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First Try WIP

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polycounter lvl 17
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Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
Well here is my first attempt at making a model from scratch. I have made this in Milkshape 3D vert by vert, face by face. Still a work in progress. I opened a 3D package for the first time about two months ago and have had no lessons, I figured all this out on my own so tips and constructive criticisim is welcome laugh.gif

try18gj.jpg

I am still working on the nose and will make the rest of the body too once I get the face right cool.gif

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  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Update, here it is with a bit of work done on proportions around the eyes, I also threw on a basic texture for reference. I will make a much better one for it when its done laugh.gif

    update12ao.jpg
  • Downsizer
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    Downsizer polycounter lvl 18
    You should show the wires for better crits. I can already see you need to study some edgeloop tutorials smile.gif
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks I will post up the wires laugh.gif
    I am completely new to this so I need a lot of tutos lol

    Here are the wires.
    wires17ss.jpg
  • yeluis
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    yeluis polycounter lvl 17
    good start just watch the spacing on yoyr geometry and work more the edge looping.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks guys, any ideas where I can find a good edge looping tuto?
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks, I will have a look laugh.gif

    [edit] Wow, great tuto laugh.gif No wonder I was having such a hard time, Milkshape does not have cuts functions so I was creating the geometry one vert at a time. I guess I will have to see if I can do it in blender. I will be getting 3DS MAX when I move to Bulgaria so it should be easier.
  • aesir
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    aesir polycounter lvl 18
    yea, well theres lots of ways to model. The key is just knowing what youre trying to make, and then finding the easiest way to do it in your program. The hard part is knowing what you want to make and how youre gonna make it.
  • Downsizer
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    Downsizer polycounter lvl 18
    When you begin modeling, don't worry about poly count, worry about form and art. In your case, think smaller detail, and study face curves.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    I have started from scratch again laugh.gif
    I looked through the Tuto aesir posted and figured out a way to do it in milkshape so I will post my results up tomorrow smile.gif Its 2:39am here so I gotta get some sleep, last time I blinked it was 10:20pm......

    Having some fun with it now. I am using some pics of the wife (only victim I could get hold of smile.gif )

    Thanks for all the tips laugh.gif
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Man, fuck this. Milkshape is just no good for higher poly models. I bought 3ds max 8 over the net so I am going to get to work learning how to operate it. Milkshape sux, my proportions look different in each view port for crap sake. I have spent 8 hours flogging a dead horse and have finally broken and forked out the $$ for Max. I am working on a total conversion mod for Vampire the Masquerade Redemption and I really need to get model creation down so I can make more realistic origional characters for my plot. I can do a lot in MS3d but it looks completely different in the game to the way it does in the preview port. Not to mention the fact that MS3D THAT I PAID FOR, took a dump on me the other deay telling me I registered my copy after it had expired. I have been using it for two months with no problems and now this. Then the tech support tells me it because I have a pirated version!!!! (I don't) and that I should pay for it, man I was pissed, now I just uninstall and delete all its reg keys and use the 30 day trial then repeat after the 30 days is up.

    End rant

    Here is what I mannaged in MS3D before I lost it and went on a spending spree. I can't go any further without it looking like a cats digestive tract so I guess its back to square one, hopefully Max 8 will work better for me, now to learn how to work it lol.

    fuck0qj.jpg
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    OK, can anyone tell me how to get images to zoom with the model in Max 8? I have been trying to figure out the control system for like 8 hours now and just can't find it frown.gif Also, can someone tell me how to reverse face order? I imported a mesh I was working on in Blender and for some reason when I port it into Max it keeps coming out backwards (face order). You guys are great, thanks for all the tips so far smile.gif

    [edit] OK, I figured out how to reverse vertex/face order, it was staring me right in the face laugh.gif
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    [bump]

    Anyone on the background pic zooming with the model? I just can't do any detail work ATM cuz when I zoom, only the model zooms and the backround remains the same frown.gif
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    Set the background to match Bitmap, I think that'll do it.

    You can flip your polygons in epoly mode by selected the faces and choosing 'flip normals' from the quad menu (right click)
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    [ QUOTE ]
    Set the background to match Bitmap, I think that'll do it.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    How do I do that? Sorry, I just got max and I am a complete noob lol
  • SHEPEIRO
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    SHEPEIRO polycounter lvl 17
    is this for working from references-

    if so- load the map in to a material (tick show texture in view port button(bellow material viewr)) and assign it to a plane, add a UVW mapper modifier to the objects stack and scale to bitmaps size (use tool) then possition behind model.

    hope that helps
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Sweet, thats exactly what I wanted smile.gif Thanks bro.

