Motor E3 2005 vs Now ? ..wtf ?
polycounter lvl 17
I was playing the Motor Storm demo at walmart and thinking to myself wtf ? Is this the game I seen that was shown at E3 2005 which blew me away ? Then seen gametrailers posted and then and now comparison between the 2
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=15401&type=mov&pl=game
Higher res Motor Sport E3 2005 video
http://www.gamersreports.com/video.php?id=1134323545&g=367&ex=avi
From 2005 till now the game has lost at least 5 times the resolution . Sad thing is the CEO of revolution studios said
the E3 2005 footage was realtime ! How do the Sony management sleep at night ? Hmm well maybe Playstation 4 ?
2005
http://www.gamersreports.com/mediabrowser_image.php?group=288&date=1134108595
2006
http://www.gamersreports.com/mediabrowser_image.php?group=1059&date=1152203041
The game still looks really good it's just disappointing to see such an awesome demo which was pimped as real time lose so much quality. It was fun to play however and watching stuff blow up was pretty awesome. Played it for about an hour till some little brat started whinning to his mom
http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=15401&type=mov&pl=game
Higher res Motor Sport E3 2005 video
http://www.gamersreports.com/video.php?id=1134323545&g=367&ex=avi
From 2005 till now the game has lost at least 5 times the resolution . Sad thing is the CEO of revolution studios said
the E3 2005 footage was realtime ! How do the Sony management sleep at night ? Hmm well maybe Playstation 4 ?
2005
http://www.gamersreports.com/mediabrowser_image.php?group=288&date=1134108595
2006
http://www.gamersreports.com/mediabrowser_image.php?group=1059&date=1152203041
The game still looks really good it's just disappointing to see such an awesome demo which was pimped as real time lose so much quality. It was fun to play however and watching stuff blow up was pretty awesome. Played it for about an hour till some little brat started whinning to his mom
Replies
Even the best looking (released) game I've seen, Gears of War, is a far cry from all of the media we were shown, prior to release. Hell, even some of the vids shown at E3 showcased real-time shadows on everything, and had much higher res textures. Granted, the end result is still amazing. But it's 1/5th the visual quality than it was.
Sony in particular, is notoriously bad at preview movies. They show CG and claim it's real time, betting their granny's life on it, if given the opportunity.
Motorstorm was genuinely about the only thing I was interested in for the PS3. Last sunday I'm playing the thing in Best Buy, and guess what thought pops into my head 'OMG, Sony you absolute lying cheating motherfuckers, you've done it again' and some dude behind me was saying the same thing as he watched me play. So yeah, it wasn't horrible, but the framerate was sucky, the ragdoll sucked massive sweaty balls and all in all it was a far, distant cry from those stunning 'in game' movies with fluid dynamic mud particles that I saw on Gamespot a year ago.
I am *really* sick of the Sonys bs and have absolutely zero interest in the PS3.
yeah ps3 sucks, resistance fall of man sucks, and looks like utter crap. I'm pretty sure that whoever sticks with the ps3 will eventually learn to make games look good, but by that time the next xbox is going to be out which will be even better than the 360... which even now is a better platform than the ps3. motorstorm was pretty fun though, but not a console seller type game, if it looked like the movie... oh man i'd be all ABOUT that shit
[/ QUOTE ]
I think Sqaure will make some nice looking games for it & Devil May Cry 4 will be worth the buy but other then that it's just a guess . You know ive looked at that E3 footage a few times and im not even sure a Nvidia 8800 could pull that off and PS3 supposedly has a GPU more along the lines of a G force 6 card . Im thinking the graphics in that E3 2005 demo is more along maybe even the next-gen probably series 9 cards from Nvidia I mean those particle effects and destructable models at that level will take some serious brute force computation.
To sum it up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRVAVdF8HLc
But I was less than amazed by the latest ET:Quakewars video either, so this phenomenon seems to hit PCs now too, which really arn't ram limited at all
I mean besides the videos are CLEARLY rendered, and no way real-time, couldnt the studios just invest a bit more money in lets say knowledge about how the next gen stuff is to be done really?
But, I have to say I really do enjoy previz / target render whatevers like a the new star wars games videos. But it was labeld as previz...
