First/Second/Third party?

Rick Stirling

I've written a very brief overview.

http://www.rsart.co.uk/the-games-industry/videogame-party-system/

Feedback is always appreciated.

Xenobond

Nice. I had always had it in the back of my mind that there was no such thing as a 2nd party. I think it roots back to school when we had to write stories in 1st and 3rd person, because there could not be a 2nd person perspective.

Although not quite on topic... what would a second person perspective game be like.... ?_?

SuperOstrich

Hmmm, my understanding is slightly different:

1st party is the same.

2nd party means there are two parties involved, usually a publisher other than the hardware manufacturer and the hardware manufacturer. For example: Ubisoft is a 2nd party publisher for multiple consoles. Same with Activision, EA, etc. Basically, a 2nd party is anyone making titles without anyone inbetween them and the hardware maker.

3rd party is any company hired by a 2nd party company. For example: Spark was hired under contract to create Call of Duty: Finest Hour for Activision.

Are there any official rules on how this works? It wouldn't surprise me to know that I've been wrong all these years, although I never put too much thought into it.

bearkub

if it helps, the wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-party_developer

and for those less comfortable with wikipedia:
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1177634

Mark Dygert

I would say I agree with the bulk of what you stated. However it seems slightly slanted toward consoles only leaving out the PC market. Which I guess since it is shrinking we might as well ignore it? I have always taken the titles to mean how far removed the developer is from the end user. I like to think of it as "how many company to company contracts are between the team making the game and the end user".

1st party: 1 Party involved. The developer is creating, publishing, and distributing directly to the end user.

2nd party: 2 parties involved, very common. The developer is creating a game for a publisher who will approve and distribute the game to the end user.

3rd party: 3 parties involved, starting to become more common. Creating a game or certain aspects of a game for a developer who is using a publisher to distribute the game to the end user. These "pieces" are often character models, levels, expansion packs.

I think this is what you are saying but put in terms I can more easily relate to and does not leave out the PC market.

Luxury

[ QUOTE ]
I think it roots back to school when we had to write stories in 1st and 3rd person, because there could not be a 2nd person perspective.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not changing the subject, but there are a few books written in 2nd person. Bright Lights, Big City is a pretty famous one and so is If One A Winter's Night A Traveler.

My understanding is:
First = Hardware developer + its internal studios
Second = Independant developer (Third) having their game published by the hardware developer (First)
Third = Anything NOT associated with the hardware developer. Includes both publishers to developers.

So:
First + First = First
First + Third = Second
Third + Third = Third

SuperOstrich

Luxury, your description leaves out publishers developing internally, doesn't it?

My description was pretty close to Wiki's 2nd party explanation.

Rick Stirling

Lux - yup, thats exactly it.

Second party really is like first party, except the developer is not owned by the console manufacturer.

All PC titles are probably 3rd party.

Rick Stirling

SuperOstrich - as far as I am aware it's tied to the manufacturer of the hardware, not the publisher. So Ubisoft is always 3rd party whether or not they publish internally or externally developed titles, since they are not tied to a hardware manufacturer.

SuperOstrich

So in this scenario, a publisher is considered a 3rd party developer?

You know what? I've put too much thought into this now.

Rick Stirling

Gah, yes you are right, it's got nowt to do with publishers. Its all about the hardware

Luxury

Tis true. EA is the largest 3rd party publisher. When Sega ended the Dreamcast, they instantly went from 1st party to 3rd party. When they did this they were making all sorts of remarks about now that they were 3rd party, they were gonna take the top spot from EA. (and boy do I wish that was true)

SuperOstrich

They said that? Seems a bit unreasonable. I do remember them saying that the move was designed to make the company profitable again. I think they had one profitable quarter since the transition.

KDR_11k

Doesn't second party require at least partial ownership by the console manufacturer and of course complete exclusivity? I've seen e.g. Nintendo publish Capcom games but noone right in their mind would call Capcom a second party.

OTOH the second party term is artificial anyway, law and language only know first and third party (second party may be the customer), second party was invented for semi-independent dev houses like Rare in the N64 days.

Asherr

you mean it's not:

first party - made in industrialized capitalist countries.
second party - made in Communist nations.
third party - made in developing nations.

?