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Dominance War II - Incomitatum

Incomitatum
polycounter lvl 17
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Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
He is GOR.

This is a VERY rough concept. I will do a few more shots and poses of him, as well as a Digital Painting. This will be great for me, because though my texturing skills are good, my Modeling and Rigging are not so good.

GOR_001.jpg
http://www.andrewchason.com/DOM/GOR_001.jpg

*EDIT* I am having issues of the image not coming up so here is the manual link...

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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    This is a little closer to what I want out of it, I have left the arms off on purpose.
    GOR_002.jpg
    http://www.andrewchason.com/DOM/GOR_002.jpg
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  • Steve Schulze
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    Steve Schulze polycounter lvl 18
    Kinda reminds me of the Black Cherubim from Doom 3.
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    I will have to look at them. So I can stay away from that design.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_enemies_in_Doom_3

    Ah! I see.
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    GOR_003.jpg
    http://www.andrewchason.com/DOM/GOR_003.jpg

    Threw an Arm in there. The other is plain and unarmored.

    Gonna paint over this guy now, minus an arm.
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    GOR_004.jpg
    http://www.andrewchason.com/DOM/GOR_004.jpg

    I may change the colors on the ... back?... but this is the general feel I want to go with. Tanned Skin, a few scars, tatoos... Sewn Leather...
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Here I have drawn over GOR and shown you his new "Year 3000" Armor.

    The Gun and sword are in the next pic, pretty much unchanged.

    Soon-ish I will do a paint-over to show you what NEW color scheme I have for him.
    GOR_005.jpg
    http://www.andrewchason.com/DOM/GOR_005.jpg

    GOR_006.jpg
    http://www.andrewchason.com/DOM/GOR_006.jpg

    Can anyone see the pics IN the thread?!
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  • indian_boy
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    indian_boy
    no, i cn't see them at least... try using a host like imageshack.us or slibe.com... they provide u with text to put in and the img always shows up...
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Fixed it. AndrewChason.com is a mask of AzureProductions.com/andrew. THAT was creating the problem. All fixed...
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Not doing too well with the modeling. Guns and things are a lot easier. However, this is one of the reasons I joined all this. I need to get better.

    It doesn't look TOO bad TurboSmoothed, but that's more Polys than I have to work with.

    Wish I new a better way in Max to Render Wire-Frames, for now I am using the Tile Texture turned down to one, and Faceted...
    GOR_007.jpg
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    I think part of my problem is I didn't have a better reference.

    Gonna do it like I have seen so many others. Set these up as planes in Max and go from there...

    GOR_008.jpg
    GOR_009.jpg
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    I don't know if you can say if I know what I am doing or not.

    Going through the motions, I hope this helps me later.

    Just a quick Paint-over in PhotoShop, holding SHIFT all the way.
    GOR_010.jpg
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  • indian_boy
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    indian_boy
    stay away from turbo-smooth and mesh-smooth... especially for low-poly models...

    just set all the faces to the same smoothing group, and add edges, and tweak vertices till it looks good. Don't forget to turn some triangles too... i don't know the technicalities behind triangle turning... but i do it by eye... hope it helps!
    good luck!
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    I am going to dribble my head against the wall. I am trying a face modeling tutorial here...

    http://67.15.36.49/team/Tutorials/making_face/making_face03.asp

    But I have so many open splines. It's all ONE LINE, but, and I can't get the vertices to weld. Oh they Fuze, but that's a big lie. I need them to WELD, and nothing it working and my SURFACE is all screwed up.

    The Blues are all my extra beginnings, and the red would be the end if I had my way.
    Any help is appreciated.
    GOR_HELP_001.jpg
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    I powered through the bugs and was able to work this out...

