Cloth - Sliding through anatomy/Exploding.

Michael

Hello there. I am currently working with 3ds Max 8 and the Cloth modifier trying to finish up the model I will be using for my final in Animation I at ITT-Tech. Under Object Properties I have set the cloth to run off of a preset for Satin (I've tried other presets but the results are generally the same.) and added my characters mesh as a collision Object. I've tried setting the Depth and Offset to various numbers... from 0-100, with seemingly random occurences. Am I missing another setting somewhere? Regardless, I believe my spine is shaping itself into an S, so I'm going to step away from this for a while. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ciao,
Michael

Ninjas

There is no way to fix cloth simulation in Max. It is completely broken. I think 8 still has the other cloth system using Reactor. It is also useless, but breaks under different circumstances.

If you can get access to Max 9, the cloth solver is very slightly imporved over 8, but still awful.

If I were you I would ditch the idea of using cloth, or hand animate it somehow (which sounds bad, until you try to get a cloth sim to work). Good luck!

Michael

That's a real shame. Well, are there any alternative plugins for 8 that are worth anything? Even if they cost, I am hoping to find something long term for Animation, as I am highly interested in the topic. I would try to get a hold of 9, but I doubt my school would consider it. :P

Thanks for all of your help.

arshlevon

actually i have gotten very good results with the cloth modifier in max. it use to be called stitch and i owned that plugin.. there are some things to consider.

1. make sure everything is to scale and xforms have been reset. this is major everything has to be the actual size.

2. never use your your animation mesh as a collision object, make a lower res proxy mesh that is rigged and a turbo smooth over that. use proxy meshes when ever possible, also you can just skin wrap your proxy to the animation mesh and you dont have to rig it.

3. make sure your proxy mesh is water tight.. meaning no holes, use the border select and drag select over the entire proxy to see if it has any holes in it.

thats a start, but yeah it can take a little tweaking, but its a fairly robust cloth sim, only other plugin i have used that tops it is syflex but its only for every other 3d package except max. also refer to the tutorials that come with max for the cloth mod they are pretty good to start. and there are also some good tips here.
http://www.time-in-motion.com/Hyp-Tutorial-Cloth-Main.php

Eric Chadwick

I liked this movie, not that I use cloth or anything, but it's nice to look at.
http://download.autodesk.com/3dportal/movies/max_videos/max9_cloth_medium.mov

Michael

Well, I messed with it some more and it appears to be working now, though albeit a little glitchy. Thanks for all the help. Btw, the Cloth Modifier does work apparently if taken through the proper steps, as the vertex layout supplied by the garment maker appears to allow the mesh to deform properly around the model. Also, just looking at the modifier stack in the video helped a bunch, Thanks! ^^

FatAssasin

Check out this site for some really good cloth tips:
http://www.losart3d.com/Main/main.htm

Go to the "Download" section. You'd think the tutorials would be in the "Tutorials" section, but whatever.

Don't be afraid to crank up the poly count on your cloth and collision objects, it might take longer to sim but it will be more accurate and give you fewer headaches in the long run.

Don't try to get perfect results from the sim itself. There's always going to be penetration issues. Just add an edit mesh or poly modifier on top and fix problem areas by hand. Also, the relax modifier combined with a mesh select underneath it can do wonders. This is all in Carlos' tutorial.

And check out the site of the cloth master, Paul Hormis:
http://www.hyperent.com/

There are some tuts there and, his turbosquid DVD is definitely worth getting.

Ninjas

Well, I stand corrected. I used the old reactor cloth extensively and rarely did it ever work, and I have had no luck with the newer plug-in, but it seems Arsh has more experience with it.

Michael

Well, what happens to me is... if I try to apply the cloth modifier to say, a modeled shirt that I've placed over the character... the collisions fail quickly. But, if I create the outline for a shirt using Splines and then apply the Garment Modifier it actually creates a side of the same object but with a mesh specific for collisions. It's kinda confuses me as to why the proper mesh wouldn't be configured with the Cloth modifier... but, yeah. Now I'm trying to get several layers of the garments to react to one another all at once. Of course, there won't be much in the detail department for the clothes, but this is already way more then is needed for a more then passing grade in Animation I. (I still haven't even rigged the model, which I shall hide the garments to do.)

thomasp

why not get one layer of cloth to look right first, bake that, simulate the next layer and so on?

Michael

Apparently, there is no other way, since all active objects using the cloth modifier must use the exact same setup as another. Meaning I can't run them simultaneously as far as I know, so I have to do it that way.

arshlevon

you really should for love of god only sim one piece of clothing at a time... there are several ways to bake the data, you can save the cache or just hit the create keys button once your happy with one part of the clothing, it bakes all the animation data into the mesh and deletes the cloth modifier, now you can do the next piece of clothing and even use your simulated cloth pieces as a collision objects...
remember to work inside out, so pants first then shirt.. ect..
also you can amp up the collision offset to keep it out of the mesh and always do a negative push modifier to bring it back as close as you can get it to the surface, also adding a shell modifier to the cloth after you bake the animation data adds depth and can really help it look like its not just floating off the surface. unless you modeled depth in your cloth before you did the sim which is a no no..

AlexanderLawrence

Yeah, exactly what Arsh said.

And I'd like to add that using splines with the Garment Maker modified applied to them results in clothing that is usually better for simulating than if you had modeled clothing using normal techniques.

Archanex

Arsh- Why is it important to make your proxy mesh water tight? I've been following the work of Paul Hormis and as far as I know he's never mentioned anything about that but I'd like to hear your take on the matter

Frankie V

If your mesh is not welded (water tight) the simulation could tear at the point where it is not welded or penetrate at the open edge of your proxy. The STL modifier is great for error checking.

As an after thought here is a cloth “test” that I did a while ago.

The lighting sucks and the animation is crude not to mention the simulation explodes at the end but I wanted to see how well the cloth sim would work if push hard to extremes using a low sub-sampling setting and the default cloth settings.

Though it would give ya all a haha and show that the cloth simulation does indeed work as advertised.

http://www.3d-frankiev.com/OutBox/dance3.avi