I for one think one of the big reasons why the graphics had to be downscaled so much is the insanely low amount of ram in the PS3
But I was less than amazed by the latest ET:Quakewars video either, so this phenomenon seems to hit PCs now too, which really arn't ram limited at all
[/ QUOTE ]
er, eh? 'downscaled'?! Dont start me off again! The original motorstorm footage featured non baked GI lighting, fluid dynamic mud, the Killzone stuff featured GI lighting, procedural hair, and both of them were visually claiming to anyone who knew what they were looking at that realtime subdivision was here. There isn't a polygonal edge in sight in either video!
And Im really not sure what you mean about ET: Quakewars. Show me the footage that clearly was a pre-rendered movie being presented as in-game? That's what were talking about here: Sony trying to totally bs people. Why aren't there laws about this crap? In what other industry could you get away with lying like that? If a car manufacturer said an upcoming model looked like a Ferrari and did 200mph in a promotional campaign, and upon its release it managed 100mph and looked like an Acura, there would be an uproar. Sorry, but to me this is a little more drastic than a 'lack of ram'. I really want to see an end of this kind of nonsense and Sony actually having to stand up and be accountable in public.
*edit* eld, that video rocks my fucking face off, thanks.
I was talking about a general trend also visible on the Xbox360 where they obviously start of with great, but reasonable in game work and then scale it down a lot on the final hardware (see that Unreal3 stuff... I think it is called "gears of war" or something like that).
And the same seems to happen to ET:Quakewars right now, but can not be explained by the lack of ram in those shitty consoles
Edit: Yeah you are right, I kind of missed what was really talked about in this thread
[ QUOTE ]
I for one think one of the big reasons why the graphics had to be downscaled so much is the insanely low amount of ram in the PS3
But I was less than amazed by the latest ET:Quakewars video either, so this phenomenon seems to hit PCs now too, which really arn't ram limited at all
[/ QUOTE ]
er, eh? 'downscaled'?! Dont start me off again! The original motorstorm footage featured non baked GI lighting, fluid dynamic mud, the Killzone stuff featured GI lighting, procedural hair, and both of them were visually claiming to anyone who knew what they were looking at that realtime subdivision was here. There isn't a polygonal edge in sight in either video!
And Im really not sure what you mean about ET: Quakewars. Show me the footage that clearly was a pre-rendered movie being presented as in-game? That's what were talking about here: Sony trying to totally bs people. Why aren't there laws about this crap? In what other industry could you get away with lying like that? If a car manufacturer said an upcoming model looked like a Ferrari and did 200mph in a promotional campaign, and upon its release it managed 100mph and looked like an Acura, there would be an uproar. Sorry, but to me this is a little more drastic than a 'lack of ram'. I really want to see an end of this kind of nonsense and Sony actually having to stand up and be accountable in public.
*edit* eld, that video rocks my fucking face off, thanks.
[/ QUOTE ]
it's a lot to do with immaturity of the industry and consequently the consumer. Because noone takes it seriously we end up with box full of cliches, uninspired design, lies and over promises.
This reminds me of the Call of Duty 2 televised trailer, which featured a fully prerendered action scene (mind you it looked rather weak as cinematics go).
I thought to myself "why? why do they even bother? A. they are misrepresenting the actual product and B. they are not giving the artists proper justice because in fact COD2 was a game with some pleasing visuals ...
They still think they can get away with it because they are not going to face any repercussions for misleading the consumer.
Anyways I hope something comes from all of this, I know I wont be buying a PS3 I just hope someone in the industry can come out and let the less educated consumers know theyre full of shit
My 2c
They still think they can get away with it because they are not going to face any repercussions for misleading the consumer.
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're probably right Fuse, but without any legislation or accountability, where are the lies going to end? It's like anything goes out there. I can't think of another industry where such blatant mistruths are told about a product that go completely unchallenged. I suppose drugs and other consumables where peoples health might be affected, but usually there is accountability when the product doesn't do what expected.
At least in the case of the CoD TV ad, after enough consumer complaints to the advertising standards authority, it got pulled in the UK for reasons of product misrepresentation, so that made me very happy, but I personally want to see this kind of legislation go much much further.
