CrazyBump beta

Eric Chadwick

http://www.crazybump.com/beta/CrazyBumpSetup.exe

Converts photos into heightmaps and normalmaps, and does a pretty decent job of it. Also converts from normalmaps into heightmaps. Certainly better than Nvidia's Photoshop filter, at least for the photo part.

Evolved out of the tools at http://www.zarria.net. Pretty simple UI so far, but does some interesting things. Ryan's looking for feedback, so do send him some, good or bad. I just sent a bunch.

Ryno

Yeah, we've been using this program for a bit. It is MUCH better than the Nvidia filter. Give it a try.

Eric Chadwick

So far it's better than Nvidia only when I'm creating normalmaps straight from photos. But if I throw a heightmap at it, I get a lot less options than Nvidia (intensity is limited, can't invert axes, limited zoom, etc.). I'm not a big fan of super-simple UIs, they tend to remove flexibility & info.

But yeah, it is definitely worth a spin. I love the 3D Shape Blend slider, cool idea. And the lighting is so much better than Nvidia's.

Ruz

seems pretty cool really. Not too keen on the child like interface though

thomasp

would like to try it - but without an active internet connection it won't even run... next!

Ryan Clark

I agree that photo-to-normals conversion is what CrazyBump does best. I think it handles heightmaps better than nvidia, though.

Here's a comparison, so you can judge for yourself:

http://crazybump.com/images/BroadCurves1.png

poopinmymouth

I Ryan.

Ryan Clark

I'm not disagreeing about the need for more interface options, mind you. You're totally right about that. It still needs axis inversion, larger range on the intensity slider, and a host of other features which kind beta testers might suggest

Ryan Clark

Beta 2.2 is now ready. It sees the following changes:<ul type="square">
- Option to flip axes of normal map output
- Range of intensity slider doubled
- Background changed to a neutral color
- UI buttons reduced in size
- Right button moves lights in 3d view
- Preview rotation no longer resumes after you've stopped it [/list]

If you care to test, grab a copy from http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html

thanks for your suggestions,

-Ryan

Eric Chadwick

Hmmm, comparing your 3D Shape algo to Nvidia, I was thinking that I could simply combine their 3x3 with a 9x9 (using the overlay trick), and it would duplicate your results. But playing with your image proved my assumption wrong. I like CrazyBump's range much better.

This is a really cool utility.

Joao Sapiro

aww it says i need to get something to install it...gaaah

killingpeople

badass!

tremulant

Thanks ryan, this is totally sweet. No real comments in a crit way.

IronHawk

very cool Ryan.

Thanks

diZzyWalnut

aii aiii it's very fast here - before yeasterday I downloaded the CRAZYBUMP to make some tests and now I see - there's already new beta version 2.2. -
downloaded & tested.

---

Hello Ryan ,
Your CRAZYBUMP rocks - I've done a few test and I've got some problem in a 3D real time. The flip'ing axes doesn't works to me in a 3D real time. Maybe I do something wrong ?



Go and see my web page what I've prepared specially for You.

http://www.miseryproduction.com/crazybump.html

thank You

EarthQuake

Dizzy: i think that might just be an export setting to get your normal to work with whatever specific way your engine handles it?

CulBoji

This is verry nice, you just need to make a good height map before you get it in CrazyBump(like making the hair on a face white instead of black). Directly importing the color map leads to some height errors.

Anyway it is really great, will save me a lot of time, thx a lot Ryan!

Eric Chadwick

Like diZzyWalnut, I'm not a fan of the flip normals options the way they're currently integrated.

I'd prefer it just be an option on save. It'd be easier to understand the options if they were two checkboxes instead of one button, since I could see exactly what axes are negated. Also would help to have an image preview in the save window, to see what the negations are doing before I actually save.

Our engine currently likes X-left & Y-down, so it helps me if I can check the non-lit normalmap to verify protrusions are facing the right way. I don't want to see the lit normals being affected by negation, since I wouldn't expect your shader's orientations to match ours.

Ryan Clark

Hi diZzyWalnut,

I think what you want is to recolor the guy's beard and hair, to make them white. Inverting the whole map would mess up his nose and lips, which look correct already. Your best bet is to whiten his hair in a paint program, and then take him back into CrazyBump.

"Flip normals" is really a config setting for the app. It doesn't affect the bumpmap that you're editing. It just affects the colors used by the 2D view. I see that I placed it in a confusing spot. I think I'll follow Eric's advice here and move it to a save-options dialog.

thanks for the testing!

-Ryan

Wells

This thing kicks ass!

okkun

We've found using a combination of this and the Nvidia filter works best. Crazy bump is really good at creating a sense of depth for large scale detail but seems to struggle with small scale texture whereas the Nvidia filter is good at the opposite.

Ryan Clark

Hey Okkun,

I would be most grateful if you could send me an example where you've found CrazyBump doesn't do the best job. I hope thereby to improve the tool!

