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Character: Violet (nudity)

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  • Ferg
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    Ferg polycounter lvl 17
    seriously?


    edit-
    I only ask because of stuff like this from your site:
    ravensoft.jpg
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
    hawt.





    no, seriously, we can tell that this is probably one of your first tries, and if so, nice job on getting through to the (semi) end. What you really need to do is this: start over. Find yourself some really good reference and build a model off of that reference as accurately as you can. Doing this a second time will probably only take a fraction of the time it took you to do this one.
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    what was your goal when designing her? why is she nude? why do her boobs resemble a middle-aged pornstar? why are her eyes facing out? ask yourself these things as you are working.

    use reference dammit!!!
  • Gmanx
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    Gmanx polycounter lvl 19
    Get some at 3d.sk (even the thumbnails will help), or look at got3d's free stuff (no nudity).
  • Mark Dygert
    For a first or second try, its a good start.

    I have some time to kill and a new keyboard so that means monster verbose posts while I break it in! If you read all of this I applaud you, if you learn something and aren't in a comma by the end then mission accomplished. This is also an impromptu guide for newbie female modeling and some of this might not apply to this model but might apply to other people reading it.

    Here is a quick and dirty list of what stands out and screams fix me:
    - The jugs, do they actually defy gravity or is she just pressed up against a piece of glass we can't see? the nipple color is a weird orange. Most nipples I have see tend toward a brown/tan hue rather than mutant orange. Also the texture stretching is obvious since her nipples are odd shapes. More than likely you painted them correctly and round, on the 2D texture, but the stretching is warping them.

    Hands
    - The hands are far from normal. It looks like you extruded some shapes counted them up and called it good. Hands are VERY VERY important in giving a character, character. It is often over looked in 2 departments art and animation. Normally you can only control one of those so make sure you do your job correctly and the blame falls on the animation team =P
    - Study hands, really honestly look at hands, get a few books about drawing hands. Look for images of the hands without skin (drawings of hands without skin if you're squeamish). Don't think that one set of hands is like all the rest. Normally computer dorks like ourselves have thin fingers and strong tendon and vein definition, unless you're a heavy set computer dork in which case stop modeling and worry about your health or you won't be around to get better. Either way those hands are more than likely totally different than that of a female hot chick. You can start from a good set of androgynous hands and customize them for each model you do, just make sure to pay attention to them. What you do with your hands often determines the shape and bulk of fingers. Right now, your model, has the hands of John Hennery the steel driving man, who managed to hit his own thumb and smash the tip all crazy. I see very little wrist, and knuckle definition. If you model each finger, you need to make sure they will bend in the right places, this gives you a chance to give the fingers shape and form and have them look like something other than sausage links.

    I think you didn't spend much time on the hands because you under value their importance.

    The face
    - The features of her face sit low on her head either that or her forehead looks too be too tall. I don't see a side view which makes it hard to judge but I think her forehead is leaning forward. It could be that she is looking out her top eyelids tho... Strong confident people perk their head up, almost like they are pointing at things with their chin. Their eyes often point down the face as if they are looking down their noses. 90% of hot people know they are hot and it goes to their head. It doesn't match the passive weak look your model has going.
    - The eyes are bigger than normal, yes magazines and media often blow up eyes to make people look sexier, but I don't think you are ready to start exaggerating features to make something look sexier.

    A word of advice about perceived hotness
    I would caution everyone that tries to make their first female model, ubber smokin hot! Take a step back, a deep breath and look at some ref. Turn it down a notch or two, chances are you'll blow out the features trying to get it to look , ubber smokin hot! if you don’t use reference. The ass will stick out too far, the jugs will be big and defy gravity, the arms will be too short, the forehead is always huge and chins so small you wonder if the exist. Those are all trademarks of people who fail to use reference and go by what they “think hot is”, they make big the important things that stand out as being a key feature of hot and make tiny the things they really don’t care about or don’t think contribute to making a person hot. Everyone has a bunch of different ideas of what hot is, and most of them lead you down a road that is totally not what makes a the female form attractive, this almost always shines thru in someone’s first few models. Shoot for what you see in reference not what you think hot is. As you start to model from reference you start to look at your model and think, damn its hot but not nearly as blown out as I would have thought I had to model it. It’s good to get that first garish cartoon wanna-be real but falls short of anime chick, done and over with. The next time around model off a solid piece of good reference and compare the two modeled, this is where the rubber meets the road and you start to really learn how to model without ref. What I found as I modeled off of reference is that hot chicks have more boring shapes than what I thought, and in my attempt to make them hotter and look right I was going the wrong way, don’t make the same mistakes.

