Grad school online - yes, no, maybe?

fogmann · Oct 2006

So I'm thinking of getting game/new media related masters at some point in near future, and was wondering if anyone has done it through some of the online programs that are becoming available nowadays. I'd like to know if getting masters part time and working in industry full time (45 hour week) is an overkill or perhaps doable. If it is doable / recommended, I am open to any suggestions for good school that offers online degree program. I've looked at SCAD and Academy of Art in SF, but they seem like trade schools focused on practical stuff, while I think industry job would be good on advancing in that direction. Also, I think I've improved my skills much more in past year since I hang out at polycount, then for the entire time I've been in college, so that's why I'd prefer to get into a program that is more focused on research, and perhaps to be able to take some programming courses too. The European Graduate School seems like great opportunity to really broaden one's horizons and do some research, though it might be tough to get accepted there.

To clarify, I'm not much interested in getting a masters to become a teacher (although I would consider that too), but rather to be able to make a more valuable contribution to the world of video games, as I think it's the most powerful medium out there

And to get the most out of my life before I decide to have kids.

Any pointers are much appreciated

TomDunne · Oct 2006

This is just an opinion, but I wouldn't get any sort of creative degree via an online program. The most valuable aspect of getting an art or design degree is the critique process: in class, face-to-face and with your work on display along with everyone else's. You stand to learn so much more that way than you do learning in a vacuum, and any degree that doesn't provide that experience wouldn't be worth it (again, IMO).

fogmann · Oct 2006

It makes perfect sense, although from my experience I would say that it can easily be the opposite: I feel I've learned much more from the online critiques on these boards, then for the entire time I spent in classes. I think that for some reason people can be more honest and open to giving and receiving criticism when they don't face each other, because it all comes down to just typing, adding some thoughts later and generally not being that much concerned about hurting someone's feelings when giving harsh critique, as one might be when that person is right there, in the same room. It might be just me, though, since I wasn't very happy with what I took out of my undergraduate studies - so I feel I could use some more schooling

But as I said, technical/practical program might not necessarily be the right choice for me, so I would say that more theoretical/research based program could have less of critique process involved.

Ryno · Nov 2006

A master's degree will do almost nothing for you in the game industry. Within weeks, you will learn as much on the job as you would have after spending years in school. There are more good, knowledgeable artists in production than there are in a scholastic setting.

Personally, if someone advertises the whole master's degree thing to me, I assume that they are full of shit and question why they were busy doing school instead of production work. Maybe if you were changing careers and already had an undergrad degree, it might be worthwhile to get you going. But if you can get a production job, don't even bother with the masters.

If you really want to further your art knowledge, talk to co-workers at your game company. Get tips and have them review your work. Drop by some figure drawing sessions. Take the occasional class at the local community college. Buy some Gnomon DVDs, etc.

Paul Jaquays · Nov 2006

I would not pursue a game-related masters degree if you are already working in the industry and happy doing so.

If you have any interest in working as an educator (such as teaching at a game-related school some day), then the masters degree would put you ahead of the game when it comes to be considered for even an adjunct professor position. To be accredited, schools need a certain number of Master level and above instructors teaching in the program.

aesir · Nov 2006

I could see myself getting a masters degree if I wanted a nice steady teaching job somewhere, however, if teaching isnt your goal, I dont see the need to spend the time and money to do this. I can't really think of anything that graduate school would have you do that you can't do yourself.

As an amusing side note, on cgtalk a user named Jackdeth who owns his own vfx company said that he'd never want to hire someone with a master's degree cause its a waste of time to get one for our line of work, or something along those lines.

TomDunne · Nov 2006

It boggles my mind that I once was interested in a career in an industry in which my education might be held against me... Too much damned learning, it rots the brain.

Sage · Nov 2006

From talkings to professors, I have gathered that online degrees won't help you get an educator position because they are not respected. From talking to artist in the industry a Masters doesn't help you get in and doesn't mean much. But you mentioned that was not your interest anyway. I say if you have the money go for it, as in, if you won't mind spending the money and realize that you did not get much out of it. I think you are better off going to specialized seminars and such and focus on the aspects you want to learn. Finding learning material for advance level users I have found to be tough.

Alex

Paul Jaquays · Nov 2006

I've participated in searches for lecturers/professors at universities and heard the same thing about online degrees that Sage has. Whether they deserve it or not, onlne degrees are a strike against someone seeking a teaching career in higher education.

ChaosEidolon · Nov 2006

I currently work at SCAD's e-Learning department doing development on the online course materials, so i think i might be in a position to throw in on this.

Just to clarify, I'm not here to pitch anything. I do media design here and selling people on SCAD is not my buissiness or my interest. I did my undergrad here and most certainly had my gripes back then. I can only give you info on what the program is about here, so thats my angle.

