Da Vinci mayhem
polycounter lvl 18
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movies/05/16/film.davinci.protests.ap/index.html
I don't get what the big deal is...because Jesus might actually have had a wife and child(ren) it might totally wreck the whole fantasy that Jesus was chaste? If he married Mary M. I don't see why that wouldn't be great news to those who celebrate the virtues and moral benefits of marriage.
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I wonder if the people doing the protests and stuff realise it's a work of fiction?
... just like the bible...
AHAHAHA!
Well actually, to quote some people in that article:
"(it) defiles the sanctity of Jesus Christ and distorts facts."
What "facts" are they again? The ones in that 2000-year-old book whose origin is intensely dubious? If I write down some made-up crap in a big book now and leave it 2000 years, does it somehow become true as time progresses?
(yea, even the old testament)
i should get a copy of the book and finish it. only made it halfway through because of events in my life. thought it was an excellent book.
i find all the 'evidence' fascinating. really enjoyable and thougth provoking watching all the DaVinci code specials, the Gospel of Judas and Science of the Bible on Discovery Channel and National Geographic Channel.
right or wrong, it IS a work of FICTION. i wonder if the boycotts will have a significant impact or if this movie will gross as much as The Passion?
there is a controversy because a lot of people consider the biblical personas as having actually existed, whether or not they did is up for debate. if i wrote a story where ghandi was really white and he roamed the countryside fighting vampires, there'd be something with that too. and it would be a lot more awesome than "jesus had a kid olol"
if i wrote a story where ghandi was really white and he roamed the countryside fighting vampires, there'd be something with that too.
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Please write that book!
I was also urged to read the missing texts by my church. The bible as is is kept the way it is for historic value. It was published thousands of years ago as is, and major book additions don't take place simply because it's not how it was meant to be read. I was never told these missing texts were bad.
So, anything you wanna know I can look up for you. But this davinci code thing is'nt new, and he took his story from real research the church was doing. I personally would'nt care if he had children or not. We don't look down on his father for having him, and in fact some catholic break offs think Mary had sexual relations with a man named Zechariah. So yeah. Just ignroe the 15% fanatical catholics, and pay more attention to the mean avg. Most of us make our own opinions as was most likely intended given the cryptic way the bible is versed.
As far as if the biblical figures exsisted. Well most have been proven as real people, but the names were changed for most of them when the book was first distributed/published/whatever.
As for teh sanctity of Christ. I understand it's great to protect it and hold your faith in high value, but it's not our place to judge. If indeed this is something deemed negative, those involved will get sorted out by god. It's really not our place to throw stones. Religious or not.
I kinda like seeing multiple sides to things, and feel that if it was discovered to be true, that it would actually give a positive light to him and bring new meaning to family value in the church. Eh.
13 year olds who read this book now think they are philosophers because they know a big world secret but don't know the meaning of philosophy.
Dan Brown is a terrible writer too.
EDIT: Are there any good proof sitesthat this whole thing is BS?
The thing I find the most funny about situations like this is the fact that they are so threatened by this movie that they need to protest. If they were actually as deep of belief as they claim they would simply ignore it.
Oh well, they surely due make for good entertainment from time to time.
MoP: I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy this thread more if you (and anyone else) can refrain from bashing Christianity or any organized religion without provocation. You're a non-believer, that's apparent, but mocking other people for believing is lame.
snemmy: I've always been of the opinion that the message was more important than the man. Whether Christ is divine or not, I don't know anybody who thinks the "do unto others..." philosophy isn't a good way to live. Of course, my attitude about this makes me a very bad Catholic indeed.
Mishra: which personages do you think are up for debate?
Ninjas: I tend to agree about The Da Vinci Code. The plot made the book a real page-turner, right up until the end when it really turned to shit. Dan Brown is to books what M. Night Shyamalan is to movies - a good story doesn't need a twist ending to be a good story.
arsh: Definitely. I can't help but roll my eyes at the narrow-minded zealots who think that all this bluster about boycotts is actually hurting the film. Without the hype, this movie would do well; with all of the angst and hand-wringing that's in the media now, I see now way this is anything but a blockbuster.
Downsizer: pretty much everything about Catholicism is available on the web, for those who are legitimately curious. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/index.html for teh w1n.
I don't read books without pictures out of principal but from what I've heard - it seems quite a fun read.
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if i wrote a story where ghandi was really white and he roamed the countryside fighting vampires, there'd be something with that too.
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Please write that book!
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i will, and it will be named "an eye for an eye makes the whole world DEAD" or something.
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Mishra: which personages do you think are up for debate?
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people debate about all the personages, i've heard arguments that moses didn't exist, that jesus didnt live, everyone. not saying i agree, but they are debated.
MoP: I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy this thread more if you (and anyone else) can refrain from bashing Christianity or any organized religion without provocation. You're a non-believer, that's apparent, but mocking other people for believing is lame.
