My first WIP post ---The T-Rex in High Poly

nickin3d

My first WIP that I've felt comfortable posting and getting feedback. The model is pretty much finished. Next comes the displacement and texture. Let me know what you guys think.

p.s. For those of you that don't know.....if the image appears small....save it to your computer and so you can zoom in and what not.

http://www.filelodge.com/files/room12/305596/rexlp.jpg
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room12/305596/3sidesrexwire.jpg
http://www.filelodge.com/files/room12/305596/3sidesrexsolid.jpg

Tully

Heh, dinosaurs I'm working on a model of an iguanodon just now, myself.

The first thing that strikes me about this is that the whole thing looks as though it's made of a marshmallow. There's little suggestion of underlying anatomy anywhere. The proportion of the various limbs is decent in most of it, but it's lacking a sense of balance and life.

Here's a bit of a paintover. It's easier to explain with drawing than it is with typing Just remember that there's bone and muscle under there.. not just globby flesh, and those bones and muscles are arranged in a logical manner. You need some harder edges.

If you're going to use that many polys, you want to make sure that there is enough detail in your model to justify using them. As it stands, there doesn't appear to be much reasoning there.

Here's a nice little reference picture with skeleton and a silhouette of flesh.

Love the subject, for sure Post updates!

nickin3d

maybe i shoulda posted my images diff. but here's an example of my anatomy. did you look at the high poly pics??? i made the model horizonally erect on purpose...it is my understanding that when this beast gets rigged it's much easier to do so if you have straight lines. maybe someone who knows about rigging can eleborate. this'll be the first one i rig and animate.

MoP

Tully made a very good point, the anatomy and proportions are not correct given what we know about tyrannosaurus rex skeletons and structure.

You're right that it's often easier to put limbs in straighter poses for ease of rigging, but that's not the problem here - the anatomy is inaccurate. You could have a more believable creature without compromising how easy it would be to rig, just by tweaking the shapes that already exist.

Also, your mesh is pretty inconsistent. You have far too many polygons in the arm area, and your edge loops around the legs could make more sense.

It's not a bad model, I just think you need to do more research (look up illustrations, sculptures and museum exhibits of T. Rex) and apply that to how you're modelling.

You should really concentrate on making the "source mesh" as effective and accurate as possible before going on to making a displacement map.

Are you planning on using ZBrush for doing the detail, or some other method for generating a displacement map?

Zergxes

I would consult Tully's paintover again and find some more reference. Tully wasn't calling you out on the pose- but the overal form. The legs are disproportionate, the arms are too far back, the tail shows no protrusion from the hip bone.

Good luck.

nickin3d

I actually did an immense amount of research in preparation. I actually used the model from Jurassic Park 3 for main reference and a dozen or so other pics from here and there....one being a pic I took myself at the Natural History Smithsonian in D.C. See below for the ref pics I pulled out of JP3. I thought the anatomy was pretty close to accurate without killing myself with details that can be fixed with a displacement map. I was really focusing on the placement of bones and muscles more than anything else. I used 3ds Max to create the low poly model, and ZBrush to sculpt the muscles and bones. I plan to use ZBrush to also do the displacement and texture. Not saying anyone is wrong here, but explain to me reasons why the mesh will cause a problem. I understand what your talking about (the high poly count in the arm and the edge loops in the leg) , but I actually did that on purpose and wasn't aware that it really made a significant difference. If it does, than my instructor told me wrong. This is for an advanced modeling class, I am a junior at the Art Institute of Washington, and even though I'm a newbie to the forum...I do have some knowledge of what Im doing. Here are the refs I pulled out of Jurassic Park 3.

Joao Sapiro

well...i agree 100% with mop, and you really make a more consistent source mesh , and if you used those references as you say i think you should study them further.

John Warner

yah common guys, he knows what he's doing. stop trying to help him. *sheesh*

Nick, you're totaly in 3d and that's fabulous. there's not many people who can do what you did and quite frankly, i applaud you. get that displacement on there and show us how it's done!

MoP

OK, since you're gonna be using ZBrush, I can mostly retract my comments about anatomy and stuff from the previous posts, since you can use ZBrush very extensively to that effect pushing major shapes around and sculpting. However, after reading what you said about reference and anatomy and such, I expect to see a VERY accurate Zbrushed mesh!

What I was saying about the polygon distribution (especially in the arm) is what will cause some headaches when you take it into ZBrush. Ideally your source mesh should have fairly consistently-sized polygons before going into ZBrush, since it subdivides the whole mesh each time, so by the time you've subdivided the mesh down to, say, 5 levels - the arms are gonna have more polys in them than the rest of the mesh added together, which is gonna annoy you when working on it, and it's just unnecessary.

It makes far more sense to just make the base mesh with pretty evenly-spread polygon distribution (maybe with more polys in areas of focus, like eyes and mouth), and just use Zbrush to sculpt the anatomical detail in as you go through subdivision levels.

And yeah, if your instructor said that the mesh you have now is acceptable, then yeah, he's right - you can go ahead with the mesh in that state, however like I said you will run into headaches and inconsistencies when ZBrushing, and if your instructor thinks that mesh is "good" for ZBrushing, I'm afraid he/she is a little mistaken - it can be used in ZBrush no problem, but it could be a lot better.