As far as some of you have pointed out, online degree's arent often well respected because in most cases they're not held up to the same standards as "on ground" courses. At SCAD at least, you're getting the exact same degree as you would on ground. It looks no different from the one you would get if you moved to Savannah and did it here. ALL of the online courses also go through the same accrediting process and in many ways go through a more rigorous revision process since everything has be actually written down and QA'd instead of just letting the professor wing it.

As far as the Interactive/Game Design program is concerned, it is right now probably among the programs with the most effort put into it. When i was doing my UG, they were still formulating a good cirriculum, but the program has become significantly more streamlined in the past couple of years.
The courses, especially on the Grad level, are much more focussed on game and design theory, and weve got several great teachers here that are really pushing that.
To give you an example, one course currently in development is Game Design Criticism and Analysis by Prof. Brenda Brathwaite. Brenda is also very involved with the IGDA, often speaking at conferences and maintains her blog over on the IGDA website regarding sex in the industry (http://www.igda.org/sex/) She is, in my opinion, a person very committed to pushing the industry forward.

On the flip side, and probably the biggest concern, is that SCAD is quite expensive.
Also, if you expect to consistantly work 45hrs a week and still carry a full course load, well, speaking for myself i wouldnt want to take that on for the risk that i wouldnt have the time to get my money's worth out of it. The online courses here have just as much of a workload as the on ground courses. Some people can have more on their plate though, so that would be up to you to determine.
Finally as far as the online vs classroom experience is concerned, since the SCAD programs have to go through such a rigorous approval process, the course material is a little more like a rail for the teacher to teach on as opposed to the relatively free environment of the classroom, where you can break out the xbox to do a level design lecture if youre feeling spontaneous. This can be a good or a bad thing depending on the teacher, but i personally prefer to have the more engaging face to face experience, since thats my learning style (ie: a bit ADD =P)

Much longer schpiel than i meant to do, but i hope it helps. Please send me a PM if you have any questions or need an opinion on something in particular.

cheers,
Willem

fogmann · Nov 2006

Thanks for all the advice and info everyone. I still have to figure out what I'll do, but your info will be on my mind and certainly will help me decide what to do.

Perhaps a personal project could be just as rewarding as schoolwork, I would say. On one hand, there's something that really bugged me about my previous school, and I see it could happen in every other school: they made us take some intro classes that were in this long chain of prerequisites, and the first one could have been skipped if I've had any Quark experience (it was Intro to computer graphics that teaches Photoshop, Illustrator and Quark, so I knew about 90% of what was thought in class, and more that wasn't), and since I never used Quark before, I had to take the class and then virtually delayed my graduation for one semester. And it turned out I never had to use Quark again, and few semesters later, that course was taken out of the program for my major, since it's really for graphic designers. Now I always thought this could get really problematic when course credit costs two-three times as much as it for my undergraduate studies.

Also, thanks ChaosEidolon for the info on SCAD program, I'll contact you when I make up my mind, or have more question. Thanks!

Richard Kain · Nov 2006

Okay. I actually work at an on-line college. I spend all day producing Flash-based coursework for the official curriculum. That is my nine-to-five, that pays the bills. And we're actually considered one of the better general purpose on-line schools.

You DO NOT want an on-line degree. Period. On-line is not the way to go for serious learning. Well, paying for on-line education isn't, anyway. You can learn quite a bit from internet content and research. But just about all the good stuff is available for free. You would be better served by browsing these very boards and asking for help. There are a lot of polycounters who enjoy putting together tutorials.

On top of all that, there is the art aspect. Art is not something that you really learn through education. There are some fundamentals that can be taught, but again, most of those are readily available for free. The overwhelming majority of art education is hands-on. Practice. Getting your hands dirty and producing piece after piece. And game artists get hired on the strength of their portfolio, not their academics. If you have the skills, and the portfolio to showcase those skills, you will get hired. A master's degree, on-line or off, is not going to help you with that.

Even-higher education should be for different purposes. Teachers are expected to have Master's degrees. Master's degrees will help you break into management. (note: most game artists are not part of management) But Master's degrees are much more valuable in other subjects. If you wanted to teach, a Masters degree in Art History would be the way to go. (as opposed to general art, production art, or graphic design) If you wanted to get into Management, a Masters in Business would be better. The only case where a Master's degree would really help you get a job in games would be if you got a Master's in Computer Science. (Even-higher education goes a lot farther in highly technical fields, where greater knowledge and research actually counts for something)

Personally, I'm looking into technical degrees in Architecture / Visualization.

Grad school online - yes, no, maybe?

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