It sounds like you could benefit from a slider to adjust the weight of fine details in CrazyBump's "normals from broad curves" filter. Is that in the right ballpark?

thanks,

-Ryan

Eric Chadwick

Ryan,

How about alphabetizing the file formats in your Save dialog? Took my a little bit just to find TGA in there.

okkun

Ryan, great job on the program!

I did some tests and here's what I came up with:

I take back my previous comment about crazybump not doing crisp detail well, the version I had was pretty old and would crash on option 2.

New version does large detail really well compared to Nvidia but with a wide curve small details suffer.

So I ended up exporting 2 maps and combining them to get a good result. Perhaps a weighting option would be good so this can be done in one pass.

okkun

oops, I just realized the small detail has the green channel inverted. Either way I think you see what I'm trying to do -fixed

Joao Sapiro

this program looks great , but im still having trouble installing it it says i must get the latest something from microsoft...

Ryan Clark

I think you need Microsoft's .NET runtimes. If you look here, there's a link to download them: http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html

Let me know if that doesn't work!

Ryan Clark

Hi okkun,

I see what you're going for. I'll add a smooth / rough slider, so that you can do that one step. Thanks!

diZzyWalnut

[ QUOTE ]
This is verry nice, you just need to make a good height map before you get it in CrazyBump(like making the hair on a face white instead of black). Directly importing the color map leads to some height errors.
Anyway it is really great, will save me a lot of time, thx a lot Ryan!

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi diZzyWalnut,

I think what you want is to recolor the guy's beard and hair, to make them white. Inverting the whole map would mess up his nose and lips, which look correct already. Your best bet is to whiten his hair in a paint program, and then take him back into CrazyBump.

"Flip normals" is really a config setting for the app. It doesn't affect the bumpmap that you're editing. It just affects the colors used by the 2D view. I see that I placed it in a confusing spot. I think I'll follow Eric's advice here and move it to a save-options dialog.

thanks for the testing!

-Ryan

[/ QUOTE ]

ouupf I've just came home after work and I still keep my idea in my mind - here's :

1) generate normal map - NONE
2) generate normal map - FLIP Y
Export them both into Photoshop to make new file background
R -125, G -125 B, -255 and than first layer FLIP Y .... and second layer NONE.... and with eraser tool 100% just clean all the bad parties of normal map called NONE ( NONE is over FLIP Y - so in this case I'm going to clean all the hair , beard etc. etc.)....when is done - let's go for flatten image and save.
- I think that can works , isn't it guys.

Anyway I'm not going to sleep yet - so I will do the test.

---

Ryan ,
I think that's a pitty, if in 2D view we can do FLIP Y and we can NOT see the result in 3D view - 3D real time. I don't know if it's <u>technicaly realizable</u> but I'm sure that some users ( as me )will appreciate check out the result in 3D ....for any reason.
Can You think about that.

CRAZYBUMP rocks

thanks

rooster

I'm just curious, whats with the authentication each time you use it? will this turn into a commercial product?

conte

great program, Ryan.

Ryan Clark

Hey Rooster. It's going to see a commercial release eventually. I'm not sure yet what the price point should be, though.

JordanW

stoof downloaded this for us at work, pretty awesome program ryan.

default.rol

Hello,

It's my first post on these forums and I was hoping for it to be some amazing artwork after using this crazybump app that my friend introduced me to...

So I download the .exe and run the installer and this happens...

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/46/crazybumpscrazyinstallom3.jpg

Errmmm....

Cheers guys for any help in advance.

MIKE

Ryan Clark

Beta 2.3 is available at http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html

changes include:
<ul type="square">[*]Added a "roughness" slider for generated normal maps.
[*]Fixed a tiling error in 3d shape filter. It should be totally seamless now.
[*]Moved normal axis inversion to a new preferences panel.
[*]Imported normal maps now retain their original intensity.
[/list]
thanks for your help,

-Ryan

Ryan Clark

Hi Mike,

Could you run this program and send me a screenshot of its report?

http://www.tmgdevelopment.co.uk/versioncheck.zip

I hope that this will help me figure out what is going on.

Thank you for helping with the beta test. I'm sorry it's not working for you yet!

thanks,

-Ryan

default.rol

Hey Ryan,

I ran the .exe file and this is what it came up with...

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4656/checkam0.jpg

Hope that helps some.

MIKE

Ryan Clark

I notice you don't have the latest .net v1.1 service pack. I don't know if that's the problem or not. Try installing it from this website: http://tinyurl.com/d8j89

Also, download the new 2.3 beta of CrazyBump, just to be safe.

okkun

Wow, I just gave it a spin. Roughness slider works great!

I have another test I will try to post later concerning more mechanical type maps that we had some problems with using the earlier versions but I have a feeling the roughness slider will apply to fixing that as well.

okkun

I did notice a little quirk with the roughness slider;

If you max out the 3d shape blend you get a really nice depth, if the roughness slider is maxed out on top of that it seems to cancel out some of the depth.

