Oh no, what you guys are saying isn't brining me down at all. I just wanted to know more about what you're saying. Learning from those with more experience, I guess.
I know that the employer has no obligation to let me be creative, and I have no obligation to stay there (uhhh...unless I signed a contract). I know there are places that want the employees to be more than drones, they just need to be found. If I'm in a situation I'm not happy with, I'll do what I can to change it, one way or another, be it talking to my superiors or finding something better. If there really is nothing out there, then that's unfortunate.
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Ror, sometimes I wonder if your not the most pessimisitic person I have encountered (yes even beyond me). I mean if that how you truly feel, then why the bloody hell spend so much of your waking life at it? There are other "jobs" that pay better and require less of your time and stress.
Ah hell, Im probably reading into it too much. Answer this though. What is your self passion these days?
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well i can't speak for ror, but i do it because i like doing it, is is a job and i knowtommorow i may be told to make something opposite the way i would personaly choose to make it. but still, i'm still making fucking video games and getting paid for it. its a freaking dream job come true for me, i never expect to get any say in the way things are made, if something hapens and i do.. then BONUS! " there is a lot of jobs that would pay better, but i've never dreamed of doing any of those,
yea, sorry. Its dealing with Ror whole cynical outlook (ie more than this thread).
Both Employer and Employee both sometimes forget what a job is is hiring of someone else to do something that another person cannot or doesnt have the time to. The specifics of that something can vary greatly. When you get into creative fields though, its inherent that turning a specific vision into reality cannot work the same as creating a spreadsheet for someone else. The ideal that the employer wants the employee to create is always up for interpretation.
I guess in short, its not black and white when you get into creative fields. Our ability to communicate left sided ideas with our right to others just usually doesnt hold up that well. In doing so, all you both the employee and employer do is create uneeded stress and anxiety in one another.
That being said, there is something with having a consistent vision. However, it takes a very specific person who can translate both sides of our brains with communication to make this happen. Otherwise the firing and quiting occur.
Thanks or the demo link Daz, tried it out a little. I will do some more tommorrow once I pull my gamepad out of the closet.
I've worked with Sato , of Silent Hill fame, and boy, he's got some serious stories to tell about working for games companies over there. Months spent sleeping at the office, and yes, people literally commiting suicide over work pressures and failures.
I don't see my viewpoint as pessimistic, I'm actually incredibly optimistic and on a career high right now at Epic on Gears of War and UT7.
My point is simply that the creativity comes from the imaginative way in which I interpret and then articulate someone elses ideas. That's my job.
When I start to think I'm owed creative freedom I wander into Milton's territory of man making a hell out of heaven in his own mind and then I go downhill and start thinking I'm hard done by and act like a primma donna.
Everyone else I have ever worked with is the same and the longer one works in the industry the closer to accepting this truth, most of us come.
There are fights worth fighting and everything else, by comparison, seems like posturing.
What I was speaking out against was the primma donna posturing side of the arguement which Poop was waving the flag for. He was not acting like a primma donna, I have reasons to beleive that he may have, in the past , at other companies, but I likewise beleive he's been maturing this year and is starting to challenge some of his old viewpoints but he does however stand closer still in philosophy to his old viewpoints rather than the new ones he is travelling toward.
(does ANYONE really care to hear me elaborate as much as this?)
So, I tried to come straight to the point and remind the general thrust of this thread that we are employees first and artists 2nd and thats what we agree to when we sign on the line that is dotted ( coffee is for closers ).
I like being an artist as much as the next guy, maybe more, how does one measure these things anyway. I'll sacrifice my individual ideas in a heartbeat for the sake of the team, for the sake of the project and for the sake of shipping a quality product in a timely fashion that sells well and ensures I get the chance to learn from some more of my mistakes on the next project and become a better artist!
I think too many times people who are younger still in the industry get caught up on the notion that we are meant to be creative and mistake that for being free to do what they want too much. Then people who are hobbyists here start backing them up and before we know it we collectively start espousing a completly uninformed bullshit philosophy that infects us and is then, virus like, carried into companies later by those of us who break into the industry with a big chip on their shoulder and thinking they know more because they came from the community.
So I always try to speak out against that trend when I have the time to spare or am insensed enough to waste the time I could spend working on fun stuff like art.
I hope that's clear, I don't want to split hairs and try to further explain my points and hey Poop, you're alright m8 ok? I'm not trying to have a go at you here, in case you think I am, I'm really saying that I think you've rethought some of your views this year and I think thats a good thing for , for anyone!
