Modeling, in Maya

thingthingy

Okay, so I have been modeling loads of objects, and if I do say so myself, I'm getting good at it.

Now, I know what I'm about to ask is hard to answer, as it's quite hard for most people to start off with - organic modeling.

Can anyone give me tips on where to start? And I'm not asking for someone to tell me what to do, bevause I know it's not that simple.

Thanks

animatr

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/org01.html

http://www.thegnomonworkshop.com/dvds/org02.html

I guess you could start there

AstroZombie

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Can anyone give me tips on where to start? And I'm not asking for someone to tell me what to do, bevause I know it's not that simple.Thanks

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Here you go: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?id=5659302&siteID=123112

(Pre-emptive: it's a joke, lighten up people )

Daz

You're really gonna need to provide more info to get useful responses thingy. Organic modeling sure. But what surface type? Polys, subD's, Nurbs? High res modeling? Realtime modeling? There are tons of good tutorials out there (btw animatr, that head model is awful!) so it might help you to be a bit more specific.

animatr

lol. i know it. i just looked for organic modeling in google and found that. but it looks like there is still a seam running down the middle of that guys head.

thingthingy

Astro - good one

Daz - Actualy, yeah, you're right, so here's more info!...

Polygonal modeling, for realtime. I'm gonna try more basic organic models before I try hi-res stuff.

Snowfly

Regardless of what technique you use, you'll need to know your anatomy to be any good at organic models. And this means all kinds of organics: humans, beasts, insects, reptiles...

All character models are built for motion, and the best basis for modeling things that move are found in nature. Learn those muscle groups, observe how they flex in different positions. Position the edges on the model so they can accomodate those motions.

The best way to work out edge flow in my opinion is still on paper. Trace the edges onto a picture, and translate that onto your model.

Learn to simplify. More edges around an area don't necessarily mean better deformation. Denser areas on the mesh are the ones that need to retain a more or less round profile when bent.

More tips coming at ya shortly. Good luck

AstroZombie

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Regardless of what technique you use, you'll need to know your anatomy to be any good at organic models ...

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and, if using Maya, a plug-in or twelve ...


Damn! on a roll. But, once again, only kidding for you Maya fans in the house

Snowfly

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and, if using Maya, a plug-in or twelve ...

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Yeah I spent $109 on my modeling plug-in for Maya...

Arcanox

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and, if using Maya, a plug-in or twelve ...

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Yeah I spent $109 on my modeling plug-in for Maya...

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What did you purchase? I'm not much of a Maya buff, but I'd still like to know what the Maya folks gear themselves up. I purchased Polyboost for Max recently and I'm totally floored with what it can do.

rooster

I think that was a sarcastic comment that he uses silo to model instead of maya.. me too now! whenever I have need of decent soft selection or other (ahem) advanced features I pop the model into silo

Arcanox

doh, I missed the link

Serves me right modeling at 3am

malcolm

What does silo do exactly that I can't do already?

motives

Well sure maya has gotten a bit better with 7.0 but it still lacks.

Malcolm, most times its not "what" but how you do it. The tools in more recent modelling apps are simply more streamlined and faster. I know you are a pretty hardcore defender of maya and i agree its a good software once you get around it (hell i had to do since we use it at work) just that never software outperform since their tools are more efficient for poly modelling.

poopinmymouth

Plus there is "constrain to edge" You can use a plugin to get it for an entire edge loop in maya, but you cannot constrain just a few verts or edges. I'd love to be proven wrong, because it's a hardcore part of my workflow, and no one yet has shown me an equivelent feature in maya.

malcolm

Hold down w and right click hold, the context menu appears. Align along> align axis with edge/face> pick edge or face, anything you select after is constrained to that axis. To get out of that mode just w right click and choose world, normal object whatever pivot you like. Is this what you are talking about Poop? Keep in mind when I ask what are the benefits of other 3d apps I am inquiring from an environment art perspective and most of the polycounters seem to interested in character art so my wishlist of features usually differs from most here.

Motives, I'll have to disagree, I played around with Modo 201 for a bit and found it really confusing and frustrating even with the Maya interface turned on, that is a relatively new app and I didn't think it was stream lined at all, also zbrush is pretty new and I doubt anyone will contend that its interface is the worst ever.

sinistergfx

That's pretty convoluted, and it wouldn't help for multiple verts/multiple edges at the same time.

malcolm

Not sure what you are talking about with multiple verts? You would like to constrain individual verts to different axis? Context menus are the most streamlined interface I have ever used, if you want to go old school just double click the move tool icon and select constrain from there, I find it less efficient and hide most of the interface in Maya now that context menus control all the poly modeling.