It irks me so much that Sony get away with it. Seeing that wanker Sony exec in the vid that eld posted protecting his own personal gains by blatantly flat out unashamedly LYING that that movie is realtime gameplay running on a devkit? Grrr, it makes me so bloody mad. Just incase that isn't obvious
Once Killzone2 is out, I want someone to interview the fucker again and play back the tape to him live on camera. I want to see him squirm and look like a lying cheating douchebag. I guess a lot of my rage stems from an intense dislike of all the leeching suits in this bizz. I've met more Jack Trettons than I care to remember; people in this industry for all the wrong reasons. He clearly doesn't even know what he's talking about. 'the devkits are so intuitive'? What the fuck does that even *mean* ? 'I'll bet the dev team themselves were extremely uncomfortable about representing their non existent game in that fashion.
Just like the NFL pics shown above : the one with snowflakes really looks like a internal previs shot, but since it has been widespread and sold as an ingame screen the final product seems awful in comparaison.
I'd be very mad at whoever claimed it was ingame if I were part of the team working on that title. Because every review might start with something like 'The game looks far from what was shown at E3 200X'.
My only hope is that the kind of lies we are now seeing everywhere will stop as soon as more than a handful of ps3 games are released. But by then the system will be sold... Sony wins again!
It's a shame that Sony's lies actually stains the rep of some talented studios.
On a side note : it would be quite hilarious if the killzone2 vid we all hate end up as the introduction cinematic of the game :P But I hear that a new one is being worked on?
I'd like to see how Crysis holds up. It looked absolutely stellar playing realtime (10fps or so) at E3 but no one has a PC that can do that at home.
I wondering why they spend so much money into making that "pseudo previz we say its real but its clearly not" videos?
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a dodgy practice to pass it off as realtime, i interviewed at a production house a while back that made intro cinematics and they were increasingly making these kind of fakey cakey gameplay movies, often at a very early stage of the actual game development.
The chap who interviewed me suggested they had several uses; as a design tool for the devs, 'total game overview' for publishers as well as a promo for public consumption. The main rationale was that they're a comparatively cost effective way of gauging whether a game is likely to be popular before sinking thousands or even millions into next gen development.
I saw some very convincing 'next gen games' and I don't trust trailers no more
The main rationale was that they're a comparatively cost effective way of gauging whether a game is likely to be popular before sinking thousands or even millions into next gen development.
[/ QUOTE ]
I never even considered that, good point. None the less they could have done it without global illumination, subdivisions etc. and show something that looks even remotely like the end product, motherfuckers.
But somewhere along the way Sony exec decided in their infinite wisdom that they would use them to blatantly lie and make outrageous claims about their products capabilities, and that, in my view, is completely lacking in integrity, damaging to the developer and downright dishonest.
And if there is a law for publicited products to be truth in the practicall way they are advertised ( sectio ajdasjd of the cdjfdsjf civil code ) why not the same for games ? if company A is selling product B claiming that it IS REALLY C , and the end product is E , theres something wrong here...
Still the promo images are awesome, the trailer for halo , killzone , etc , those were both badass , but claiming that they were what we were going to play....Even kojima on his mgs4 had to drastically change how it looks...wii come to papa !
With killzone especially, the devs are probably between a rock and a hardplace to try to deliver a fraction of what was promised by a few moronic comments by Sony. With production costs and dev cycles so high who needs another set of headaches ?
thats the key word daz : dishonesty , something that makes me icky when buying something.
[/ QUOTE ]
i am use to it by now, i mean come on, every company lies about its products so you will buy it. i have never tapped into the rockies by opening a coors light and was suddenly surrounded my hot girls in bikinis. axe body spray does not make girls instantly want to bone you.. cambells soup is not mmm mmm good, it all taste like crap. air jordans dont make you any better at basketball. shit even all detergent doesnt really get out those rust stains. bounty paper towels are not really that absorbent...we are lied to about everything that is for sale. games are no different, i remember old nes tv ads with the kid saying "wow! realistic graphics!!" i mean it was 8 bit for christ sake. this is just how the world works, nothing new or surprising about all the hype and lies to me, really i am past it even bothering me.
I think the reason its so utterly irking to me, is that as a member of a dev. team at a very large company for so long, I have been burnt oh so many many times by some clueless idiot exec who didn't know what the fuck he was talking about making ridiculous impossible to keep promises. No more!
Anyways Arsh in this case it is a little bit different. Especially after seeing that video of the Sony Exec straight up lying ! I mean maybe I don't see a axe corporate exec saying in interviews " ohh yeah man this stuff makes chicks go wild im getting laid 300% more since I started using it " or like Micheal Jordan saying " yeah buy my shoes hell it makes my cousin jump 3 feet higher " .