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Vermilion, sorry ... I wasn't very specific there.
I didn't intend to mock other people for believing in God, believing in the existence of Jesus or miracles or anything - people are entitled to believe what they want, and I shouldn't judge that.
However, what I do have a beef with, is people who quote the Bible as "fact" ... like, absolute truth which is viable arguing material when confronted with statistics, reality, or any sort of scientifically testable fact.
So yeah, if people read the Bible and base their ethical or moral code and lifestyle off it, that's up to them, and absolutely fine.
What I personally cannot stand is when people say "oh, but the Bible says it, so it definitely happened", and then act as if that's case closed, Bible knowledge trumps all because the facts are older and written under God's influence (whatever that is), so anything else couldn't possibly be valid. That's what gets me. And I've seen it happen so many times.
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Mishra: which personages do you think are up for debate?
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"A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp. He was over nine feet tall."
- Samuel 17:4
I'd say that's pretty debatable right there
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Without the hype, this movie would do well; with all of the angst and hand-wringing that's in the media now, I see no way this is anything but a blockbuster.
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Haha, absolutely right
Plus it's got a whole ton of great acting talent... that alone makes me want to see it, even if I'd never heard of The Da Vinci Code.
verm: yes the message IS the most important thing. but there are some that feel that his message was MORE important because of his divinity. that he was not worth their time if he were but a simple mortal. at least that's the feeling i get from seeing interviews with people. where as i feel that being a mortal makes his message MORE powerful. i dont think there's been nearly anyone who's had as much impact upon the world as Jesus, mortal or divine being. ESPECIALLY with a message of love and peace.
Btw, I started reading it on the plane back from Vegas a couple of weeks ago. Not because I wanted to, but because I felt that I had to see what all the fuss was about. Im enjoying it so far to be honest, but my taste in books isn't particularly sophisticated. Right, back to some lighthearted Franz Kafka.
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MoP: I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy this thread more if you (and anyone else) can refrain from bashing Christianity or any organized religion without provocation. You're a non-believer, that's apparent, but mocking other people for believing is lame.
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Vermilion, sorry ... I wasn't very specific there.
I didn't intend to mock other people for believing in God, believing in the existence of Jesus or miracles or anything - people are entitled to believe what they want, and I shouldn't judge that.
However, what I do have a beef with, is people who quote the Bible as "fact" ... like, absolute truth which is viable arguing material when confronted with statistics, reality, or any sort of scientifically testable fact.
So yeah, if people read the Bible and base their ethical or moral code and lifestyle off it, that's up to them, and absolutely fine.
What I personally cannot stand is when people say "oh, but the Bible says it, so it definitely happened", and then act as if that's case closed, Bible knowledge trumps all because the facts are older and written under God's influence (whatever that is), so anything else couldn't possibly be valid. That's what gets me. And I've seen it happen so many times.
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Alrighty, that I can get behind. In general, Catholics and the Church do not hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible. I think it's clear to anyone who looks at it rationally that much of the Old Testament is intended to be allegory anyway. But every faith has it's fundamentalists and the like, and I know the sort of whom you mean. Why the notion that maybe God didn't create the entire universe in seven days somehow invalidates the message of Christianity is something I just do not get.
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Mishra: which personages do you think are up for debate?
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"A champion named Goliath, who was from Gath, came out of the Philistine camp. He was over nine feet tall."
- Samuel 17:4
I'd say that's pretty debatable right there
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Heh. Next you're going to claim that Methuselah didn't live to be 969 years old...
let me clairfy that it was an excellent book for the subject matter, otherwise it felt like a cookie cutter detective story.
verm: yes the message IS the most important thing. but there are some that feel that his message was MORE important because of his divinity. that he was not worth their time if he were but a simple mortal. at least that's the feeling i get from seeing interviews with people. where as i feel that being a mortal makes his message MORE powerful. i dont think there's been nearly anyone who's had as much impact upon the world as Jesus, mortal or divine being. ESPECIALLY with a message of love and peace.
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Right on, brother!
While I was born and raised a Catholic, I've become very ecumenical in my old age. It seems likely to me that all of the major religions are 'real', and that each of them was designed by God to give a specific people what they needed at a specific time and place. IMO, Jesus being a man with a message works exactly as Lao Tzo, Buddha, Moses, Muhammed and other religious icons long have - they need not be divine to reach the hearts of others. The great tragedy of the world may be that people have long chosen to divide themselves based upon trivial religious differences rather than unite themselves in their significant moral and ethical similarities.
And it makes you want to jump, doesn't it Daz?
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Dammint Mop! You made me spit beer!
Still, after being exposed to shitloads of Frank Millers Daredevil and watching 6 years of Soprano's episodes I find myself, strangley enough, wanting to be Catholic.
I am intrigued by the whole confession thing. Although I do have questions! Important ones to be sure!
I like how the Catholics seem to be a little more in favor of drinking than the Babtists!!!!!!
