leprocy

Ruz

man, i feel like that times.When it comes to 3d art I often feel I see so clearly what is the right path, but getting others to agree is the hard part.
I really fancy getting out of games and in to the film industry

KDR_11k

You mean you feel like you got lepers? The disease kills your nervous system, the rest is just side effects of no longer feeling anything.

Asthane

[ QUOTE ]
man, i feel like that times.When it comes to 3d art I often feel I see so clearly what is the right path, but getting others to agree is the hard part.
I really fancy getting out of games and in to the film industry

[/ QUOTE ]

...so you can be one person on a team of twenty and have even less freedom to express yourself and get things changed? :P

Ruz

well it probably more complex than that, but after a while even thought he most determined can get a bit weary of bashing ones head against a brick wall

Daz

Not sure what you mean Ruz. You're talking about managers not trusting their talents expertise perhaps? That's one of the biggest reasons Im getting out of you know where. But Im not sure that you'll find more 'say' in the film industry. The good news however, is that in film people tend to come up through the ranks, so CG supervisors really know their shit, but in certain large games companies, middle management often come in from unrelated industries. I once had to explain to my Art managers what LOD's were for instance ;-)

Ruz

yeah, you got my drift Daz. Lets say for example I notice that a fingernail on a model hand is wrong or the index finger is the wrong length, I have to go through seven tiers of bullshit to get it changed. its infuriating. perhaps I am just spoiled after 5 years looking at polycounters work.
perhaps if the mountain won't move I should try another mountain

'the rest is just side effects of no longer feeling'
anything.

sounds about right too

swampbug

I have that feeling too sometimes Ruz. :F

Ruz

yeah, but I feel almost alone here, so its not good.
one or two good guys on my team,but voice seems very thin these days.
I am a pretty deternmined SOB , but even my patience is wearing thin. i am thinking looking to find work in london in films.
Its odd that I am normally very patient and quiet when it comes to art , but have become very angry of late. ie the more I am 'sidelined' the more I feel bitter and angry.

Ruz

hmm I feel as though i should be going back down the creative route.
i made a few animated shorts before getting in to games. I would n't mind trying that again, but the thing is I need money to survive, so its either be brave and do what you like or take the 'easy' route. ie a good salary, but then take all the stuff that comes with it

JKMakowka

I really doubt it will be much different working on a Blockbuster movie... so maybe start your own company, or join a small indi one? The hirachy levels will be much closer to non existant there.

thomasp

film industry isn't all about working on blockbuster movies in huge pipelines, there's lots of smaller and more specialized companies who have a hand in this as well - and there are films requiring fx work that don't advertise their effects over story.

seems i have a film job (albeit classic "blockbuster" scheme) lined up next, too i'll be glad to not having to deal with certain annoying types of people you run across in games at many places. but let's see how easy it is to work with directors and studio hierarchies before deciding where the grass is greener...

Daz

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I really doubt it will be much different working on a Blockbuster movie

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Well, speaking to friends at places like Sony and Digital Domain, I believe it can be and is for the most part. My reasoning behind that belief is the 'cg supervisor' model. In film and fx, animators and modelers might eventually become cg supervisors. i.e leads in their fields. They lead the noobs, and the cycle continues. I actually think there is a better career path in film and more chance of progression.
However, back to my point. In contrast, a lot of big games companies ( not all of them I might add ) tend to instead adopt the middle management model. So your immediate superior might be an Art manager or a producer, and in all likelihood, they haven't 'been in the trenches' and once did the job that you do now. In short, they don't know enough about this thing that we do. This in my experience can lead to tremendous frustrations and fuckups and I think its by far the most broken thing at the larger games companies. The talents expertise doesn't seem to be trusted, and instead the producers and Art managers start to make calls that are dangerously uninformed. Unfortunately it seems to be an evergrowing model too. Don't get me wrong, there's a need for Art managers, I just think they should have once been Artists themselves and not have just come in sideways from an unrelated industry. I see a growing trend of managers being hired purely as managers of people, but without any technical knowledge of how we make games, and I think that's an absolute disaster. Heck, I know it is. I've seen it with my own eyes. SouL knows what I'm talking about.

This is all of course just my own personal perspective, and as such might well be out of whack with how the team org. works within the industry at large.

Ruz

I thjnk i would settle for a film company that takes pride in their character art. I suppose in movies the quality has to be higher anyway.I could n't see much 'bodged' stuff slipping through the net.
I agree with what you are saying there Daz, its easy to manage all the creativity out of an artist.
Its one thing having a hierarchy , but another thing when they know virtually nothing about a particular specialism and point blank refuse to take any other points of view on board.
I think in films I am pretty sure they would all be better artists then myself, so i could learn lots of stuff too.

Still ther are lots crazy fuckers around in films too, met this guy for an interview a feew years back and he was absolutley a twat( not a cunt) but a twat

Rick Stirling

Can I point out as Devils Advocate to Dazs post about middle managers being brought in with no art experience, that it can be very frustrating and just as harmful to work with a manager who has the job knowledge but no people/time/project management skills.

Course, then you get the ones with no knowledge about anything...