3D-Palace and DVD
polycounter lvl 18
Got a few bits and bobs to post.
3D-Palace
I've been working with 3D-Palace since last november producing online tutorials (as well as a brief peroid at Kuju Studios). Ultimately its lead to a DVD which will be released this week (you can actually buy this wooo).
I made a new set yesterday, introduction to sculpting in Zbrush, should be released today. Its an hour long and points out how use projection master (BASICALLY). I've seen alot of gnomon stuff and tried to adapt my stuff to fill in the wholes their tutorials often miss. This ones free too hehe
DVD Piece
Although not the most amazing piece of art I've made, this is the DVD model. From start to finish the DVD set has 20 hours + work, which is almost 3 times the average DVD tutorial. I quite enjoyed it, the model is around 4.5 poly, theres a few basic materials involved but its not normal mapped.
Heres the link to read even more about the DVD and its features:-
http://2dpalace.com/cgshop/product_info.php?products_id=46
Ah well theres a few bits n pieces, Hope theres something people can enjoy!
I'm about to start work at Staffordshire University next week and will be lecturing game design so if anyone wants to pop in feel free.
Just look for the stupid hyperactive lecturer and it'll prolly be me!
Laterz
Greg
3D-Palace
I've been working with 3D-Palace since last november producing online tutorials (as well as a brief peroid at Kuju Studios). Ultimately its lead to a DVD which will be released this week (you can actually buy this wooo).
I made a new set yesterday, introduction to sculpting in Zbrush, should be released today. Its an hour long and points out how use projection master (BASICALLY). I've seen alot of gnomon stuff and tried to adapt my stuff to fill in the wholes their tutorials often miss. This ones free too hehe
DVD Piece
Although not the most amazing piece of art I've made, this is the DVD model. From start to finish the DVD set has 20 hours + work, which is almost 3 times the average DVD tutorial. I quite enjoyed it, the model is around 4.5 poly, theres a few basic materials involved but its not normal mapped.
Heres the link to read even more about the DVD and its features:-
http://2dpalace.com/cgshop/product_info.php?products_id=46
Ah well theres a few bits n pieces, Hope theres something people can enjoy!
I'm about to start work at Staffordshire University next week and will be lecturing game design so if anyone wants to pop in feel free.
Just look for the stupid hyperactive lecturer and it'll prolly be me!
Laterz
Greg
This discussion has been closed.
Replies
Personally I'd recommend you hone your own art before releasing tutorials such as these unless they're just meant as an exercise in showing students where various tools and buttons are.
Polycount is famed for it's harsh critting, so I'm gonna be straightforward and honest here - this stuff isn't all that great. I really appreciate what you're trying to do by educating people in these tools, but as artistic examples they're still showing a lot of "no-nos" that might start off budding digital artists off on the wrong foot.
The ZBrush thing is a good example of how you can play with a mesh inside the program and take it in a more interesting direction moving stuff around - that's good.
However, you've made a common ZBrush mistake (that I regularly fall foul of too, and people keep pointing it out!) - you're missing a lot of mid-level detail. It's kinda a fairly undefined blobby mesh with a few detail bumpmaps painted on. There's not much nice organic flow or any musculature, the teeth look like cardboard cutouts too. Generally it looks like you've rushed through the middle stages which are often the most important in making a believable and good-looking sculpted mesh, and while i can appreciate that time constraints and wanting to get finished can cause you to skip along, you're setting a lot of bad examples with this.
Similarly with the DVD creature, while the mesh and proportions look pretty good (feet seem very blocky though), the texture is showing some common errors that again will be setting a bad example to people watching the tutorial. Using pure white,desaturated highlights on the flesh and kinda painting darker "outline" tones around guesses at muscle placement is a common error, and showing this as an example to students is starting them off on the wrong foot.
If you're not confident with your texture skills - make it a DVD just about modelling or rigging or whatever, or work on the texture more.
Even better, something that might help you and your students out, is to make a sheet or questionnaire asking them what they think could be improved about the model and texture, or giving examples of areas you can see for improvement.
Is there any chance we can see wireframes for this guy? Just wanna see that you're setting a good example there.
I appreciate you're doing this all out of good grace and a willingness to help, but I'd recommend really honing your craft before going out to teach others - else you might find them lapsing into bad habits due to not having any other input.
Phew, that was a long post! Hope you understand that all, I may have rambled a bit. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me or something.
Hope the lecturer job goes well. Try your absolute hardest
EDIT: Just noticed you said you're lecturing "game design" ... now, I hope you're not gonna be confusing anyone with this. "Game design" is where you design gameplay, and to a certain extent, level/game area layout. If you're gonna be teaching stuff like modelling and texturing, you should really get the name changed to "Game Art" otherwise I think a lot of people may get the wrong end of the stick. "Game Design" usually doesn't have anything to do with modelling, texturing and zbrushing.
I'll keep coming back for more can guarrantee it
I'll be teaching the theory behind level design, ludology, interface design and synergy ;-) and a few modelling classes.
Most of the time I see models with the inside of the hands turned towards the legs. Isn't it better to model it that way, or doesn't it really matter?
and another little thingie; there seems to be just a bit too much noise on your texture.
but it seems like a great tutorial for beginners though
Alot of methods / ideas used in the piece are to warn / illustrate tasks and problems beginners will most likely come across when making a model.
