Which 3D Sculpting App?

Luxury

A question to those who have tried the different apps. Now that zBrush finally has some competition (Mudbox, Silo, etc?), which program in your opinion do you like the best? I'm looking into making the plunge, and just wanted everyones opinion beforehand. Sorry that this sounds so much like a Maya or Max? question as I really hate those as well. But do you see zBrush continuing it's stranglehold on the industry, or do you see one of the other contenders taking the spot once it's released? Which is the most fun to use? Ease of use with 3D apps? (I use Max).

Everyone has been complaining for ages now about how user unfriendly zBrush is, and that has held me off until now. And I know that the next version is supposed fixing a lot of it's problems (by stealing answers from Mudbox apparently). But what about Mudbox? Any ideas on how much it's going to cost? Silo is looking damn appealing to me atm with it's $109 pricetag and modeling tools included.

Thoughts? Likes and Dislikes?

Luxury

Oh, and by the way (since I can't edit a post that has a poll on it), Yes I have read all the threads here about Mudbox. Seems like it has already won the hearts of those who have tried it. Does it still?

Entity

I don't know, i've only used silo and zbrush (only for a short while) and so far I really like silo. I really would like to try out mudbox though

ironbearxl

In the long run I'd go with mudbox. Silo 2 looks very impressive, and zbrush 2.5 is feature packed, but mudbox (to me) has the best features.

Eventually, I want to be able to model an entire character from just a cube or sphere by just subdividing and worry about topology, etc later.

Snowfly

Silo 2 is my top pick, but out of the box, Mudbox has the best feel. I just started playing around with the Silo 2 beta, so I'll see if I can bring it up to something similar, though I doubt if it will ever be able to match the scene sizes Mud is capable of handling.

For sculpting, Mudbox.

Vitor

Sry if i don't help much because i just know one of those, but this thread might get usefull for me.

I've been just using and trying to learn Zbrush for a while now. About the different UI i guess that is mostly BS* as it can be hard to get throught at first but is a lot fast really when you get it, and fast UI really matters for me...

About Mb, after that first hype, i belive people really like it, at least the very traditional clay feel of the brushes. Really looking forward to try it too.

Mongrelman

I've not used mudbox, just the other two.

I find the sculpting in Silo feels better. To me in zbrush it usually feels like you are adding strips of clay on top of your model, whereas in silo it feels like you are actually pulling the clay outwards. To me it feels smoother.
The silo beta isn't very stable on my comp, so I've not been able to work with it much though, I'm sure it will be even better later on.

For zbrush, the UI is quite a boggle to begin with, but if you watch a training DVD such as from Gnomon or Kurv (or just free stuff on the net), it explains it very well. I don't have a problem the UI to be honest, it could be improved of course. Generally, once you know a few of the basics you can do a lot.
You can get a higher polycount in zbrush and more tools for fine details (and masking). And assuming version 2.5 actually does come out in our lifetimes, there are some great tools coming with that.

Personally, once silo is more stable on my comp (and/or I get a new one) I will probably be doing most of my work in that, and then take it into zbrush for the final touches.

I don't think there will be a stranglehold when mudbox is out as I'm sure it and zbrush will keep leapfrogging each other and 'borrowing' ideas. Yay! While silo will keep on doing it's thing and being peachy.

Fifth_miracle

I've used all three and I have to say that all three, save for the 2.5 version of Z-brush. All have their advantages, but to be honest for the majority of what you really need to do Silo 2 is more than sufficent. I've been pushing between 2.5-3 million polys in it, so breaking the mesh up into pieces I can double digit polys for the entire mesh. The retopology, features, and ability to use traditional modeling tools are solid gold. In customization and workflow is kills both Z-brush and Mudbox. I have everthing set up on my pen. All the major poly modeling tools are modifier/mouse button combos, less commonly used tools are acessed by context menus. Since, I use Mirai-style camera navigation I have all my camera options mapped to the MMB. I can toggle between sculpting and modeling using a button on my Intous 3. Then I can LMB over the mesh to sculpt, LMB in the viewport to tumble, MMB right/left to change brush radius, MMB up/down to change brush strength, RMB to invert the brush function. Hit Shift+LMB to smooth, Ctrl+LMB and I'm tweaking the underlying verts, edges, and faces. All this and its still a beta. Still its lacks masking, and resymetry features. Advanced brush controls are coming though.

