A Survival Horror MMO/MUD Project
polycounter lvl 18
Ok, some of you were probably expecting a link to a cool Survival Horror MMO/MUD/RPG, or some nice eyecandy or something, and now are horribly disappointed. Beyond that, I just wanted to discuss a few things.
First off this idea came to me after two events. One was that the head of NYU's Digital Imaging and Design major brought in two graduating students to discuss their senior projects, and they basically stated to start concepting/coming up with an idea the first semester you arrive. Then later this week I watched Silent Hill. I also realized that survival horror isn't exactly at the top of the list when it comes to potential MMO projects.
And now basically I'm in a bit of a rut. No one in the Digital Imaging and Design major has taken the Game Design route in the past two years, enough that they no longer have teachers on staff to teach said classes. Secondly, I've got permission from my advisor to pursue this route on the basis that I design the curriculum for myself, and present my progress to him as part of an Independant Study course.
How does a Survival Horror MMO/MUD relate to this? Basically you're allowed to do whatever you want for your final senior thesis, so long as it fits two criteria 1)That it relates to your chosen path of study, and 2)That it gets approved by a panel at NYU, and whoever they bring in from the industry (I have no idea who this would be since I've heard only one other person has done the Game Design senior thesis/project). Anyways, my question is as follows:
Given that I create a decent game design doc, what are the chances that one person could mod UT2k4/UT2k7 to have the bare minimum for a minimalistic MMO/MUD proof of concept (ie. a few droppable items, a quest or two, a player character with a few variations, a few MOBs, and a map supporting 32-64 people, with creepy ambient sound) by December 2007/January 2008?
Or should I just go with modding UT to have a few new guns, and a level like the guy before me did?
That and would anyone ever want to play a survival horror MMO/MUD? I've thought about this since coming up with the idea. Like I have my doubts about masochistic human beings can be, such as they wouldn't subject themselves to WoW or Lineage 2 hours of play in a world basically designed to torment them with anxiety, fear, paranoia, uncertainty, etc.
*shrugs*
First off this idea came to me after two events. One was that the head of NYU's Digital Imaging and Design major brought in two graduating students to discuss their senior projects, and they basically stated to start concepting/coming up with an idea the first semester you arrive. Then later this week I watched Silent Hill. I also realized that survival horror isn't exactly at the top of the list when it comes to potential MMO projects.
And now basically I'm in a bit of a rut. No one in the Digital Imaging and Design major has taken the Game Design route in the past two years, enough that they no longer have teachers on staff to teach said classes. Secondly, I've got permission from my advisor to pursue this route on the basis that I design the curriculum for myself, and present my progress to him as part of an Independant Study course.
How does a Survival Horror MMO/MUD relate to this? Basically you're allowed to do whatever you want for your final senior thesis, so long as it fits two criteria 1)That it relates to your chosen path of study, and 2)That it gets approved by a panel at NYU, and whoever they bring in from the industry (I have no idea who this would be since I've heard only one other person has done the Game Design senior thesis/project). Anyways, my question is as follows:
Given that I create a decent game design doc, what are the chances that one person could mod UT2k4/UT2k7 to have the bare minimum for a minimalistic MMO/MUD proof of concept (ie. a few droppable items, a quest or two, a player character with a few variations, a few MOBs, and a map supporting 32-64 people, with creepy ambient sound) by December 2007/January 2008?
Or should I just go with modding UT to have a few new guns, and a level like the guy before me did?
That and would anyone ever want to play a survival horror MMO/MUD? I've thought about this since coming up with the idea. Like I have my doubts about masochistic human beings can be, such as they wouldn't subject themselves to WoW or Lineage 2 hours of play in a world basically designed to torment them with anxiety, fear, paranoia, uncertainty, etc.
*shrugs*
Replies
would you be able to provide say, pre-production materials rather than like a demo? Like all concept art, level art, character models, an evnioroment or two, and game design docs? or would you have to have something playable?
I apologize if that's a dumb question, I don't know what you
degree encompasses.