Just found a copy of Nauts last eve.For some reason it was sold out in my area since release Anyway, I'm lovin it so far. I was so glad to finally play another 3D platformer that felt solid. Raz's jump feels good and not floaty like some other 3d platformers or 3d games period. the new 3d castlevania comes to mind, i turned that shit off and took it back as soon as it loaded and I hit the jump button once. I'm looking forward to getting more into nauts, but I also bought Mario and Luigi:Partners in time, so I'm constantly going back and forth between them. The art direction in Nauts is great and second only to the world of ICO, SOC, and the Panzer dragoon series IMO.
had to go and get it just on this reccomendation, probably half way through it, playing with and without the kids, and its definatly been worthwhile so far (but a bit hard for me sometimes, being used to just shooting everything in sight). So thanks
Replies
I know that the employer has no obligation to let me be creative, and I have no obligation to stay there (uhhh...unless I signed a contract). I know there are places that want the employees to be more than drones, they just need to be found. If I'm in a situation I'm not happy with, I'll do what I can to change it, one way or another, be it talking to my superiors or finding something better. If there really is nothing out there, then that's unfortunate.
Ror, sometimes I wonder if your not the most pessimisitic person I have encountered (yes even beyond me). I mean if that how you truly feel, then why the bloody hell spend so much of your waking life at it? There are other "jobs" that pay better and require less of your time and stress.
Ah hell, Im probably reading into it too much. Answer this though. What is your self passion these days?
[/ QUOTE ]
well i can't speak for ror, but i do it because i like doing it, is is a job and i knowtommorow i may be told to make something opposite the way i would personaly choose to make it. but still, i'm still making fucking video games and getting paid for it. its a freaking dream job come true for me, i never expect to get any say in the way things are made, if something hapens and i do.. then BONUS! " there is a lot of jobs that would pay better, but i've never dreamed of doing any of those,
Both Employer and Employee both sometimes forget what a job is is hiring of someone else to do something that another person cannot or doesnt have the time to. The specifics of that something can vary greatly. When you get into creative fields though, its inherent that turning a specific vision into reality cannot work the same as creating a spreadsheet for someone else. The ideal that the employer wants the employee to create is always up for interpretation.
I guess in short, its not black and white when you get into creative fields. Our ability to communicate left sided ideas with our right to others just usually doesnt hold up that well. In doing so, all you both the employee and employer do is create uneeded stress and anxiety in one another.
That being said, there is something with having a consistent vision. However, it takes a very specific person who can translate both sides of our brains with communication to make this happen. Otherwise the firing and quiting occur.
Thanks or the demo link Daz, tried it out a little. I will do some more tommorrow once I pull my gamepad out of the closet.
OH BTW Doesnt Japan have a high suicidal rate. ?
My point is simply that the creativity comes from the imaginative way in which I interpret and then articulate someone elses ideas. That's my job.
When I start to think I'm owed creative freedom I wander into Milton's territory of man making a hell out of heaven in his own mind and then I go downhill and start thinking I'm hard done by and act like a primma donna.
Everyone else I have ever worked with is the same and the longer one works in the industry the closer to accepting this truth, most of us come.
There are fights worth fighting and everything else, by comparison, seems like posturing.
What I was speaking out against was the primma donna posturing side of the arguement which Poop was waving the flag for. He was not acting like a primma donna, I have reasons to beleive that he may have, in the past , at other companies, but I likewise beleive he's been maturing this year and is starting to challenge some of his old viewpoints but he does however stand closer still in philosophy to his old viewpoints rather than the new ones he is travelling toward.
(does ANYONE really care to hear me elaborate as much as this?)
So, I tried to come straight to the point and remind the general thrust of this thread that we are employees first and artists 2nd and thats what we agree to when we sign on the line that is dotted ( coffee is for closers ).
I like being an artist as much as the next guy, maybe more, how does one measure these things anyway. I'll sacrifice my individual ideas in a heartbeat for the sake of the team, for the sake of the project and for the sake of shipping a quality product in a timely fashion that sells well and ensures I get the chance to learn from some more of my mistakes on the next project and become a better artist!
I think too many times people who are younger still in the industry get caught up on the notion that we are meant to be creative and mistake that for being free to do what they want too much. Then people who are hobbyists here start backing them up and before we know it we collectively start espousing a completly uninformed bullshit philosophy that infects us and is then, virus like, carried into companies later by those of us who break into the industry with a big chip on their shoulder and thinking they know more because they came from the community.
So I always try to speak out against that trend when I have the time to spare or am insensed enough to waste the time I could spend working on fun stuff like art.
I hope that's clear, I don't want to split hairs and try to further explain my points and hey Poop, you're alright m8 ok? I'm not trying to have a go at you here, in case you think I am, I'm really saying that I think you've rethought some of your views this year and I think thats a good thing for , for anyone!
r.
"It's my club, it's my money, and I will splash the pot whenever the fuck I please."
In a nutshell, if it isn't your studio, know there are as many limits to what you want to do as the person in charge wants there to be.
tpe