    You have to learn to crawl before you can fly, this is why people don’t toss toddlers off of roof tops and this is why people shouldn’t try to model ubber hot chicks before they get the basics down or really know what they are modeling. They both hit the ground with a sickening splat and leave a stain that is mentally scarring.

    The hair
    - Hair is hard, very hard, most people side step it by tying it up or pinning it down, and for the first few models because there is so much more to worry about I suggest everyone do just that. Long loose flowing hair can drive you made as you try and get it to look right.
    - The hair on the model is a good attempt but the lack of texturing skill shines thru and the hair geometry laying over the top of the skull is a bad idea. If you have an opacity map for the tips of the hair, you didn't use it to its full extent. The hair is too straight as if it is wet, just combed and freshly cut. Even if that is the case, it doesn't stay like that unless you coat it in 60lbs of lacquer, and apply a fresh layer of shellac every 60 min. Ask any chick and they will tell you, hair moves around unless you pin it down, tie it up or coat it in varnish. It gets tangled, and constantly needs to be combed and brushed out of the face, tucked behind the ears or blown out of the way. There is a huge industry that revolves around keeping hair in place and while it is often good for style to use these products, you don't want to use them to the extent this model is. Maybe in 1985 it was ok to use that much moose to make hair bullet proof, but not today. Look at the models hair, and look at hair reference there is a metric F-TON of it on the web. See how the tips of the hair blend with nothing? You need to recreate that with the opacity map. There are a bunch of different ways to do this, here are some different tutorials about painting hair;
    Facial Hair using a grass brush approach
    Painting hair, and other facial features, GREAT tutorials!
    Ben’s Low Poly Hair tutorial More than likely this will help you the most with what you are doing =)

    As you look at hair ref, see how the hair roots grow out of the head. Not in a straight line but often scattered along a set path around the face. Take notice of which ways the hairs grow out and back, or up and off to the side. Think of ways you can nail this down with the tools at hand. It’s a good habit to get into as you look at the world around you and ref, to think how would that be made in 3D? Could I make that hairdo with 5 opacity planes or do I have to use 70? Hair is also semi translucent and gives different tonal color depths as it lays on each other. It also has a shine or specularity to it that reacts to light. To some degree you want to fake this. Even if you are using a spec map you don’t want to try and have it do all of the work on its own, it will look off, horribly off.
    - I would suggest painting hair on the scalp of the character and place planes where you need them instead of laying hair geometry over the head geometry. You're doubling up on geometry when you don't need to. It can also cause Z-buffer flickering problems on some hardware when geometry is that close.
    - You might want to think of a restrained hair style, like a bun, an up-do or a ponytail. Hanging hair is hard to do, doesn't look realistic because it almost never is rigged to move and often clips into things like weapons and inventory that is carried on the back.
    - The nose is pretty wide and bulbous, its closer to a dumpy male nose than a cute perky hot chicks nose.

    Missing parts?
    - Does she have ears? What effect would they have on the hair? If the hair is that straight would the start to poke thru? Could you maybe tuck the hair behind the ears to restrain it, If the hair is restrained the player will not expect it to move around when the character move around anything you can do to make your models easier to work with and make animation easier is a plus in my book. There are plenty of restrained hair styles out there to keep things interesting and sexy.
    - Toes, I’m not saying everyone needs to start modeling toes, but they are separate digits that are often pressed together. You need to treat them as such. Flipper feet are ok just like flipper hands as long as you can “fake” each toe.

    The texture
    - It needs help. 90% of it looks like you used the paint bucket after picking a flesh color. Skin is more than R:225 G:200 B:190.
    There are more tones and subtle skin changes on the human body than what you are showing. Read up on skin, its pretty freaky stuff. It has a translucency to it. If you look at it when its just a few layers, its like wax paper, but stacked up it starts to become more opaque. What does this mean for you? Skin is showing what is under it and flowing thru it, at different opacity settings. You have to think about how much blood an area gets, what’s under the skin, how thick the skin is and that’s all before you take into consideration health, race, age and exposure to the sun, mood and even body hair. As you mull over skin and what it should look like, check what you are pondering against many a reference, don’t always trust what you think, instead trust what you see. You either photo sourced a few areas like the knees or started to think about this stuff, if you photo sourced look at it on the texture sheet against a flesh background color, what colors are used and how do the work together.