That said I would give up Zbrush, its ability to create custom alphas on the fly with sculpting tools, and geometry projection features are unbeatable. Resymetry and mesh reconstruction are powerfuI as well. That and the texturing options are powerful and simple to use. I texture in Zbrush far more than I sculpt these days. 2.5 sound great and I sure that Pixologic has caved on the non-traditional UI; but who wants to wait another year, for it.

Onto Mudbox, its a great app. All of the features have been distilled and generalized. The brushes and brush controls are perfect; the UI is simple and elegant. The however missied the boat in how they integrated the app with tablets, its far to hotkey dominant. 3D layers work well, though there are some issues with tangent-base symmetry, it can be a pain to setup at times. The stamping controls and stencils are powerful and simple to use. However, its lacks the control of Zbrush's directional brush; so for precise placement of texture details, stencils are the way to go.

The bottom line:

Retopology - Silo
Customization/Ease of use - Silo
High Res Sculpting/detailing - Mudbox
Texturing - Zbrush
Alpha masking/Stamping - Zbrush
Polycount - Mudbox

I use all three, as none of them do every thing that the others do, and all have strong points. I will say though that Silo will do virtually everything you need a sculpting program to and cost a mere $109. I already use Silo as my primary modeler with a little Modo side-action so Silo will most likely be my primary sculpting package too. It just suits my style interface wise, being somewhat of a Mirai descendant. When the commercial version of Mudbox comes out I'll by that as well. When Modo gets a little better at painting I'll most likely dump Zbrush completely. Why sculpt details that I can paint in realtime. Just my 2 cents.

oXYnary

I have only used zbrush, but you should look at what else you want to do with the program. Zbrush has the advantage of being 2.5 which means you can paint it it as well, and even get finer detail by painting on bumpmaps. Something AFAIK neither silo nor Mudbox can do. Silo has the adnvatage of the ability to build the model from scratch inside of it with great topology. Though its polycount cant go as high as mudbox or zbrush. Mudbox isnt released yet, but main advantage that have drawn most people is its cleaner interface over zbrush, but lacks any 2.5d tools (plus no price has been announced yet?).

What seems to kill it for many people is the UI is so abstract from traditional 3d programs. I look it the opposite though, I see 3d programs interfaces as a problem sometimes with being too engineered versus haptically made. If you dont like the Maya or Maxs interface, after you learn zbrush (or Silo) these arent as frustrating in that manner. Though admitedly zbrush does lack a bit with more precise rotation control .

rooster

There are some things that just seem to be counter intuitive in zbrush though, which shouldn't have to be learned. When I accidentally de-select an object, why can't I just click on it again?

ironbearxl

Blender also has a really nice retopology brush in dev, I went over a mesh quickly for example:

Daz

[ QUOTE ]
There are some things that just seem to be counter intuitive in zbrush though, which shouldn't have to be learned. When I accidentally de-select an object, why can't I just click on it again?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention god forbid, actually being able to add new geometry like an eyeball. Christ, that's really asking a lot.

oXYnary

2.5 supposedly for that. Whats worse is deleting geometry. It totally ruins all detail at higher levels when you go back up the stack.

CheeseOnToast

Fifth Miracle summed up my thoughts on the three pretty well. My main beef with Zbrush is the inability to have several objects "live" at once, the classic situation being using a sphere to model the eye detail around. Zbrush with its ass-backward method of rotating the model within the viewport rather than rotating a camera around the model makes simple things like this next to impossible.

Super

I wish we'd get a date (even vague) for 2.5 or Mudbox. These guys are worse than Nintendo.

tacit math

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just a quick tip for oXYnary. if you're gonna delete geo from the base. set a morph target on your highest level before you do. or else. yeah. it'll f__k with all that detail

on topic. if it's opinions you're after : go silo. and zbrush. you'll get a whole lot more functionality between those two than you will with mudbox in place of either. but hell. it looks pretty. get that as well

oXYnary

[ QUOTE ]
just a quick tip for oXYnary. if you're gonna delete geo from the base. set a morph target on your highest level before you do. or else. yeah. it'll f__k with all that detail

[/ QUOTE ]

WHY DIDN"T I THINK OF THAT??!!! ARGH! The hours I spent redetailing...