That's the kind BS that was slinged around . Advertising is one thing like a PS3 isn't going to make a rubix cube blow up and paint a room we know that, but when a Sony company rep says that Killzone trailer is real-time or the Motor Cross target is what the PS3 will deliver it's a whole other kind of lie in my opinion.
and daz i know your pain, but at the same time, that same clueless idiot exec who didn't know what the fuck he was talking about, also dosent know the difference between what we were promised to get and what we are getting now.
I'm very un-happy that you guys get wii sports for free... it's $40 here
I enjoy watching people spend an unreasonable amount of money on lies. Games are games, as they should be. Consumers should stop falling for the "cinematic quality" bullshot. Support the companies that deliver what they promise.
[/ QUOTE ]
well in the UK it's illegal to advertise games with pre-renders on TV.
Put that in your crack pipe
We know they are usually faked - they might start off as a screen grab, but then they always end getting a little bit of photoshop treatment.
And are those any different from the touch ups done to any model/actress/actor photograph for a magazine/poster?
Ok, what about the screenshots? The "real" and the "in game" shots?
We know they are usually faked - they might start off as a screen grab, but then they always end getting a little bit of photoshop treatment.
And are those any different from the touch ups done to any model/actress/actor photograph for a magazine/poster?
[/ QUOTE ]
I guess that depends on whether or not I'm going to be having sex with those models. I don't look at screenshots just because they're pretty; I look at screenshots because I plan on someday playing that particular video game.
But that sort of thing doesn't bother so me much -- screenshot touch-ups and early game footage that is later scaled down is expected. What does bother me is what Sony has been doing for years now. I think Asmuel was spot on when he said they're pioneers of bullshit. They've been selling blatant lies since the PS2 launch. I remember a few months before the PS2 launch, the CEO of Sony told Newsweek that the PS2 used the "same interface" and same concept as seen in the movie "The Matrix." He said some bullshit about a cybercity and "jacking in" to the Matrix.
Talk about bringing bullshit to another level... it's like the guy challenged himself to come up with the most astronomically bullshit lie capable of being imagined by the human mind.
this kind of practice has been banned by the department for trade and industry (DTI) & Ofcom after numerous complaints over the years, Mostly about EA's medal of honor and BF1942 for miss-leading consumers.
to mind the only game to cause uproar from gamers was Killzone and now this Driving game, which doubles up as a handy coaster for your beverages.
lol
In other industries, you already have a shippable product and the success/failure of that product heavily relies on the marketing strategy employed.
In this industry though execs sell the public the idea first and deliver the product second, and somewhere in between the artists/designers have to live up to the false expectations.
When Mazda unveiled their sports car and subsequently launched it they promised something around 270 horsepower, but in reality only delivered around 230. The numbers are not important but what was important was that they admitted to their lie and gave the buyers a cash compensation or an option to give back the car for full reimbursement. That happened because simply, they lied and underdelivered.
Would sony give you a reimbursement for killzone2 if you went and showed them a clip of the exec bsing about the prerendered trailer? absolutely not. They got the word out, boosted the sales and cashed in.
Went by Target this morning when they opened...
They sold out of Wii in less than 10 minutes. Apparently some moms and grandmoms had been waiting outside since 4am this morning. I refuse to do that. My town isn't even more than 50k people strong. Guess I'll check BestBuy a little later. Oh...and I checked my online tracker site...and between the time the Wii sold at Target until about 10 minutes after I got home...an auction had already appeared. Buying systems to sell them at marked up prices to the guy who is standing behind you in line and won't be able to get a system is so lame. I hope their paypal gets locked.
what's the big deal with the PS3 now, is it somehow in fashion to constantly bash that "box to run games on"? boooooring.
As a piece of hardware, the PS3 falls technologically VASTLY short of Sonys claims from several years ago. It's got absolutely fuck all to do with 'fashion'. No, of course this isn't the first time it's happened, they were claiming Toy Story graphics for the PS2. But the fact that they consistently get away with lying about their tech specs year in year out is pretty fucking outrageous (to some). But clearly boring to others. As far as I'm concerned, the more publicity there is about exposing their bs the better.