But, I definitely would play that type of game if it were out. It'd be really hard to make an MMO super scary and invoke paranoia though. Maybe if it were an Oblivion-ish type of scary game, where you could level up and what not, but it were scary.
Best of luck with whatever you decide though
I think it's a cool idea for a game. I think it'd be really hard to get it done in time though, especially with a FPS engine.
would you be able to provide say, pre-production materials rather than like a demo? Like all concept art, level art, character models, an evnioroment or two, and game design docs? or would you have to have something playable?
[/ QUOTE ]
I could actually if I wanted to. I would have to specify the modelling path however, then go with a game art specilization.
[ QUOTE ]
I apologize if that's a dumb question, I don't know what you
degree encompasses.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, not a dumb question. Actually...I don't know what the degree for Game Design encompasses either, since neither does the staff there since only 1 person has completed it in the 4 years its been offered. I was told no one usually signs up for the courses when offered, and the school is slowly shifting towards a broadcast design focus (90% of students right now are taking the broadcast end of it this year).
[ QUOTE ]
But, I definitely would play that type of game if it were out. It'd be really hard to make an MMO super scary and invoke paranoia though. Maybe if it were an Oblivion-ish type of scary game, where you could level up and what not, but it were scary.
Best of luck with whatever you decide though
[/ QUOTE ]
I planned on using uncertainty, isolation, and lack of control to invoke most of the emotions. That and you would not necessarily be able to rely on a large number of people being around to assist you all the time.
There was that online RE game Outbreak a few years back. I guess it flopped in a huge way. I think that the idea itself if flawed. How scary can it be if there are 10's to 1000's of players running around the world? That's the whole point of survival horror games is that you are alone and have nowhere safe to go. But I digress. Check out RE Outbreak and make note of it's failure and what it did wrong.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats what I figured. One of the game mechanics I was toying with was similar to the idea of the "Darkness" in Silent Hill, except instead of the world falling apart, you would suddenly be alone, or with a much smaller group of people. You would be able to "hear" the people who used to be around you in the area, but unable to interact with them or see them. It would be like dungeon instancing in certain MMOs, but without the option of choosing when it happens, or who you'll end up with.
Edit: It appears the only country RE Outbreak came out in that supported network play was Japan. I guess thats why it failed. According to the Wiki at least...
If well executed this could be a really cool game. Diablo had alot of the hellish horror stuff going on, it wasn't very scary as much as it was just action, but if the game wasn't too shy to show alot of gore and had good gameplay it could be really successful. Only thing is, after awhile the players would just get desensitized, and it wouldn't be very scary, you'd have to have alot of random events in missions, like boom, the floor pannel under your character caves in and all of a sudden you are in the dark and the rest of your party is way above, and you can't find a way to get back to them... so it becomes a much more personal experience, while still being coop in some areas.
As for actually making this... I wouldn't recommend UT... its an interesting idea, but i don't think its doable as a thesis project, i mean it would definitely be impressive, but you might want to try and do something a little less ambitious.
this would work amazingly well with diablo/guild wars mechanics, the "lobby" is an mmo type thing where players can get together, like that church from silent hill, so they get together "get quests" flaunt their findings in the "hell" and just socialize, then they venture out into hell in small groups and those would just be instance missions, just like guildwars or diablo, only it would play out as a horror/survival game, with players having to use a combination of classes to get through different areas, the group might get separated on purpose, which could be really damn cool.
[/ QUOTE ]
Soloing would also be an option (for the suicidal/daring/loner/skilled), but progress would require the help of others. Since the basis of most survival horrors isn't just mass killing stuff, but discovery, exploration, puzzle solving, the same thing would purvey into the game (but minorly in the demo, since there'd only be 1-2 quests).
It would be like trying to work through a horror mystery novel, but with a large group of people (ie. survival horror on a grand scale, not just one person figuring out a mansion, or a single person's or groups story like in RE and Silent Hill, but a group trying to figure out the story behind the world they've been cast into). The players would know nothing about the world beforehand, other than what they bring with them from real life. There would be no backstory, names of monsters, maps, etc. handed out on a silver platter beforehand like most MMO's do.