I'm guessing you're pretty new to the whole ZBrush workflow, so even if you don't believe me now, I think you'll find that what I'm saying makes a lot of sense when you do your next 4 or 5 models in Zbrush

I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

Steakhouse

Why do people come here, ask for help, and then get all pissy when people who know their shit speak up?

nickin3d

I do appreciate the help dont get me wrong....im not tryin to come across as shitty. I just have invested quite some time on this model and was hoping for some more positive feedback as well. I am learning as we all are. And sry if I come across as an ass at first...I take alot of pride in my work and that's all (also I might of been in a little bit of a bad mood yesterday, again sorry. I originally created the body, head, and arm, all as seperate parts. Should I reduce the number of polys in the arm by removing uneeded lines?? Also, I think I take a little too much faith in my instructors from time to time. I honestly don't believe that some of them have even spent anytime at all with ZBrush so obviously they wouldn't know. Again, I do appreciate all the feedback I have been getting. Thanks guys. I plan on doing some more work on the model this evening, I'll keep you posted

Jelmer

One thing before you start sculpting. The position of your arms is kinda off. T-rexes have their shoulder blades on their chest. This causes the arms to grow straight from the front of the T-rex. Your arms appear to coming more from the sides then from the front. Also the clamping neutral position of the arms is questionable. Check your jurasic parc 3 model refference to compare. Looking forward to updates.

yeluis

a great anatomical imrpovement since last time. This is looking very cool man. and like Jelmer said those arms are a bit off but seeing how you fixed it before i dont think it will be a biggy fixing that.

CheapAlert

Offtopic, but you should probably dump your av or resize it to 80x80 and optimize it. It's two friggin megabytes big.

Downsizer

Sorry, but you are going to have to take crits a little less personal. It looks like you just traced the reference model in a viewpoint, and did'nt account any actual art talent into it. Try to study edge loop topology and keep refining him before you rush into zbrush. Garbage in means garbage out and you'll have trouble with the subdivisions and rigging. I don't mean to be harsh, but I could pop that model out in an hour or two and i dont have the degree you do. I mostly model mechanical pieces for the government. Put some art into it man, model the basic muscle shapes etc and practice practice practice!

Check out Glen Southern's site for more appropriate reference i'd say: http://www.southerngfx.co.uk/

And just a social warning, take this how you want. No one is going to take you as serious with that avatar and the myspace sig. Build a real portfolio site, and link to the myspace from there perhaps? And break up the renders ffs, get rid of the black wasted space. If you want crits, present it well.

Rhinokey

nick, when i was starting out i took crits a bit personaly also, but then you have to realize, that no one is perfect, and the best way to make your stuff closer to perfect is to throw out all pride and honestly listen,, i mean its obcious from the quality of tullys paint over that she has mad skills of an artist, and has a decent grasp of how a t-rex is asembled,

never take crits personaly, no matter how proud you are of a piece of work, it can always be better,

this is a good start and with an open mind you can push it to excellent.

i have no problem with your avatar, or myspace sig..

yeluis

I think everyone is attached to their own work and its hard when you get harsh crits that point out our faults. You have a great start and I wouldnt take stuf personally. when you come to a forum like polycount for crits you gotta expect the worst. We would all love to hear nothing but more positive comments. but if this were true we would never grow as artists. Just listen to the crits and try to read your answer before you reply. Sometimes things dont come across how you mean them and it only hurts you. keep the progress on this thing coming

John Warner

off topic:

i'm just now starting to realize the extent of my ego and come out of it. the minute you stop being proud of yourself is the minute you'll realize that you can acctualy learn and better yourself. i remember being in grade 10 and thinking 3d logos were cool because i 'knew' 3d. it impressed my classmates. i thought i was smart or good because of that sort of shit. not so. art is nice because every time you do something new you get a smack in the face a few days later when you realize it's abysmal shit. if you can't see your work for what it is then it's going to take an obscenely long time in order to get to where you're going. and as soon as you don't judge comments that are put in your direction, what you can learn from them multiplies a thousand times. do you want to become a good 3d artist or do you want a congradulatory back slapping? if it's the later i'd suggest that an internet forum isn't the best place to recieve therapy.

i really dont mean this to sound cruel but it's important. 'nick in 3d'? people have a tendancy to utterly associate with something they enjoy and part of that process is to claim that you're an athority on the subject. there is nothing more HORRIBLE than this if you want to learn. i keep making this same mistake reguardless, but i'm getting better.

on topic:

that dino is certainly a good start, but it needs a lot more work. the anatomy is wrong in many areas and could be fixed if you got a hold of some reference and acctualy tried to understand it. the arms are a great example. it's not okay to have the arms comming out of the generaly correct area, they've got to be correct. if they're jutting out strangely it's going to kill the piece. the coments Jelmer gave you is a great example of the level of understanding nessisary to make every section of this beautiful. right now, however, almost ever section, from the smooth, fragile brow, to the flat, straight, undefined legs, speaks of quick gestural expression of a form hat you haven't taken the time to quite understand completely. you really do have to have and understanding why what elements are where they are in order to re-create them..

take your time. that mouth is so thin and fragile. i totaly remember making stuff like that and it's PROBABLY because you're not chunking small enough. learn to enjoy modeling JUST the mouth, focus on a bit at a time, and express things properly. everything has a mass. shapes fit into each other. learn to enjoy this.

that's just my 2 cents, from where i stand now.