I do realize that being 43 and deciding to be Catholic, I have missed out on the whole opportunity to go to Catholic school and lust after the Catholic school girl uniforms without feeling like a pervert. I can live with that it hs passed me by
Bah, I'm just rambling. I am contributing nothing. Blame Clan McGregor
I like how the Catholics seem to be a little more in favor of drinking than the Babtists!!!!!!
I do realize that being 43 and deciding to be Catholic, I have missed out on the whole opportunity to go to Catholic school and lust after the Catholic school girl uniforms without feeling like a pervert. I can live with that it hs passed me by
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Damn, almost makes me wish I hadn't given up religions as crocks...
Well, not really. I went to a catholic school. No uniforms. Just the highest drug and pregnency rates in the province.
i've dated two girls from catholic schools, the uniforms are quite nice but the girls tend to be high maintenance and prissy.
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Yeah but they're frisky and they put out. Some of my best teenage memories are from jumping back over the wall of the Catholic girls school at 2 in the morning.
i've dated two girls from catholic schools, the uniforms are quite nice but the girls tend to be high maintenance and prissy.
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Thats ok, I'm not gonna be dating any Catholic School girls anytime soon. I just like the skirts and knee socks.
It's the Kevin Smith in me
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i've dated two girls from catholic schools, the uniforms are quite nice but the girls tend to be high maintenance and prissy.
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Yeah but they're frisky and they put out. Some of my best teenage memories are from jumping back over the wall of the Catholic girls school at 2 in the morning.
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oh thats true, just dating one is a bad idea though. don't fall in love with a catholic school girl is my point.
Celebacy for priests became vogue in the early 300's, thanks to some cultural blending between Roman traditions and Constantine's offical backing of Christanity.
The sad part to me is the number of people who actually believe a work of fiction coupled with the number of church-goers who haven't bothered to learn some basic world history, or heck even crack a Bible open.
http://www.worldslargestthings.com/easterntour/wadlow.htm
Mishia and Daz, Catholic schoolgirls can be fun if youre in to weird sex. Being tied up, having sex in a tub with jell-o. Very interesting but the jell-o in your ass feels very uncomfortable.
Face it everyone, Moses was a Highlander and so was Jesus.
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Now there's a movie I'd watch. Too bad Heston can't reclaim his role as Moses.
most people who support the book (and, coincidentally, the guy that wrote it) don't know much about decent scholarship, early church history, or Christianity. and not knowing shit about a religion means when the religious people get angry about something they must be cuh-raaazy, right? cause i mean religion, right, lol!
and then of course on the other side of things you have a lot of fundamentalists flying off the handle (just like with the intelligent design garbage) because they don't know much of anything about their own religion, either, and so they feel threatened whenever when anything comes up about religion that they don't understand. which is most of it.
the Catholic response has hardly been unreasonable--most of the books written against the DVC are pretty dry, academic affairs, ticking off the long, long list of erroneous assumptions Brown is working off of. but of course, nobody wants to read that stuff.
the Da Vinci Code is one of of the most popular books in America--yeah, and "Two and Half Men" is the most popular comedy on American Television. maybe you can "crack the code" of my inference between the two.
It's like they never noticed controverse or negative movies about religion before.
Then again, it's sad. There's so many movies putting whatever religion, politic or minority group in a bad/undesired light and yet, it's the ones preaching tolerance and love that react like retards.
gauss, how do you know Brown "doesn't know shit" about what he's talking about? Yes, the book is fiction, but to say he doesn't know shit is a little bold, especially for you!
Aaaaaaaaand drama!
i honestly wouldn't have bothered, but in the course of refuting certain erroneous claims or distortions about the Church, the book features a rather edifying discussion of Gnostic philosophy through the years. actually very interesting.
i'm not challenging Brown's ability as a storyteller, because that is most certainly not in question. but his historical and theological groundings are shakey at best, that's all.
oh haha don't you yearn, YEARN for drama!
i honestly wouldn't have bothered, but in the course of refuting certain erroneous claims or distortions about the Church, the book features a rather edifying discussion of Gnostic philosophy through the years. actually very interesting.
i'm not challenging Brown's ability as a storyteller, because that is most certainly not in question. but his historical and theological groundings are shakey at best, that's all.
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It's fiction!
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
FICTION
just remember that
it's FICTION FICTION FICTION that claims to be well-researched abouts its facts. and it just isn't. it'd be one thing if Brown were making it all up and just having a laugh about it, but Brown really believes in all his own bullshit, about the Church suppressing the role of Mary Magdalene. he really does. and that is what's fair game for criticism. not all the traipsing about europe solving art puzzles, obviously; the only people who are angry about the Da Vinci Code in that respect are the Society Against the Solving of Anagrams (SASA).
we can all make fun of tom cruise for his crazy alien religion, but if someone comes around with supporting ideas only marginally better founded, then we can't poke fun?