ps2 games on ps3
grand marshal polycounter
I didn't find much information on this subject so far except reports that some ps1 and ps2 games show glitches, hence here is a question:
How do ps1 and ps2 games run on a ps3 system? Can you play them in HD, or at least get them to look sharp on a HDTV or a LCD monitor?
I play my ps2 hooked to my workstation's Dell LCD and it looks like a real mess, most likely because of the RCA connection. My secret hope is to be finally able to see sharp, individual pixels instead of that melted blurry look one day! I just got a component cable and will try it on the family TV over the weekend but for some reason I feel like it will be a very minor improvement in sharpness.
Also, is framerate improved when playing a ps2 game o the ps3? I was thinking how awesome SOTC would be if the framerate stopped changing from 15 to 30/60 fps...
Thanks if you can clear this up!
How do ps1 and ps2 games run on a ps3 system? Can you play them in HD, or at least get them to look sharp on a HDTV or a LCD monitor?
I play my ps2 hooked to my workstation's Dell LCD and it looks like a real mess, most likely because of the RCA connection. My secret hope is to be finally able to see sharp, individual pixels instead of that melted blurry look one day! I just got a component cable and will try it on the family TV over the weekend but for some reason I feel like it will be a very minor improvement in sharpness.
Also, is framerate improved when playing a ps2 game o the ps3? I was thinking how awesome SOTC would be if the framerate stopped changing from 15 to 30/60 fps...
Thanks if you can clear this up!
Replies
LCD/Plasma TV will always display games kind of blurry, unless the game supports HD and you have the proper cables.
I doubt framrates will improve, but I could be wrong. I don't see why the chips can't be altered to take advantage of the extra ram the PS3 has. Load times will be faster, though.
I've had almost every single PS2 game glitch on the PS3. Some are even unplayable. It's very buggy at the moment. The game still displays in its native resolution, which is usually 480p.
For fixed-resolution displays like LCD, Plasma, and most of the newer projection screens, this is a pretty big issue. Whenever you feed one of those screens a signal that isn't in their native resolution, you're going to experience blurring, and occasionally even lag with the audio. A fixed-resolution display can only dispaly images at its native resolution. Feed it a different resolution, and it will scale the signal up or down itself, usually resulting in blurring and a general loss of quality.
The ideal solution is for the game system in question to process the rendered image, and convert it to whatever resolution is desired before transmitting it to the screen. For most PC games, this is a very simple process, and has been an industry standard for years. Just go into the system settings, and pick whatever resolution matches the native resolution of your screen. Problem solved. Game consoles are not so friendly. For whatever reason, Sony didn't see fit to include signal scaling or processing with the PS3. Given the obvious power of the system, they really should have. Especially for PS1 and PS2 emulation. Those games are never rendered higher than 480p to begin with. Scaling them up to 720p or 1080i should be a walk in the park for a beefy console like the PS3.
Hopefully, this feature will be added in a later patch update.
you just can't have the ps3 actually render the frames at a higher resolution since there are too many problems that would result, namely problems for the not tech savy. with an emu people are knowing and willing to alter a lot of settings for each game... i'd say 60% or possibly more of their market would not be tech savy enough to do this, so the solution? have a fixed setting that allows the ps2 games to run like they were designed for in the original console. this eliminates most if not all problems that would result otherwise.
and a good external (or good built in internal if you don't go cheap on your display device) upscaler can produce a very good image, same with downscaling. however because of how upscaling works (looks at one pixel and tries create groups of pixels that would produce that same color as that pixel) and how downscaling works (averages groups of pixels into one color for one pixel), you're never going to get the best quality picture as when feeding it its native res.
although the only thing i don't understand is why don't they render the ps2 games out as 480p(i) and then have the ps3 upscaler upscale it to 720p(i) or 1080p(i)? perhaps they felt it would be better for your display to do the upscaling? or perhaps its an odd driver bug and they'll fix ti soon. we'll see i guess.
eitherway you'll get the same result when they allow the ps3 to upscale the games after they have been rendered as 480p(i) as what you get now if your display is good at upscaling.
That's why it is so important for home consoles to scale the signal they send BEFORE it is sent to the screen. The 360 and PS3 are very powerful computers, designed from the bottom up to handle advanced rendering. The Cell chip in particular was designed with real-time processing of video in mind, and ought to be ideal for very fast video scaling at higher resolutions. If any scaling is to occur, it ought to happen on the consoles, not on the TV. Heck, the 360 allows for backwards compatible XBox games to actually be rendered at higher resolutions than originally intended, complete with anti-aliasing that wasn't possible on the original console. If Microsoft can add functionality like that, despite having a completely different GPU, surely Sony should be able to pull off the same, with all the advantages that the PS3 provides.
The backwards compatibility of the PS3 is there, but that's about it. There is still a lot more that could be done to improve it.
PS1 & PS2 games look and load just like they did on the PS2.