I've tried to be versatile and create a flow between technical skill (computer use manor) and artistic ability.
That said, congratulations on getting to do that dvd. Hopefully it'll help complete beginners a lot.
If you are going to do something like this again I think a better approach would be something on a smaller scale. This is a dvd for beginners so start them off with something for beginners. Some props for example. The dvd may have 20hrs of content but what good is that if the person learns how to cut corners in a bad way.
In 20hrs you could have done several things.
1)
Model a prop
Unwrap the prop
Render the texture map
Place in engine such as Unreal.
2)
Model an environmental piece
Apply unwrapping principles in previous lesson
Apply texturing and engine principles in previous lesson
3)
Now that they have a good grasp of the process move on to a character. Though make it a simple character.
Model character
Advanced unwrap and texture placement techniques
Advanced texturing techniques
Rigging a character
Animate a sequence for in game use
Export to game.
That could easily fill up one dvd. The good part for the dvd artist is that starting simple will lead yourself into a groove of creating art that should follow in to a good finished product.
Yes on one aspect I don't want to be harsh but you are trying to sell a dvd to aid people in their quest to make it in the 3d industry. Specifically games. If you can't get into the game industry with that model and no one else thinks you can then you should be placing it on a tutorial dvd.
The image showing the texture work is not a giant unwrapped texture. I don't put my name on uvwmaps because of what you said.
I wanted to stray away from the staggered approach like you suggested, 3 small pieces.
Everyone who makes a game design DVD creates the similar trend. With the project I wanted to show a focused attempted on swapping between engines to achieve a similar affect. Like you mentioned the Quake 3 Arena version of the Troll is optimised to 3000 faces and the Doom 3 version is around 4500. The difference is not really noticeable, however the extra is used mainly for animation streamlining.
The DVD is optimised for the troubles a beginner has with standard artwork. I've tried to include as much content from the FAQ I get in my classes at University and of course interest on forums.
I also never said anything about your texture size. I was more concerned with the wasted space in the map. You have many objects in that uvw that could use the same texture space. You also have many objects in there that are not taking up enough space. There are just way to many holes in that map and then a lot of tris taking up room they shouldn't. Take the weapon for example. All the spikes could take up a single space. That would solve the stretching as you would have more space for that one spike texture. Then you have the three skulls. Why would you have those three skulls taking up three spaces when they should only take up one?
Look at all the blank space of that map that could be filled in if you spaced your unwraps properly.
Also my crit about the tri count had nothing to do with going from engine to engine. In fact that hardly matters if this is a beginners dvd. You can get better deformations yes but if you build the model wisely a 3,5k character will animate just as well as a 4,5k character.
Everyone is concerned about this one because:
1) You did a lot of things wrong (no one should learn the wrong way)
2) You are charging quite a bit for this dvd. (32.99E is 42US) Why should anyone pay for your dvd when they can get better free tutorials online.
If this was a top notch tutorial going from novice to expert game art and design I could see the price but this isn't pro level work.
<--- Have you done market research buddy? do you work as a teacher?
My students don't enjoy current DVD's simpy because there is little focus and because alot of the time you don't actually make something you can later be proud of. I've had plenty of letters and emails asking for something different. So I've had a pop and it is selling well so far.
I see you've changed your tune regarding the texture map, yes there is some wasted space. But the DVD is not about perfection first time, the DVD is about adapting starting somewhere and having fun.
Also the distinction you've made regarding pro level work, I don't claim to be the worlds greatest artist, because at the end of the day I'm still young and learning myself.
But there is not one DVD product / Book which has as much information spread out in a simple manor with fun content.
I'm offering a free + voucher download to anyone who wants to try this out and see for themselves.
32.99 is compared to most DVD's out at the moment which are about 60$. Like I said before this DVD has 3 times the average hours and a lot of bonus content no mentioned in the 20 hours set.
Cheers
Greg
We are all concerned about the consumer in this situation. Just because you did a little demographic research in your own "Classroom" means nothing. I used to be a student, I used to go through tons of tutorials, and I know what I would buy. This is not it. Also being a teacher has nothing to do with it. I know of plenty of tutorial dvds put out by industry professionals or aspiring artist that are of better quality who have never taught a day in their life.
Before this gets to long, I hope you success with the continued sale of your dvd, however, I hope you take all the crits listed in this thread into concideration your next time around.
because at the end of the day I'm still young and learning myself.
But there is not one DVD product / Book which has as much information spread out in a simple manor with fun content.
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I'm young and learning myself. I probably have even more to learn than you do.
But if you really want to grow and improve, you have to be able to see the flaws in your own work. What everyone in this thread is saying is right. The texture map really, simply, isn't good. It's not a personal attack on you, or even one on your DVD.
Just learn from it and make a better texture next time. I hope, anyway your DVD sells well for you and your employer.
Sure man, doing a dvd/tuto is hard, But still, giving bad exemple, like that monster, is No help at all, That just mean thoses noobs will learn bad way, and give themself handicap when/if they get in the industry
This kind of art is Not competitive with the other, so whats the point?..
Anyway, I could give critic, but other in that thread already have done it, and they speak better then me. Plus, You dont realy seem to care much.
Goodluck, I guess, Honeslty I hope not to many noobs follow thoses bad examples. Sorry
If someone could close this thread now I'd appreciate it. I'm sure next time I post something you'll see a big difference
Cheers
Greg