  • MAUL0r
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    MAUL0r polycounter lvl 18
  • moose
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    moose polycount sponsor
    [ QUOTE ]
    Re: Character: Violet (nudity)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That didn't tell you something?
  • conte
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    conte polycounter lvl 18
  • Needles
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    Needles polycounter lvl 19
    looks like a blowup doll <_<
  • ElysiumGX
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    ElysiumGX polycounter lvl 18
    Vig wrote you a book.

    You'll be tested on it later. laugh.gif
  • ebagg
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    ebagg polycounter lvl 17
    Holy shit Vig! DAYAMN!
  • Joao Sapiro
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    Joao Sapiro sublime tool
    hly smokes !1 but yeah read what vig said .
  • cyborgkatana
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    11. Ignored critique.
  • Mark Dygert
    [ QUOTE ]
    11. Ignored critique.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    That's because I had diarrhea of the keyboard and physically hurts most people to read that much text =/
  • Wendy de Boer
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    Wendy de Boer interpolator
    Much improved over the first version, but she still looks far from attractive.

    I'd make her whole lower body a good deal bigger, especially lengthen her legs and waist a lot. I'd make the calves a bit bigger and curvier to match her thighs more. The toes need to be more streamlined.

    The breasts look very tacked on. They should be more of a teardrop shape rather than a melon shape. There should be no crease at the top of the breast, only a gentle curve. Also, they should flow into the shoulder muscle.

    As said before, the nipples should be tan or a pinkish tan, definitely not the orange you have here. Also, you really, really need to fix the distortion there.

    I also think she needs some subtle muscle definition in her arms, shoulders, neck and hips. Don't forget the collar bones!

    Her hands need to be a lot more elegant and defined. She's missing the mouse of her hand and the knuckle area needs to come out more. The fingers should be longer and thinner.

    Too much of her forehead is showing still. I'd add another hair plane for a sideswept bang. You should angle it in such a way that you can't peek between the hair and the skull, because that really ruins the illusion of full hair. Also, try to paint in some subtle waves and variations in the hair. Use your alpha channel to make the ends of her hair look really jagged. Just subtly fading it out isn't enough. Also, I'd curve the ends of her hair inwards a bit. That would make the hair look more natural and not so poker-straight.

    As for the face, the heavy shadow of the brow near the bridge of the nose looks very unfeminine. Try to smooth that area out a bit. Lift her eyebrows up a bit, because they make her look old and worn out.

    I'd add a much darker edge around the top of the eye, and reduce the darkness under the eye. If you put a highlight just below her eyebrow, it will really open up her eyes and make her look pretty. (In real life this effect is done with make-up, you'll often see it in fashion mags.)

    Because the upper lip is angled downwards, it will be in shadow most of the time. So, I'd remove the highlights from the upper lip and make it a bit darker. The lower lip usually catches a lot of light, though, so you can put some strong highlights there (especially since she seems to be wearing lipgloss).

    I'd make the nose slightly less long and more upturned for a cuter look.

    Lastly, iron out those folds running from the sides of the nose towards her jawline. It makes her look jowly and old.

    To make things a bit clearer, I did a paintover to illustrate my points:
    violet_example.jpg

    Hope it helps... sorry if I sounded too harsh. poly137.gif
  • kongni
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    kongni polycounter lvl 17
    Vig and DemonPrincess - Those were some friggin' THOUROUGH crits. Big ups to both of ya.

    cyborgkatana- take their advice! smile.gif
  • cyborgkatana
  • low odor
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    low odor polycounter lvl 17
    vast improvement...keep working on it
  • Matabus
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    Matabus polycounter lvl 19
    Man, you HAVE to fix those tangerine nipples. Seriously ... nipples do NOT look like that and DemonPrincess gave you a good paintover to work off of.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Some awesome crits and tips in here. Focus more on the model before getting into the texture. You will have to reunwrap this before you texture it anyway. The model still needs a lot of work and from your wires you have a lot of wasted pollies. Have a look at the tutos that have been posted arround here.

    Keep at it
  • Tully
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    Tully polycounter lvl 18
    I agree with the other critiques made here, for sure! Bright orange nipples = ugh. I've also done a paintover... Demon Princess's has a lot of great points in it, but I wanted to elaborate a bit more.

    cyborgkatanapo.jpg

    - Shorter legs in proportion to the torso (those are freaky long)
    - The breasts are attached to the pectoral muscle.. they flow and bulge out from it--they are not tacked on like demon princess said. I would also tend to make them somewhat smaller for someone this size.
    - Larger head in proportion to the body. People's head sizes vary much less than their body sizes, so a smaller looking head usually equals a bigger person. Most people don't find giganto-women terribly attractive, and as you seem to be going for a sexy look here, a larger head would help.
    -Anatomy! Women have muscles, bones and fat... they're arranged in a specific manner. The torso is a particularly tricky area to learn since it's difficult to seperate it into various parts, but it's best to read up.

