Indecisive Breakin In for Character Modeling.

oXYnary

Ok so like Im back being indecisive as it were. Saw MikeF thread.. For someone that has a traditional background education, but not at a full illustrative versus creative. Some technical, but without the speed or indepth knowledge needed. What's next? I explained before simply sitting alone in a room isnt going to work for me. So I need to go someplace where there are real life mentors.

So, in short where to go? My current choices are:

-If going back to school, a choice between two that are technical ones that will still not fullfill my ability to become a better traditional artist. They will however allow me the portfolio and experience I need to get in. Bad: One doesnt like people focusing on just character modeling. The other teaches it, but doesnt give the depth needed for the student to really understand anatomy beyond some generic ideas.
-Or keep going to a traditional school part time and better refining my traditional skills without being able to learn the fast changing technical ones except by myself. Bad: Experience has shown that I can burn out easily when again working alone.

I have finally realized after all this time that I do want to be specifically a character modeler and texturer. I know, I know this is what most people want to do, and the positions always have too many applicants. So only "the best of the best" should focus on it. That someone entering the field would have better luck becoming president than getting such a position without experience.

I got some good advice the other day on the subject. I was for a time after learning of these hurdles thinking of trying to balance environmental art along with still learning character based skills as so I would have these skills ready when such a position opened. However, this person explained to me that I would be doing a diservice to myself and the employer as my passion and ability to excel would be limited because I would be doing something constantly I was not interested in. That basically I should just focus on where I wanted versus trying to make myself something that had a better chance of getting in.

And look! You finally get to burn me a new one! Examples of where I am..

Sculpture "Figure" Art:
http://www.oxynary.com/portfolio/models/graphics/body.jpg
http://www.oxynary.com/portfolio/models/graphics/pig.jpg
http://www.oxynary.com/portfolio/models/graphics/leg.jpg
http://www.oxynary.com/portfolio/models/graphics/body.jpg
http://www.joyridestudios.com/images/halo2/8_jackal.jpg
(the above action figure was an effort with another sculptor, I did most of the armour details,leg cleanup, and mouth)

Sketches both drawing and sculpture:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57761

3D Models:
http://www.oxynary.com/ftc/
http://www.apprehension.org/gallery/albums/3D-Renders/Roamer_001.jpg
http://www.oxynary.com/downloads/inpeo.jpg (wip also minus character)

Concepts:
http://www.apprehension.org/gallery/albums/Concepts/ion_cannon.jpg
http://www.apprehension.org/gallery/albums/Concepts/heavy_roamer.gif

Where do I want to be? Oh Daz, Joolz, or any of the guys working on UT2k7 level of competance.

shotgun

those sculptures look pretty cool.. looks like they're sitting on a pile of their own doodie

u should take in cosideration that a more traditional school will open you to so many experiences and your creative passion may opt to take a different form than character design. your skillz will expand way more vastly, imo, by doing traditional art rather by strictly learning some software. technique is just technique, different software.. different medium.. it shouldn't dictate what you are creating.
learn how to create in the basic level, i say, and then teach yourself how to be proficient in a chosen medium, focusing on your chosen subject (in your case, character design).

when it comes to ever-changing technology there's no point of restricting yourself to a software cuz your entire creative process will be dependent on the technique. by the time you'll graduate, things will probably be done differently in the industry.

i absolutely think you should go for a more traditional school, learn new stuff, experience, and all time stay focused on your goal. use the school in order to get to the skill level you need to fullfull your goals. your goals and the school's goals will most likely not be in full accordance, no matter where you go, so it's all up to you eventually to reach your own goals. there's always crap in the way, teachers who know jack shit about what you want to do, and -- most sadly -- they usually don't even care.

so no matter where u go it's up to you to meet your own goal (at least you have one..) and you want to find the place that will give you the most. from my personaly experience, even knowledge derived from landscape oil paintings can be invaluebly applied into character design.

Daz

Only you can really figure this out man, but I do have a couple of blunt, honest observations:

I'd be wary of putting the role of character modeler on such a high almost unattainable pedestal as you seem to. Don't get me wrong, it's not usually easy to 'get in', and it's healthy to see it as a difficult road. But there are plenty of character modelers making a living out of the games industry that are just 'OK' in skill level. You don't need to be godlike to make it. That's not meant to put you off aspiring to be godlike in your skills at all. Im just saying that 'making it' aint top gun school or anything. Character modelers are only human.

Im really quite surprised at how good some of your clay work is. Please don't take this the wrong way at all. I just see a lot more talk from you than work :-) So I was quite surprised to see that you have some talent in that area.

You dont have a large, good, body of 3D work.

I tend to agree with Shotgun. Really, traditional Art skill is the root of everything, and software is just technique, and it changes all the time.

oXYnary

Yea. I talked to someone from conceptart tonight (Nova). She helped with making more sense. See I live in a house with 3 other people so having time to work uninterupted is minimal. that and we know to get in the zone while modeling and texturing on the computer can be a longer process than traditional media. I have to get out to get anything done.

Im going to go ahead and see about reserving studio space at the local traditional academy and bringing my desktop into it. The instructor/mentor I am interested in working with there has already said yes. Im not sure the higher ups though will want a computer in a traditional based academy though.