    Zbrush ROCKS, I have WAY overspent my budget this month frown.gif
    Still, its worth it. Zbrush is right up my street, I way prefer using brushes and the like to creating faces and verts. Now I can just make a simple vaguely the right shape model and do all the work in Zbrush, its so much easier for me smile.gif I will post up my work once I have it presentable smile.gif
  • IceWolve
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    IceWolve polycounter lvl 18
    I do something similar to shepeiro.

    I just make a plain. Put the image on it, and give the plain the lenght and width of the img. You dont realy have to put any modifiers on it.
  • Jerome
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    Jerome polycounter lvl 18
    milkshape works great for some stuff, def not highpoly models, but i've made some good stuff in it.
  • Snowfly
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    Snowfly polycounter lvl 18
    [ QUOTE ]
    I have WAY overspent my budget this month

    [/ QUOTE ]

    No kidding! On max and zbrush alone you exceeded half the average Bulgarian per capita! laugh.gif For non-profit work I might add.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    I am trying to learn all this for a TC mod I am working on. It will hopefully go a long way towards helping me organize a portfolio laugh.gif I am not in Bulgaria yet, I am miving there on the 20th wink.gif I have been in Africa but I am tired of all the bogus politics here. I am origionally from Zimbabwe but being white I had to leave frown.gif

    Europe, here I come lol

    Man, this is a lot harder than it looks but still easier than I thought..... if that makes sense :P I am making progress, I am trying to make a demon like creature, just started. The face is a bit too much for me at this point so I have put it on hold till I have learned enough to do it right. The demon gives me some creative licence so I can make more mistakes without it looking terrible wink.gif
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    I'll turn this into my art thread to show what I am working on at the moment smile.gif
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Here is a bench I made using one of poops tutos and textured for UV unwrapping practice smile.gif

    benchmy5.jpg

    Texture

    benchdiffrm4.jpg

    Bump

    benchbumpci3.jpg
  • Joseph Silverman
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    Joseph Silverman polycounter lvl 17
    It's in desperate need of a specular map.
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    If that was me i would have not unwrapped it like that.
    you could have just for example had 1 square concrete texture on the page and mapped the stone bits to that using overlapping uv's.
    also why would you need to have different wood for the top part of the bench?.
    I am sure you could have got away with using one big one if you mapped it sensibly.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks for the crits.
    SupRore - How do you make a spec map?
    Ruz - I mapped it like that so that I could have a bit of variety in the individual planks and also for practice mapping in segments. I could have easily mapped one plank and cloned it so it took less texture space but I wouldn't have had the extra practice. I will make another unwrap of the bench like you suggested though smile.gif
  • Ruz
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    Ruz polycount lvl 666
    Xaltar- you can get the variety by mapping different sections on to different areas of the texture.
    AlsoI did n't mean 'one' plank, just one section with planks, not 3. They are not really different enough to warrant the extra uv space
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Ah, gotcha. Cool thanks for the tip smile.gif I still have a LOT to learn...
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Here's another quick render after some tweaks...

    benchme2.jpg
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Heres my newest project based on Spark's awesome highpolly demon.

    reffdemondm8.jpg

    ^ As you can see, he provided an awsome screengrab for ortho purposes.

    Here is what I have so far, about 4 hours in. Crits, as always, welcome smile.gif

    demonfn0.jpg

    Sorry about the crappy presentation, I am tired..
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    The demonization process begins....

    progresspb2.jpg

    Just doing the symetrical base details ATM then I will move on to the horns and ears. Once I have collapsed and welded the to halfs I will add some nonsymetrical detail to give it character. So far its sitting at arround 1500 tris.
  • killingpeople
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    killingpeople polycounter lvl 18
    Xaltar: are you planning on modeling a highpoly character bust? what exactly are you going for here?

    i ask only because you're modeling in wrinkles and stuff in an old school fashion and that seems needless. if you're doing this just to practice, that's purpose enough. something like this will prove to be a great challenge but if you're aiming for a finished model, i'd try a more simplistic detailing approach whereby you would either add detail with your textures, or by using a 3d painting app.

