having them along the whole top edge means that it doesn't need a specific purpose.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iapx/243387961/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/68778136@N00/242203124/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bosihimself/397637083/

Yes, the curb stones overhange the walls of the bridge, but the actual supportive arch is fairly flush with the filler brick.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maltloafer/88636838/
again, color & stone type differentiate the main arch from the surrounding brick. Not any protrusion. That doesn't mean you have to cut up the surrounding mesh to fit them in. You can model them as overlays to save polys, just make sure they don't protrude more than an inch or so.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/malingering/58860655/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/siebe/145643843/
http://www-zeuthen.desy.de/students/2004/img_amsterdam_bridge.jpg

admittedly the Amsterdam bridges don't have an obvious keystone, so I think you can get rid of that if you like. The keystone still exists (it's the top center stone) but the way the Amsterdam bridges are made, the keystone just looks like all the voussiors.

Daz

[ QUOTE ]
there is actually no keystone in the reference... weird

[/ QUOTE ]

As Tumerboy alludes to, there is ALWAYS a central brick at the top of the arch, and not a crack between two bricks. That's the keystone. Wether or not it looks different from the other bricks is gravy.

osman

woa, thanks for the help guys, ill try to modify it, but im not gonna spend too much time on it, might destroy the fun on working on this thing, ill post a screenshot when ive got something new:)
thanks again.

Tumerboy

Sorry if we're centering on something that isn't the main focus, but well . . . there isn't a whole lot else to critique at this point.

osman

Nah I really appreciate it, I started working on some buildings, will post them up soon so there will be more to critique on.

JO420

When you do the building make sure to tilt them foward or sideways a tad. Alot of the buildings here do that because over time they sink a little bit.


As for the bridges you can really vary them up a bit,no two bridges are the same in the city.

osman

advies van een echte amsterdammer :P
thx man,

JO420

[ QUOTE ]
advies van een echte amsterdammer :P
thx man,

[/ QUOTE ]


Nee ik ben niet een Nederlander

Ik ben Amerikanse

Xaltar

Wow, I understood that

Ek kan Afrikaans praat maar nie te good nie...

Very similar to dutch

JO420

As you should they are very alike,my last art director was south African and had no problem communicating in Dutch

osman

Oh sorry JO420
Ok here's a new screenshot, im having lots of trouble tho, my window does reflect in the model viewer but not in-game:S, I think it has something to do with the HL2 Cubemaps.
Ok ive got alot of work to do on the buildings, but crits are welcome. Im not gonna place those too next to eachother, this is just to see what height looks better( i may place them both in the map, but at different locations, and different wall textures)

edit:(ok i turned off HDR lighting and it looks abit better, but still not fixed

JO420

The water drain hole,i dont recall ever really seeing anything like that along the canals of Amsterdam. i could be wrong but i dont really recall seeing one.

Xaltar

Looking pretty good so far. Keep at it.

JO420 - yeah, I'm from Zimbabwe origionaly, I learned Afrikaans in school, kinda a family tradition. I'm very rusty but I can get by talking to dutch people

osman

thnx, here a "sketch" I did, Im gonna replace, add, remove,change alot in here cus it lacks variation in the buildings,this was just to see if it wouldn look all to ugly. There's more on my page.

Spoon_of_death

Hmmmm, might be because of the reference you used but almost all the houses by the canals are at least 4 floors high, make them taller. Theres is also always a (small) window directly below the 'pole' that they used to lift things into the buildings.