I actually elaborated on native device up and down scaling. TV sets do this by default. But that is the root of most of the issues people are having. Native-resolution screens don't have very good scaling. This is probably because the computers used to run them are as bare-bones as possible. (to cut down on production costs) That's why scaling up will result in noticeable pixelization on larger screens, and downscaling can result in noticeable audio lag. Relying on your TV for up and down scaling is a mistake, and always results in decreased performance and quality.
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wow, i can't believe you just said that...
what you say is true for fixed resolution displays that are CHEAP, but not ones where you put good money toward. i have played halo 2 on xbox at 480p (highest it allows) on a 150 inch screen, and since my lcd projector has good scaling capabilities (however its de-interlacer sucks) the image it produces is very very good. there is no difference from having the game console upscale and having your tv upscale if they both have good upscalers. what you say is true, but it is limited to cheap displays and not all.
Projectors are a mixed bag, because they are generally designed for business presentations, and almost always feature computer connections. (VGA and DVI) They actually have to include extra hardware and processing for scaling, since it is expected that they will be used in conjunction with multiple computer systems. It's also worth noting that they are generally more expensive because of this.
And let's not tip-toe around the issue at hand. Providing efficient scaling via a console designed for such functions is obvious. There are an enormous amount of different screens available on the market, each with different abilities and resolutions. A major hardware manufacturer like Sony can't assume that everyone is going to go out and throw a lot of money at a brand-spanking new high-end screen or projector that will cover their video scaling for them. There is no excuse for scaling issues on a console like the PS3. The PS3 should be able to render and scale its output to whatever standard resolution the user desires. At the moment, that is not the case, for PS2 games, or PS3 games.
I wasn't referring to projectors, just rear-projection screens. And throwing money at the issue in question won't fix it. It will help, but not nearly enough, and not in the right way. I've seen many extremely high-end screens choke when it comes to scaling. And even with the best screens, allowing the screen itself to handle the scaling is always a mistake. Eventually, manufacturers might develop screens specifically designed to handle this issue. (with processing specifically set aside for scaling) But for now they don't seem to consider it to be very important. Fixed-resolution screens are currently being designed to display an image at a given resolution, not convert that image effectively. A home console with ridiculous amounts of processing power and a dedicated GPU is going to be able to do a better job of scaling than anything built into an expensive screen. The console is designed from the ground up to render and process video. The screen is designed to display video at a set resolution. Each should do the job they were designed for, and only that job. That way their respective duties will be performed with the utmost efficiency.
Projectors are a mixed bag, because they are generally designed for business presentations, and almost always feature computer connections. (VGA and DVI) They actually have to include extra hardware and processing for scaling, since it is expected that they will be used in conjunction with multiple computer systems. It's also worth noting that they are generally more expensive because of this.
And let's not tip-toe around the issue at hand. Providing efficient scaling via a console designed for such functions is obvious. There are an enormous amount of different screens available on the market, each with different abilities and resolutions. A major hardware manufacturer like Sony can't assume that everyone is going to go out and throw a lot of money at a brand-spanking new high-end screen or projector that will cover their video scaling for them. There is no excuse for scaling issues on a console like the PS3. The PS3 should be able to render and scale its output to whatever standard resolution the user desires. At the moment, that is not the case, for PS2 games, or PS3 games.
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i wasn't aware of this issue with rear projection tv's, tyhe last rear projection i had was standard def, so i'll take your word for it.
"Projectors are a mixed bag, because they are generally designed for business presentations" boy are you missing out on an entirely different projector world. now a days there are home theater projectors with very good contrast ratios, shadow detail, brilliant colors...etc, along with component, composite, s-video, hdmi, and dvi connection types meant for home theater use and computer use (like some hd tv's).
and i do agree the ps3 should do the scaling instead of the tv, i was never disagreeing with that, but was simply explaing why it might be difficult for the ps3 to actually render at high resolutions without further problems. xbox 360 probably has unique settings for each game so that this is possible, perhaps sony just thinks the effort isn't worth it? however , i too, was wondering why they don't just render it out at 480 res and then upscale it from there within the ps3.
Too bad there is no obvious performance boost for ps2 games according to what you guys saw.
I just hope that the huge amount of ps2 games available will push sony into patching this in the future... I started testing 480p-friendly titles and progressive scan alone is already a clear improvement. Black, Soulcalibur2 and SOTC look sexycrisp!
It would be nice for the ps3 firmware to get an update forcing 480p for all ps2 games, even those with no native support for it. Kinda like what the HDTV Xploder does - anyone tried it?
If it's the latter, they're paying you too much!
Pea! I don't have a ps3, I'm just being curious! Couldn't be a borrowed one from the office either, I'm not there anymore you fool!
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I found this comparison video of PS2 games running on a PS3 and running on a PS2.
ok...that is hideous
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I've seen it with my own eyes. Like I said, most of the games I played glitched so badly that they were unplayable. The few that did work looked like shit.
I'm pretty sure this is an issue when using HDMI cables only.
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not from what i've heard at a few places, people have been complaining that it looks that way on all of the cables they've tried.
I'm pretty sure this is an issue when using HDMI cables only.
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it makes no difference what cables you use.. they all look like ass. ive seen it.