[ QUOTE ]
If well executed this could be a really cool game. Diablo had alot of the hellish horror stuff going on, it wasn't very scary as much as it was just action, but if the game wasn't too shy to show alot of gore and had good gameplay it could be really successful. Only thing is, after awhile the players would just get desensitized, and it wouldn't be very scary, you'd have to have alot of random events in missions, like boom, the floor pannel under your character caves in and all of a sudden you are in the dark and the rest of your party is way above, and you can't find a way to get back to them... so it becomes a much more personal experience, while still being coop in some areas.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've found names, lables, and information are valuable things in life. If someone in game starts shouting "Shit! Something's following me..." instead of "Shit! A Red Tailed Succubus is following me..." it adds a lot more confusion, and a sense of the unknown to people hearing the message.
Instancing would play a part for personal experiences within the world. Otherwise they are free to roam about the world together. If 100 people all want to try and cram into a small gunstore, or town square at once to load up on precious limited ammo and supplies, be my guest. The panic should be amusing for people outside town, and GM's to watch once the creatures happen into town. I'd also try and shy away from gimicky less frightful monsters.
Playing on emotions, fears, and assumptions will be the core of creating the horror experience. I'd actually look foward to people becoming desensitized. They eventually would from 'living' in that environment for so long. Thats when you release more content or events that challenge their newly held assumptions.
[ QUOTE ]
As for actually making this... I wouldn't recommend UT... its an interesting idea, but i don't think its doable as a thesis project, i mean it would definitely be impressive, but you might want to try and do something a little less ambitious.
[/ QUOTE ]
Any suggestions? The only reason I've thought of UT was because of the vast modding resources out there for it, the fact that the Unreal Engine was used for Lineage II, and the like.
BTW: Your dominance war entry was freaking awesome. Definately an interesting take on how a necromancer is portrayed.
well for lineage 2 they had a whole team to make things work, for this i would suggest something that already has alot of mechanics you would need. I've heard rumors of people being able to do persistent worlds with NeverwinterNights. Then again you might be able to get away with using unreal, there are a few horror/survival game type mods out there for UT2k4. It all depends, I'm by far not an expert on coding/scripting, but i think to turn UT2k4 into an MMO would take quite a bit of work, and i don't know if thats even possible to do with a mod, definitely do some research on it. you could just do a little coop multiplayer demo of an instance mission, i think that might work. so just restrict yourself to one level and say 4 players or something.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah thats what I was thinking, or more like an onslaught size level that would support up to 32 people. They wouldn't all have to be able to play unique characters, just enough for a demo or something. And I think there is an RPG gametype for UT2k4. *shrugs* I have time to figure it out anyway.
http://www.urbandead.com/
Its quite different to what you're pitching, being more of a play for a few minutes once a day typed thing, but it'd be well worth looking into for reference purposes. It can be quite tense trying to get into a safe place before your action points run out and then hoping that zombies don't come and bash down the door while you're offline.
There is an MMO Survival Horror game of sorts already out there. Its called Urban Dead
http://www.urbandead.com/
Its quite different to what you're pitching, being more of a play for a few minutes once a day typed thing, but it'd be well worth looking into for reference purposes. It can be quite tense trying to get into a safe place before your action points run out and then hoping that zombies don't come and bash down the door while you're offline.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've actually been playing it for quite a while, Guy Montaq in game. Yeah it can be tense sometimes, but not exactly what I'd called Survival Horror. Survival yes...but not quite horror. I'm usually in Dunnell Hills, got eaten when the Shining Ones went on tour, and only recently got revived.
I don't mean to be a pessimist but you might want to consider how much work, any sort of an MMO game is. I don't know how much of a programming background you have, but doing a mod alone is far from trivial. Something that is networked even more so. While unrealscript simplifies things to a degree replication is still fairly tricky along with persistance and everything else that comes along with a MMO game. Considering that you are the only person you might want to consider something that you would be able to complete in a semester/year/etc.