    -kill
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Sorry, guess I should have said what I am planning. I am doing it as practice, this is only my second head (third if you count the piece of $#@! at the begining of this thread) so I need a lot of practice. Just from coming this far I have already learned a few new tricks. My goal is to do the most detailed LPM I can mannage in max. At the moment I am only doing the head but if it comes out nice I may be tempted to try doing the body too.
    Thanks for the reply.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Lil update.

    progressww1.jpg

    Any tips on how to add neat details?
    Now its on to finishing the neck and chin, then ears...
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    A bit more

    progressqv6.jpg
    progress2gc3.jpg

    Now to remove some symatry. Any ideas?
  • noritsune
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    noritsune polycounter lvl 17
    [ QUOTE ]
    Any tips on how to add neat details?
    Now its on to finishing the neck and chin, then ears...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Xaltar I think the details you're referring to (like wrinkles and ridges etc?) are what KP meant when he said you should add those either in the texture or in a sculpting program like zbrush. Unless I'm seeing something wrong, you are adding these details with polygon cuts and extrusions, right? Thats going to be a timeconsuming, laborious process for a detailed organic model like this one.

    personally I think you're much better off following KP's advice. It doesnt seem like anyone models organic detail this way anymore... do they?

    Aside from workflow issues, I think the model needs more attention paid to the corners of the mouth and eyes. There's more complexity to those areas than what your model's showing so far.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks for the advice. I have added all the detail I am going to using the cuts system, I was only doing it to get a feel for how it works and yes its a real pain in the ass laugh.gif

    Man, I just looked back at the first post I made here

    Thanks for pointing out the mouth and eyes, I was so caught up wasting time I completely missed it blush.gif I think I'll cut out most of the detail I added with the cuts and use the pollies to define the eyes and mouth better cool.gif

    [edit]
    Man, I just had a look at the first post in this thread again ooo.gif I can't believe I have learned so much in just five months and I had no PC for over a month in that time. Thanks a load for all the help guys, couldn't have come this far without ya wink.gif
  • Motz
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    Motz polycounter lvl 12
    Did you get Sparks permission?
  • killingpeople
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    killingpeople polycounter lvl 18
    permission for what?
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Yes, I got his permission to use his work as a ref. I also credited him for his work.
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    OK, this is the best I can do detail-wise ATM. Its already weighing in at 3252 tris and I have no idea how to add more detail short of adding a rediculous amount of polys.
    progress2ud2.jpg
    I am going to call the model side of things done on this guy and get on to the UVs unless someone has some good tips on making it better. I will also be doing a body for him seeing as he came out a lot better than I thought I was capable of cool.gif I am going to do him with spec and diffuse only so I can get some practice at painting textures, if anyone has some good painting tutos I would be most apreciative smile.gif

    Now to find some good demony body refs...
  • Spark
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    Spark polycounter lvl 18
    Looking good Xaltar! The thing I would suggest, and something that I think alot of people get into trouble doing is trying to add to much to soon. Meaning that they try to finish small areas before the whole of the mesh is done, I think one should make sure the flow of the head is working and everything is in place before you start with the smaller details. It's sorta like a painting, you flesh out the canvas before you start working the finer details in, as it is hard to finish a small corner of the canvas and know where to go from there. This is a good way though to learn what works and what doesn't, I am just gratefull for programs like mudbox and zbrush, as I can go back to some of my traditional training, and not cut in tons of little details that take days:) Keep up the good work!

    Spark
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Thanks Spark laugh.gif
    So far I'm happy with the meshflow, no ugly bumps or pulling anywhere, that I can see at least.. This is by far the best I have been able to do to date. I have gone back and removed a lot of the details and cleaned up the flow of the mesh and have started to block out a body for him. I'll post some progress shots once I have something less embarassing to show, my body is a mess so far, I need some good refs..

    Does anyone know where I can find a good set of muscular refs?
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Ok, little update. I have scrapped the body. I will start it again from scratch once I can find a side view of a muscular man or demon for reference.

    progressdz5.jpg
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Update laugh.gif, I've made the basic body and started detailing the upper and mid torso, still a lot to do but its starting to come together.

    update1nx4.jpg
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
  • Turoid
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    Turoid polycounter lvl 17
    Looking very good. Maybe can you lower the middle of his muscles a bit.. they look little like titties now
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Good point, now that you mention it laugh.gif
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    Update
    Headshot
    updatehdh5.jpg

    Body with some tweaks, a tail and hands. Still a lot of work to do and proportions to fix but its getting there.
    update1wg3.jpg

    C&C welcome
  • Xaltar
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    Xaltar polycounter lvl 17
    OMG, I can't believe I thought that looked OK....

    Update

    update1bv0.jpg
    update1tss8.jpg

    I've been busy redoing the body. Still a long way to go but hey, I'm learning every step of the way, which is great but it means things take longer....
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