    Anyway, happy working smile.gif Hope that's helpful.
  • Mark Dygert
    please spend 10 tri's and make her thumbs look NOT like can openers. Besides the nipple color its looking much much MUCH better. Nice work!
  • cyborgkatana
  • stoofoo
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    stoofoo polycounter lvl 18
  • Jarrod1937
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    Jarrod1937 polycounter lvl 15
    getting better but can still be greatly improved... and is not worth even close to $70 in its current state imho. stop being greedy and continue improving the model.. ;-)
  • EarthQuake
    i'll give you about...... tree fidy.
  • Moz
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    Moz polycounter lvl 18
  • Empty
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    Empty polycounter lvl 18
    So does anyone actually buy models off of turbosquid... I just did a quick browse through and there really is not anything there that is any good, definately nothing I would ever consider buying...I am all ears if anyone wants to share?

    I havent checked this thread in a while but it looks like your comming along. The texture/model anatomy still needs work.

    If you polish up this model a bit more your could probably bump up the price to at least $500, maybe even $1000.
  • Dr_Graevling
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    Dr_Graevling polycounter lvl 11
    There's been some improvement indeed, but... I agree that the character needs a couple more passes. Work more on that anatomy. Make her interesting, add some shape and form to her, especially the legs. And the hair... Please don't leave the hair like that.
    And get rid of that horribly obvious mirrored texture... those spots on her stomach above the navel make my eyes twitch.
  • gameready
    I agree its not worth $70. She looks a bit crosseyed. Definately needs work on the proportions.

    On a side note, I have put things up on TurboSquid and I've sold $300 worth of models in the past 6 months...oh, wait a second, no $150 worth, because TurboSquidA$$ takes HALF, thats horrible. Thats why I started Game-Ready.com for me and other artists. But I won't get into that here.

    keep fixin your chick man! its getting better.
  • kukk
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    kukk polycounter lvl 17
    Oh, btw, why don't you make the butt'cheeks with different smoothing groups?
  • Rhinokey
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    Rhinokey polycounter lvl 18
    people do buy on turbosquid,, tho the problem is,, they usualy buy boring stuff. and the place is so saturated with models, its really hard to stand out. also theres a lot of free models up, so makes it hard to get any money out of the site. i was considering messing with turbosquid, but seems like more work than money. is there a way to see how many downloads the models have on there? would be nice to research what is selling
  • hawken
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    hawken polycounter lvl 19
    for $70 one can buy full packs of lifelike models for poser 6, complete with tons of clothing and variations.

    As jarrod says, stop being greedy and continue improving the model.

    BTW those tan lines look like seams at first glance, also why is the un-tanned area on her back DARKER than her tanned arms??
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Its all well and good to want to make money off your models but one generaly waits until your skills warrant a price tag. Keep at it but I honestly doubt anyone would purchase your model as is. For $100 on turbosquid you can get fully rigged models with accesories. Heres one of my models thats still a WIP, I wouldn't ask $50 for it unrigged and relying on an sss skin shader. You see, once you have been creating 3d art for a while you will realise that knocking out a quick human body and head can take you all of a few hours. The hard part is making it unique, the textures, accessories etc. Don't be discouraged, thats just how it is.

    The sss skin shader is for lifelike renders, its absolutely useless otherwise. You need to have diffuse/spec/normal maps to get a similar effect outside of a render.
  • dejawolf
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    dejawolf polycounter lvl 18
    i think generic environment stuff is mostly sought after for games. architectural modelers might be interested in higher quality furniture and such too. lamps chairs and such i'd believe.
    and generic people models.
  • frettchen
    I paid for a few models (well, more like rigs really) from turbosquid years back when I first started learning to animate as I didnt realise you could download perfectly fine rigs for animating *slaps head*

    When I say pay for them, I think the most expensive one was about $5, and was a fairly nice rig (just primitives skinned to the skeleton, but really nice controls)... helped me out a hell of a lot learning to animate
  • kukk
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    kukk polycounter lvl 17
    Well... it's still an naked chick, I suppose there are some dorks who'd pay for that...
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