Nintendo DS Racingscene

katzeimsack

started to make a ds specs gamescene


reflektions, glow etc. are modeled and no fancy gfx

c&c please

hawken

Hiya, looking sharp!

Theres some DS specs in the contests and challenges part of this forum that you might find usefull.

I'll have to burst your bubble about the glows, DS can't do faded alpha. Alpha maps are 2 colour. (well, often pure magenta)

KDR_11k

Can it do additive blending?

master of unlocking

No. Sadly the DS cannot do additive blending.

And actually, the DS CAN do faded alpha. Just without additive blending.

KDR_11k

That's strange because the GBA and the DS's 2d mode can...

master of unlocking

Trust me. It cannot do additive blending. I WISH it could because my particle effects would look orgasmic.

katzeimsack

fine, than everything is ok, there is no addinitive rendering used
I will ad some environement probs on thuesday..

master of unlocking

btw, the DS can read both quads and tris. So most likely, you polycount is lower than you think. Excellent work btw. I love the choice of color and shading.

TelekineticFrog

Master of Unlocking is correct, DS can do alpha's that fade. I work on DS titles. Alphas are never additive, nor can they be. (hardware restriction) They are always multiplicitive. DS also has issues with Z sorting of alphas that you have to be careful with unless you like random selections for visibility. Usually on alphas I use Nintendo's own targa compression which is NNS Targa. This allows for two formats a3i5 which is 16 color channels for alpha and 32 colors and a5i3 which is 32 color channels for alpha and 16 colors. Otherwise I use targa files only and mostly 4/4 compressed with 256 colors or less for palette. The car looks great by the way. I've been modeling only cars and some environment props for the past few months. We've been using 128x128 maps for most of the cars and a few are using 256 x 256 currently (ones that take up almost the entire screen) but that may change to lower maps as the map size is proving to be a bit too big even in those cases. Another thing is only paying attention to the polycount of the geometry actually visible to the camera. Some of my cars run upwards of 2000 triangles, yet only about 700 are being rendered on screen at any given frame. You do see the full 2000 but not all at once. Other cars that appear with more than one on screen often hover around the 700 triangle mark or so and only see about 250-300 rendering on screen at any given frame.

Toomas

The car is looking really cool, maybe only crit would be the back of the side window which is too jaggy.

TFrog could you please give an estimate of how much textured polys DS can render and whats the maximum total texture space per scene?

katzeimsack

after work I will post al little update
but I have a question, is the nintendo ds able to render vertexshaded models? I won't use it anyway, but it interest me..

Mark Dygert

Looking great! and no I don't think it can, atleast I haven't seen it done yet.

KDR_11k

I think I've seen Sonic Rush use vertex lighting...

master of unlocking

The DS CAN do vertex lighting. It's just a question of if your coder can.

Mark Dygert

With such low poly counts I can understand why most people wouldn't want to use it. Still its the little system that could, it keeps suprising me with what it can do. While I keep getting disapointed with the PSP and what people WON'T do on it, like make games...

katzeimsack

Much to do, but I wanted to show something

I will addust the color+brightness when everything is finished, otherwise it would take too long..

hawken

very nice! We have the DS screen size templates in the challenge forums if you need to see what it looks like squeezed down!

[ QUOTE ]
Still its the little system that could, it keeps suprising me with what it can do

[/ QUOTE ]

VIG, it's the little system that CAN. DS is hardly going on the road of the Dreamcast. If anything, I would see the PSP dropping out of the scene before the DS.

katzeimsack

I have already see them

that was one reason why I started my little project

Mark Dygert

hawken, I hear ya. I was making referance to the childerns book "The Little Engine That Could". In my eyes the DS is already a succes with Animal crossing, Advance Wars 3, Nintendogs, MarioDS and the entire back catalog of games I have for the GBA. Any games that come out after this (like Kingdom Hearts) will be icing on the cake. My wife and I litteryly seal the system away from the other person just to play. To be fair I got the PSP and she got the DS, so I put a DS on my Xmas list.

I see Sony not willing to let the PSP die even though they should hang thier head in shame and admit defeat as a gaming system. They are only whoring the PSP out with movies and touting it as a hefty MP3 player. Just what I need a 40lb brick to carry around, oh wait I have a nano, its so light I always forget its there. The PSP BARELY fits in my pocket and I have to tighten my belt a notch or it pulls my pants right off.

They did just release Armored Core for the PSP which I might pick up. It hasn't been used in so long I wonder if it still works Because it has such a big screen they do this blur/internaced frames effect to try to mask the low FPS and it really annoys me but it makes for good screenshots because you don't get that blur. Something tells me based on the shots I see of armored core for the PSP there will be plenty of that.