Ryan Clark

Thanks, okkun. Good catch.

New Beta 2.4:

-Fixes the quirk with the roughness slider

http://www.crazybump.com/beta/download.html

tremulant

Downloaded this one, and ill let cha know what i think. So far, this is excellent, thank you soo much for making this man!

Black_Dog

I like it. The fact that you can make changes to the radius, height etc and see the changes in realtime is a huge improvement in useability over the PS normalmap plugin.

My feedback:

I don't care for the flashy interface, and I think it detracts from the application. I was particularly annoyed that the window couldn't be resized. IMO you would be better off ditching the scrolling effects and custom graphics to focus on stability, useability and features, particularly if you want to sell it. Getting things done is otherwise nice and straightforward though.

I think the buttons would be more readable as text, or supplemented with text.

Enabling maximise would be nice, to allow as much viewing area as possible.

Being able to drag the texture around seamlessly zbrush-style would be helpful in dealing with edge-of-texture seams . If dragging is too much hassle, you could just add a checkbox that would offset the image 50%.

A tiling view would be useful to see how well the map repeats.

Adding a variable zoom to the 3d preview would be useful for checking out fine detail (there's zoom, but it could be better).


It's a nice tool, looking forward to seeing where it goes.

EarthQuake

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. The fact that you can make changes to the radius, height etc and see the changes in realtime is a huge improvement in useability over the PS normalmap plugin.

My feedback:

I don't care for the flashy interface, and I think it detracts from the application. I was particularly annoyed that the window couldn't be resized. IMO you would be better off ditching the scrolling effects and custom graphics to focus on stability, useability and features, particularly if you want to sell it. Getting things done is otherwise nice and straightforward though.

I think the buttons would be more readable as text, or supplemented with text.

Enabling maximise would be nice, to allow as much viewing area as possible.

Being able to drag the texture around seamlessly zbrush-style would be helpful in dealing with edge-of-texture seams . If dragging is too much hassle, you could just add a checkbox that would offset the image 50%.

A tiling view would be useful to see how well the map repeats.

Adding a variable zoom to the 3d preview would be useful for checking out fine detail (there's zoom, but it could be better).


It's a nice tool, looking forward to seeing where it goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I second all of these comments.

Joao Sapiro

i instaled the latest beta , and i got to say : thank you

Ryan Clark

Thanks, Black_Dog.

I hear ya on the UI. Everything you've suggested will be implemented.

Black_Dog

Cool, thanks for listening.

One more thing to add: it would be nice to be able to open files by dragging them into the window from the file manager.

adam

[ QUOTE ]
I like it. The fact that you can make changes to the radius, height etc and see the changes in realtime is a huge improvement in useability over the PS normalmap plugin.

My feedback:
I don't care for the flashy interface, and I think it detracts from the application. I was particularly annoyed that the window couldn't be resized. IMO you would be better off ditching the scrolling effects and custom graphics to focus on stability, useability and features, particularly if you want to sell it. Getting things done is otherwise nice and straightforward though.

I think the buttons would be more readable as text, or supplemented with text.

Enabling maximise would be nice, to allow as much viewing area as possible.

Being able to drag the texture around seamlessly zbrush-style would be helpful in dealing with edge-of-texture seams . If dragging is too much hassle, you could just add a checkbox that would offset the image 50%.

A tiling view would be useful to see how well the map repeats.

Adding a variable zoom to the 3d preview would be useful for checking out fine detail (there's zoom, but it could be better).


It's a nice tool, looking forward to seeing where it goes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hear-hear. I'm 100% in agreement.


Just a random thought, but it might be worth investigating to see if you could have this application directly integrated in to Photoshop as a plugin. Take all of Crazybump's process and application and allow it to be run from within Photoshop, using its UI protocols.

I say this for 2 reasons. The first being all the points made in the quoted text and streamlining the UI a little more. The second being that I don't particularily like have a lot of applications open while I work. A standalone application for normalmap generation was a bit much for me when I tested Crazybump. I prefer a lot of your applications offerings more-so than the nVidia filter - but the nVidia filters accessibility, I find, is greater.

Ryan Clark

Excellent suggestion, Adam. A photoshop plugin-interface will definitely be forthcoming. Thanks.

Xaltar

Sweet app, thanks for the link.

Eric Chadwick

Looking good. PS filter is a great idea. Would be even better if settings were exposed to Action scripting, for easy batching (might have to do that via JavaScript).

Would be nice to load and save DDS files (8R8G8B, 8A8R8G8B, DXT5nm, etc.). Should create mips on save, Mitchell is my fav filter but Cubic would be fine.

Could file extensions be in alphabetical order?

When Intensity = 100, and Roughness > 0, each channel seems to go beyond the full 8bit range... they get clipped. Also happens when roughness = 0, just gets worse towards 100. For example, set roughness to 100, save, then check out the histogram for the red channel.