    GOR_011.jpg
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Anyone have anything to say about, any of this?
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  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    very difficult to judge a model when it's presented like that - the 3d version has almost no light and shadow, so it's tough to tell anything other than the silhouette.
    also, the wireframe view looks very messy, but again it's hard to judge without it being overlaid on a solid shaded view of the model.

    try rendering without whatever GI solution you have going on there, or even better just take a screenshot from the viewport with the wireframe and flat-shaded mode on.

    from what I can tell, your poly use isn't very efficient, you have lots of polys in straight lines which aren't defining any shape and volume, and you have a seemingly random mix of quads and tris.

    also, the tutorial you're following there doesn't seem like a very good one, which may be where you're picking up some bad habits and slow techniques.

    try looking at Ben Mathis' tutorials and tips here, you will learn a lot!

    keep it up smile.gif

    Edit: Oh and I quickly made up an image with some tips on one of your weapons - the same possible solutions i've suggested with this can be applied to most of your concepts though, since you seem to have gone with the first idea you thought was cool, rather than exploring shapes and designs with thumbnailing... as a result, I think your design is suffering and could easily be improved.
    Hope this helps:
    incom-paint.jpg
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  • mvelasquez
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    mvelasquez
    word. just use printscreen. its easier to view your wires, and its a lot faster than rendering.
    try drawing the edge loops directly on top of your ortho again this time try adhering to his example.
    new_head2.jpg

    dont give up!
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Do you know any references, articles, tutorials that can teach the the theories behind effective thumb nailing and why it is the standard?

    I will practice this more, but also seek to -learn- at the same time.

    Thank you for your example it has helped. I am a follower of the POOP, so I will look at his other Tutorials more. He taught me how to Unwrap.

    That is why I joined you guys. Your feedback is life changing, and sometimes I am too narow to see that my design sucks, or needs improving.

    -Andrew B. Chason
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  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    I don't think you really need to look at a tutorial (although I'll try to dig up some reference links for you) to find out why thumbnailing is a standard practice in concept development. Some reasons I'd put forth are:
    1. It's fast and easy to do
    2. You can create a ton of radically different silhouettes and shapes, then pick one you like best as a base for detailing and refining.
    3. You might come across different ideas you hadn't even considered before, just by letting your brain examine semi-random shapes and silhouettes.

    This is a really extreme example, but check out Paul Richard's site ( http://www.autodestruct.com/concept.htm ) - he has one of the best examples of thumbnailing I've seen ... although really most of his thumbnails are full concepts in their own right. But you'll see that whenever he's designing stuff from something as simple as a chair or crate, to a full character, he'll do a ton of different sketches so that the best suited design can be picked.
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks for that, and yeah, his work is amazing. Also, is there a problem with mixing quads and tris? I a quad is made of 2 tris, right?

    -Andrew
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  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    oh, no problem mixing quads and tris ... but usually you'll find that well-constructed models are predominantly one or the other, not a crazy mashup of both. I'd recommend sticking to quads mostly while you're building a mesh, since it's easier to select edge loops and rings that way, and cut new edges in. If I was working in triangles, I'd work in all triangles, just so I didn't confuse myself smile.gif
    But I guess it's up to you since it's your model, just saying it's not really standard practise to mix them to such an extent, and as a result looks quite odd, harder to understand the mesh just by looking at it.
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    A Colleague of mine and I were discussing my problems (with the model) over a drink and he mentioned that he has received help from a plugin called Polyboost. He is a big fan of Edge-Modeling, and he says he starts with the loops for the eye and then for the lips and works them together from there. Is there any merit to this method, or have I misunderstood him. Do any of you use, like, hate, Polyboost?

    Thank you again.

    -Andrew
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  • MoP
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    MoP polycounter lvl 18
    Polyboost is a really nice plugin, but you don't need it to model in that manner.
    It's a good way of working, not everyone uses it, but I have seen very good results from this method. If you start with a quad in EPoly in Max, just hold down Shift and drag an edge with the move tool active, it should extrude it - this way you can pull out loops to rough in a shape very quickly.
    Polyboost just adds some fancy tools for doing certain operations quickly, but at this stage I'd recommend you just focus on nailing down a solid technique for modelling before worrying about any additional tools.
    Personally I model from boxes and just cut/move edges into position, starting with very low detail to rough in the forms and masses, and gradually add more edge loops and rings to define the forms.
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  • Incomitatum
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    Incomitatum polycounter lvl 17
    Well, I was humbled by this -and- GDC. I am not giving up, I am just going to have to learn more, and try harder.

    My brain and I have been talking, and we have decided we don't want to, "Suck at life".

    This semester is going to be focused on learning Z Brush, as well as more Edge Modeling. I bought the Sword Master Tutorial from 3D total, and may learn how to do characters as well.

    Thank you all for you help,

    -Andrew B. Chason
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