I took that updated skull into Zbrush and did a quick sculpt just to see how a normal map would look, and it I think it looks WAY better than it did. You have taught me a lot today spark, thanks alot man for taking the time to help me out. Everything you said makes perfect sense now that I tried everything out. Im excited now to keep working on this thing.
Hey Nate, glad I could help you out a little. It is hard to understand that sometimes reducing the geometry is better for normal maps:) You could still reduce the skull in some areas Nate, and keep the normal looking the same, a good trick to do, is make a copy of an object you are working on, and put a complete black material on it. Then slowly reduce the polys while keeping the silohette looking the same. I use this technique alot to see where I am wasting my poly count in areas that I do not see an effect on, then use those polys to go and help the silouhette:) It can be slow at first, but the more you do it the more it will become a habit, though it's becoming less important now a days with the higher budget, but why have something that is 10,000 poly's, when it looks the same at 5,000? (Also the lower it is, the less of a bitch it is to map, and work on:)) Again, I hope this helps you.
Hey thanks again Spark, all your tips have been extremely helpful.
I had to put the skeleton on hold though, Ive been working on this Cannon prop and just finished it. Its 800 tris with a 512 color, spec and normal map. Its due on Saturday so let me know if you think I should change anything.
Also, is there a way to show off viewport grabs better? For the top right viewport grab, all I have enabled is the "DX display of standard material". Is there other things I should do to make it look better in the viewport?
its nice and clean, but I would add a bit more detail to the diffuse. Its a tad bland. also, why do you have two wheel spots? seems like their so alike, you could just reuse the space.
Hey Nate, again no problem, glad I am helping you. As Oobersli stated, you are using valuable pixtel area for the same thing, such as having 2 wheels on your map, when they are the same thing. The cannon can be mirrored as you are mirroring your diffuse, if you do not want to mirror your cannon, then add detail to give reason for it taking up space on your maps. I think you need to vary your materials for your object, true they might be all made out of metal, but you have black metal to silver, rough metal or smooth metal so on. Maybe take the cannon itself, and darken it to a darker color almost black, making your eye pop to that area. Maybe take some more time to gather more reference, and build up your texture library to help you in future projects, as I can't stress enough to how helpfull having a good reference libray will be to you. Kepp up the good work.
I'm not sure why you didn't go with this material, I'm not feeling yours at all. These canon where often made of bronze you know. If you are going for rust look at this: http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/atolls/Atoll_Images/Ebon/Ebon_Cannon.jpg
Take a hard look at how the rust flakes, you can do this with your normalmap and the results would be much better than the noise you have right now. But if you keep the noise, try to scale it down and use it more on spots where the rust has formed.
You really, really, need some sort of indent or cradle for the bar extending from the barrel that is resting on the base of the cannon. I would remove these polys and quickly model it in. You can always normalmap these barrel and if you look at your reference it is not at all that big of an indent as you have made it.
Listen to Spark and oober about the uv, you can easily mirror the bottom parts of the cannon barrel (and the wheels) and no one will ever notice anything.
yeah man you gotta have the indents or this cannon is going to kill everyone behind it as well as in front of it. Also you should start to get in the habit of not using the nvidia filter so much. This thing could really look a lot better if you had modeled the high res version. The wheels wouldn't look so blocky, the edges of the metal wouldn't be so sharp looking. Just overall it would look much better.
yeah i've gotta agree with the uv space usage as well. Use only 1 set of wheels. and you may want to connect some verts on those wheels so they aren't just guessing where the edges are if this goes in engine and you can get a more determined polycount.
Now on your textures. The diffuse looks really bland to me. Just looking at the ref above I can see shades of blue, gray, purple, etc. Work that in. I know your spec map is different but work it in on your diffuse as well as some wear and tear and burn marks where they should be.
Hell if it was mine I'd put some notches in that were carved by the guys that shoot it. Kill count or something you know. Be creative
Well I had to move on from the cannon. Dont think Im ignoring any of your comments its just life is getting in the way and I havnt had time to go back and fix things. Your critiques are very valuable to me and I will be going back and reworking the cannon.
Heres what I turned in with a few minor changes, I added the slot that held the cannon in place and worked the texture some more.
And actually cubik this was my reference image.
and we were required to make the color scheme match this image which the teacher provided
But I agree about the textures, Im going to rework it completely when I finish this quarter with all of your suggestions.
Anyways I just finished my next project. There were alot errors on it that Uly pointed out. I tried to fix some major ones but please let me know what seriously needs to be fixed to be a convincing rifle.
Ok as far as the high poly goes it generally isn't high poly enough to get as much detail as you can from it. You are missing all kinds of detail in the high poly model that could have really pushed this to be a kick ass piece.