Joshua Stubbles

Eh? Oh please. Animal Crossing? Nintendogs? I'm sorry, but those are pathetic. The DS does in fact have a few great games (Castlevania, Advance Wars), but to say it's superior to PSP is ridiculous.
I only use the PSP as a gaming system, not a mp3 player or movie player (except for long trips). I have gotten much more play time from my PSP than my DS, for sure. I've got 9 games for my PSP and only 3 for my DS. Nintendo simply doesn't have great software for the system (if you're older than 13, that is), imo.

BTW Katz - looks great. Can't wait to see it completed

Cubik

Please turn someone else pimping post into a console war, it's always fucking great.

Well made car, that building looks a little out of place if you compare it to your background, maybe you should try and match its texture to one of the skyscrapers in the backdrop.

hawken

maybe we should stick to GD anyhow sorry to hijack your thread katzeimsack

rollin

zeig halt amal das auto von vorn!

Joshua Stubbles

[ QUOTE ]
Please turn someone else pimping post into a console war, it's always fucking great.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh calm the hell down. I told him his work looked great.

Steve Schulze

Hey telekentic frog, have you got any literature on these Nintendo brand targas? I don't know if we use them here or not, but its always nice to be able to get in the coders good books by giving them new toys to play with.

Badname

Wow dude that is super cool. I'm also doing some ds dev stuff.
Are you just makeing the art or also planning on makeing it a homebrew game? Oh btw could u post wire and texture map, would help me quite a bit

katzeimsack

My company is on official ds devoloper, but I work on PC games. Therefore I don't know how to do make a ds game or get objekts into it

Badname

Check this out http://www.neoflash.com/compos/compo05_files/apps/md2_loader-Ethos.zip
if i'm right it allows you to view your .md2 model ON your DS!!
would be cool to see the car, make some fotos! Oh wait maybe u dont have the devises to run homebrew on the DS :O

katzeimsack

I don't have ds, eventhough I am a Nintendo fanboy

Badname

holy shit thats cool , man you should realy hook up with some programmer to put this on the ds

katzeimsack

thanks



I will realease this scene when I am finished, hopefully someone has the skills and the time to get it on the ds

rooster

really like your road texture man, any chance of seeing the flats?

Toomas

Looks amazing, but can DS do the reflection part?

Matabus

[ QUOTE ]
Looks amazing, but can DS do the reflection part?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reflection is faked.

Zergxes

Really nice work! I had an idea for a DS game, but then I imagine everyone does.

What were you thinking about for the other screen, an overhead map or something else?

Steve Schulze

[ QUOTE ]
The reflection is faked.

[/ QUOTE ]Fake or not I don't think theres any way you could pull off that effect on the DS. It can't even handle texture filtering much less fancy effects like that.

katzeimsack

there is no texturefiltering... I even didn't use vertexshading, which ist possible on the ds!

The effekt is possible, it'S only a textur with alphachannel and some polygons under it.


:P

p.s. I will upload all resources when I am fiished, so jes you will be able to see the falts

Joshua Stubbles

Very cool, katz. Looks a dozen times better than the Asphalt GT game. Sexay!

Jeff Parrott

Ditto was Vassago said. Looks real nice given the limits. What's going on the other screen though?

Matabus

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The reflection is faked.

[/ QUOTE ]Fake or not I don't think theres any way you could pull off that effect on the DS. It can't even handle texture filtering much less fancy effects like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's just geometry with an alpha channel mirrored underneath I assume. Correct me if I'm wrong here, Katze.

*edit

D'oh, I just saw that you answered him.

rollin

Vassago
you should call him "katze" not katz.. i mean.. you also don ´t say ca but cat

whatever, nonsense

wheres the frontview? ... 8)

katzeimsack

The scene is finished 8)
I only were to lazy to make screenshots
Therefore, you will get your fucking frontview tonight

katzeimsack

here are the final screens
ds resolution



full beauty


1100 triangulated polygons 2 128² and one 256² texture with some free space for additional cars

comments please

CMB

Let's see some flats.

Wells

she's beautiful!

Steakhouse

As nice as it looks it likely wont render out like that. We've been pulling some tests at work with a DS and for some reason the textures always end up washing out horribly. If you're working with a solution to this though I would love to hear it.

katzeimsack

Don't know the ds very well, but I haven'T rendered anything.
What you see is a viewport screenshot..

Steakhouse

Gotcha. We've been running into a texture memory problem that really just washes out everything. I'm not on the project personally, but it's been giving the devs some real headaches.

katzeimsack

really strange, someone else told me that the ds can'T even filter textures

peppi

Really cool stuff kis! Any chance to see some texture flats and wireframe renders?

katzeimsack

will show them after christmas