If that doesnt work, than I can always apply for either of these other schools down the line.

Thanks for the feedback!

Rick Stirling

Well, you've decided to be a 3d character modeller and texturer, and posted some work.
None of the digital stuff was characer based.

I think you need to start building and texturing characters, or if you have already done so, show those.

The sculptures are nice, but for a games industry character modelling position I don't see their relevance, except as an epilogue to a portfolio to show that you are skilled in traditional areas.

oXYnary

The relevance is they are both methods of creating three dimensionally. They are both 3D tools in effect.

However, I never claimed that I had a portfolio of characters. But this is where I need to go. It just getting the right environment to begin which it sounds like renting this studio space is the best bet.

Also, you might be surprised some of the studios who have hired sculptors. Its not a apples to oranges. It shows knowledge, and what at least Daz and many others have pointed out that traditional skills should be built before worrying about the technical. Now I must begin both together.

MoP

Yeah, just to echo what Rick said, if you want a character art job, get character models in your portfolio. Don't include non-character stuff unless it's really great or original ... keep the 2d stuff relevent to character work too. For example those anatomical sculptures would be good to include in a portfolio, since they show you know the muscles of the body.
The rest sounds like you have a plan, if you stick to it you should be good to go.

Rick Stirling

I dont think ANY studio would hire someone as a modeller based purely on their ability to sculpt.

Like I said, the sculptures are nice, but they are the ketchup on the chips of your digital models.

oXYnary

I agree. I am confused though why you would being that point up? I was asking for suggestions for my next step to get the character modeling started and giving examples of where I am (I.E. if I needed more traditional background before worrying about creating character models).

BTW Mop, those where made looking at a cadaver..

PaK

Your stuff shows promise dude! Me likes Remember that skeleton you made some years back? that ruled.

Looking at your figures I see some knowledge of anatomy. Your figure work doesnt seem graceful or (using words is hard) or stylized enough to grab my attention and go 'wow, he did something special here'

Even though I'm not a huge Hogarth fan I'd reccomend you lean more in his direction from here onwards. In my opinion you need some stylization in your work to grow some more.

I think you are tackling the first 'real' hump, which is accurate anatomy and proportion. Next piece: exagerate your favoroite part of the body (no laughing) and pose your figures in a way that might draw attention to these proportions.

-R

Ninjas

Your work is fine Oxy. You don't need more schooling.

Seems like you need to work on output. I think your new motto needs to be, "slow and steady wins the race".

I'm rarely "in the zone". I focus on one thing at a time and do it until I'm done. I'm not a workaholic. Your work doesn't have to be perfect either. If you learn how to use a tool you never used before when working on a character, that to me is a success. You need to be honest with yourself too.

Why do you get "burned out". How does it feel, and what gets you to this point? I feel relaxed when I work.

I think it would be fun to do some drills together if you want. Maybe a 100 tri character, as shitty as possible. Fun stuff, with zero stress. Something you can whip out in 15 minutes, you know.

MoP

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BTW Mop, those where made looking at a cadaver..

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Best way to learn! Tully's been doing drawings from cadavers, apparently it brings a whole new level of understanding of anatomy.
I'm still kicking myself for not taking a sketchbook to Gunther von Hagens' Bodyworlds exhibit...

Cthogua

In regards to the sculpture thing. When I first started attending Full Sail a graduate named Jeff Unay came and spoke at the school. If I remember correctly (cause it was like 2 years ago) he said that before he came to Full Sail he had never made any 3D models, however he had many years of traditional sculpture under his belt. He busted his ass while in school learning to model, and by the time he was done with the 14 months he had some awesome models. He got a job at Raven as a modeler for Quake 4, and has since worked for Tippett Studios and Weta. Anyway my point is that his sculpture/fine art background really helped him as he already had an awesome grasp of anatomy and detailing, and a strong sense of 3D design. Are pictures of your sculptures going to get you a job right now...no, but there is enormous benefit to that type of study, and you are already obviously decent at it.

Anyway, I also wanted to say that I can totally sympathise with your dilemma. I came out of school wanting to be a character modeler or concept artist...shortly there after realized that it wasn't going to happen with what I currently had portfolio and experience wise, and that there were just more positions available for environment people. So I tried to do some work along those lines and everything I started I got horribly bored of, and was just lack-luster because it wasn't what I was passionate about. Recently I've allowed myself to accept that it might be alittle more time before I can do what I want, but what I'm interested in/passionate about is what I need to be working toward. If it takes a year or two more of developing my skills and portfolio then so be it..in the mean time I do have a job as a graphic artist which pays the bills, so in some respects I'm doing better than some.

ebagg

Why can't you start as an environmental artist and work your way to character modeling after getting some work?

Tully

Oxynary: I got to palpate my cadavers too! Not nearly as gross as it sounds. Well.. no, wait, it really was. Nothing like poking your finger inside somebody's disembodied knee to learn about structure. So much better for learning than bodyworlds.. though I wish I'd brought my sketchbook for that.

I'd tend to agree with the others. If you want to be a character modeller, you've got to model characters. I'd say spend half the time on the traditional side and half the time on the software, but somebody else might have a better idea of the exact way to divvy up your time.

Zero in on what you want and go for it whole hog. Whether it be a modeller or sculptor, or anything.