Snowfly

Hey malcolm, have you ever used the constrain to edge tool in max? It's slick. When it's on, you can drag any number of sub-objects around and they stay within the contour of the object. Most people use it to tweak the distribution of edges without having to worry about changing the shape of the model. It's a lot different than the axis constraining you're describing.

Of course Maya users don't need that tool because their polygon distribution is perfect

Daz

The thing that totally baffles me about these kind of 3D software arguments is, that as long as it can do exactly what you need it to on a day to day basis, who gives a flying fuck about the rest?
I'm sure Malcolm has a *very* fast workflow set up for cranking out his environments. Let's face it, we are talking about pretty low poly stuff here, even for next gen. I think the kind of speed gains people get fixated on are totally negligable for this kind of work. High detail modeling maybe, but for cranking out game assets? Shit man, what difference does it really make between 3D apps? Bugger all.

adam

Go Bif!

malcolm

I was actually wondering if there was some magic feature I was some how missing so I like to inquire about other tools from other packages. From what Bromell and Snowfly are saying in Maya hold down the c key and middle mouse drag along any edge, this works with multiple componants on other edges or its own edge. Has been in Maya since version 2.0 when I started using the software, for varying results press insert first and move the pivot of the selected components then constrain them to an edge.

Snowfly

In case any of you missed it, there is loads of sarcasm in my posts. I use all 3 apps mentioned in this thread, no problem. Maya is my most preferred. Silo, I love because it's the only one I personally own. I use it because I bought it (gotta get my money's worth), and consumes less memory than Maya. Just consider my comparison of max's edge constrain against Maya's contrain to edge unbiased, since I have used both. And yes I agree that editing sub-object pivots trumps several of max's features. Imo, It's worth the trade-off.

I agree we all develop our own personal workflows and we're all viciously efficient at them. No app war here. Anyway, just hoping thingythingy gets back to this thread so the discussion gets back on track.

Super

Despite using Maya for about 4 years now, I didn't know about that move along edge axis. Sweet. I wish the soft selection didn't suck so bad though, I mean its cool for animation but I really wish we could select components and have a fall off on them.

Anyway, here's a question for the Maya buffs: If I select more than 1 edge and extrude, *sometimes* when you start to move the extruded edge they will extrude in opposite directions unless you use the world manipulator despite the normals are facing the correct way, its a huge peeve and I've never figured out why it happens.

poopinmymouth

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From what Bromell and Snowfly are saying in Maya hold down the c key and middle mouse drag along any edge, this works with multiple componants on other edges or its own edge.

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Nope, still not the same. In maya you can constrain one vert to any respective edge with that C trick, or you can constrain multipe objects to that same edge. However in max, you do not have to pick a single edge. You simply move scale or rotate a group of verts or edges, and each one picks the edge that it sits on to move in. This means each sub-element is moving along a different edge.

Think about it like this: You make a cone, with one division around the circumferance. Now select just half of that edge loop, and "constrain to edge". You can now move it up or down, and the cone stays completely solid, not changing shape at all, but those edges will slide up and down along each vertical edge they exist on. It's a single move/scale/rotate option that is context sensitive to it's surrounding geometry.

malcolm

Ah yes, I understand what you mean now Poop! And no, I do not think Maya has that functionality.

Zcubed

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Think about it like this: You make a cone, with one division around the circumferance. Now select just half of that edge loop, and "constrain to edge". You can now move it up or down, and the cone stays completely solid, not changing shape at all, but those edges will slide up and down along each vertical edge they exist on. It's a single move/scale/rotate option that is context sensitive to it's surrounding geometry.


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I don't have Maya, so I'm not sure if this helps at all, but I believe most packages have a "Slide" tool that does what you're talking about.

Zergxes

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I really wish we could select components and have a fall off on them.


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I checked the option box for the soft mod tool, it has a falloff curve like Max. I think that extruding in the Z direction is a tad less wonky most of the time. I end up fixing it in world space, too.

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There are a lot of good tools in the animation set- particularly under 'Deformers' that can be used to model with- like the lattice and the non linear and sculpt deformers. Just delete your history afterwards. The sculpt poly tool comes in handy sometimes, too.

Like Snowfly said, deformation is important. I usually chuck a test skeleton onto my stuff to make sure I have enough edges in the right places.

Digital tutors has some stuff up, a bit cheaper than Gnomon but not as deep either.

----That constrain to edge tool sounds great, I'll have to give that a try.

poopinmymouth

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I don't have Maya, so I'm not sure if this helps at all, but I believe most packages have a "Slide" tool that does what you're talking about.

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Slide is the tool, however Maya is only able to do it on a single vert at a time. With a plugin you can slide an entire edge loop, but you cannot do it only on a partial one, or a single edge.