Examples.
-model the detail in the front grip. Results will be much cleaner and better than the photoshop filter.
-The edges of the magazine / clip on the high poly look way too rounded. They should be chamfered but it should be a crisp edge as well.
-Some details on the scope would be nice. knobs, buttons, rivets, etc.
As for the lowpoly. This is a weapon for an fps based game right?
What was the poly count given to you guys? 400 tris is crazy for an fps now. Guns and weapons are a huge part of the detail in the game in an fps since it can sometimes become the character.
How many smoothing groups did you have on the low poly? This can make a big difference when you do the normal map as well and how good it looks.
As for the textures. Right now they are rather blah. You can really use some different colors in there. Everything is the same color. Guns aren't like that unless they are painted to be that way for camo or special forces guys do it.
The grip is the same color as the barrel housing.
The scope should be a more shiny metal than the clip.
Just right now it's not doing anything for me texture wise.
Sorry to be so harsh but I know your work and you can make this better.
Replies
Alright Ill leave my thread alone now.
Edit:
Added an AO pass, I finally learned how to do it.
Spark
I had to put the skeleton on hold though, Ive been working on this Cannon prop and just finished it. Its 800 tris with a 512 color, spec and normal map. Its due on Saturday so let me know if you think I should change anything.
Also, is there a way to show off viewport grabs better? For the top right viewport grab, all I have enabled is the "DX display of standard material". Is there other things I should do to make it look better in the viewport?
Spark
http://www.people.exeter.ac.uk/nkjdatta/photos/abroad/macau2/cannon.jpg
I'm not sure why you didn't go with this material, I'm not feeling yours at all. These canon where often made of bronze you know. If you are going for rust look at this:
http://marshall.csu.edu.au/Marshalls/html/atolls/Atoll_Images/Ebon/Ebon_Cannon.jpg
Take a hard look at how the rust flakes, you can do this with your normalmap and the results would be much better than the noise you have right now. But if you keep the noise, try to scale it down and use it more on spots where the rust has formed.
You really, really, need some sort of indent or cradle for the bar extending from the barrel that is resting on the base of the cannon. I would remove these polys and quickly model it in. You can always normalmap these barrel and if you look at your reference it is not at all that big of an indent as you have made it.
Listen to Spark and oober about the uv, you can easily mirror the bottom parts of the cannon barrel (and the wheels) and no one will ever notice anything.
Try one of Ben Cloward shaders with some decent lightning. http://www.bencloward.com/resources_shaders.shtml
yeah i've gotta agree with the uv space usage as well. Use only 1 set of wheels. and you may want to connect some verts on those wheels so they aren't just guessing where the edges are if this goes in engine and you can get a more determined polycount.
Now on your textures. The diffuse looks really bland to me. Just looking at the ref above I can see shades of blue, gray, purple, etc. Work that in. I know your spec map is different but work it in on your diffuse as well as some wear and tear and burn marks where they should be.
Hell if it was mine I'd put some notches in that were carved by the guys that shoot it. Kill count or something you know. Be creative
Heres what I turned in with a few minor changes, I added the slot that held the cannon in place and worked the texture some more.
And actually cubik this was my reference image.
and we were required to make the color scheme match this image which the teacher provided
But I agree about the textures, Im going to rework it completely when I finish this quarter with all of your suggestions.
Anyways I just finished my next project. There were alot errors on it that Uly pointed out. I tried to fix some major ones but please let me know what seriously needs to be fixed to be a convincing rifle.
Ok as far as the high poly goes it generally isn't high poly enough to get as much detail as you can from it. You are missing all kinds of detail in the high poly model that could have really pushed this to be a kick ass piece.
Examples.
-model the detail in the front grip. Results will be much cleaner and better than the photoshop filter.
-The edges of the magazine / clip on the high poly look way too rounded. They should be chamfered but it should be a crisp edge as well.
-Some details on the scope would be nice. knobs, buttons, rivets, etc.
As for the lowpoly. This is a weapon for an fps based game right?
What was the poly count given to you guys? 400 tris is crazy for an fps now. Guns and weapons are a huge part of the detail in the game in an fps since it can sometimes become the character.
How many smoothing groups did you have on the low poly? This can make a big difference when you do the normal map as well and how good it looks.
As for the textures. Right now they are rather blah. You can really use some different colors in there. Everything is the same color. Guns aren't like that unless they are painted to be that way for camo or special forces guys do it.
The grip is the same color as the barrel housing.
The scope should be a more shiny metal than the clip.
Just right now it's not doing anything for me texture wise.
Sorry to be so harsh but I know your work and you can make this better.