Get ready q4!
polycounter lvl 18
Hi everybody
This is my latest project. I'm taking my first shot at some nextgen modeling and so far I'm about done with the lo-res version currently at 2904 polys. I'd appreciate some C&C on the anatomy and perhaps if someone wants to give me some advice on how to break the mesh into a high poly version I'd appreciate even more. I haven't done any character work in high poly before.
I'm not done with the face yet so I'll show that later.
I'm using wings for modeling both high and low and then I'll zbrush the final details.
Things I' aware of:<ul type="square">[*]boring pants topology[*]weird bulky solar plexus (I'm planning on doing minor anatomical deformaties)[/list]
So crit away all - thank you very much
*** EDIT: Updates below ***
This is my latest project. I'm taking my first shot at some nextgen modeling and so far I'm about done with the lo-res version currently at 2904 polys. I'd appreciate some C&C on the anatomy and perhaps if someone wants to give me some advice on how to break the mesh into a high poly version I'd appreciate even more. I haven't done any character work in high poly before.
I'm not done with the face yet so I'll show that later.
I'm using wings for modeling both high and low and then I'll zbrush the final details.
Things I' aware of:<ul type="square">[*]boring pants topology[*]weird bulky solar plexus (I'm planning on doing minor anatomical deformaties)[/list]
So crit away all - thank you very much
*** EDIT: Updates below ***
Replies
will a gun be tagged INTO his arm?
Thing is though, usualy you develop your highpoly mesh and then build the low poly around that because you just dont exactly know how the peices might have to fit together untill you've accualy done it. Then you have to pick the best way to represent that in a normal maped low polygon model.
As far as breaking things up in the model. Thats pretty much up to you. But if I were doing it each object including the armor pieces would be be different objects right up untill the final stage where you have to render to texture. Then you can merge them and throw a turbosmooth on the object.
Working on a highpoly model can be very daunting and also extreamly time consuming. Just start somewhere and keep chipping away at that digital block of marble.
Things to work on:
- His crotch bothers me, it is too tiny. He must have a pretty small package to stuff it all into that tiny cod piece.
- The boots are very flat soled, like they are a Q2 or HL1 model. You have enough polys to have a heal like most boots have.
@cheapalert: haha! Great idea but in kinda interferes with my plan on making a MP model. I may do a mechanical arm now so thanks.
@neo: thanks for the tips as you can see I've begun chipping away. Not much yet. I'm using the lowpol as a base then I can readjust the lowpoly later. I was planning on breaking up the model and render the seperate pieces into a common map. Perhaps I won't even reassemble the model if that proves to be too complicated.
@vig: thanks for the crotch tip I've given him a new and better package.
I'll take your suggestions into account but the boots may still stay very simple.
helmet small update:
Still looking for crits or advice.
***EDIT: Updates below***
I'll appreciate any advice I can get because basically I'm doing a hi-res model for the first time.
Thanks
Thanks man for the tip
EDIT: (I'm sure I come off sounding like a dick, I hope you can look past that ans see what I mean)
Ok had some time to come up with something more than a comment that doesn't help.
- 1, This looks like high poly goodness you should shoot for this level of detail or better. Really good stuff, it shows you can do what you need to, keep up the good work!
-2, Knee pads? Straps what are these? They need to be defined. If they are kneepads I think they should be thicker and have more detail like kneepads found in the real world.
http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/images/riot-kneepads.jpg
http://www.6msoft.com/john/PD-kneepads.jpg
http://www.war-toys.com/figures/jason/kneepads.jpg
Notice most of the real world kneepads have those rivet/holes around the kneecap? Those help tell the viewer, this is a kneepad. (Instead of a bandanna)
The pants on this character are really baggy and even if he was a muscle bound guy his knees wouldn't be this fat and the straps wouldn't be that far out. Maybe he stuffs his pants with newspaper or meat by-products, I don't know?
-3, The pouches are looking good! But they suffer from the same baggy pants issue the knee pads do. They would look fine if he was in Zero-G. But since Quake4 has gravity these pouches need to not float. They need to conform more to his legs and "hang" if they are not strapped to his legs. I don't know if you have ever worn pants with pockets that big and if you have, did you ever fill them that full of stuff? They "hang" not "hover" and they are really really heavy.
Conveying weight is just as important as making sure the model has two arms, two legs and a head. When you model pockets full of stuff you also have the responsibility to model the weight it represents.
Also make sure to shut off the wire frame view and check your detail. If your model suddenly looses 90% of its detail when you turn off. The wire frame you have some work to do. People won't see the wire frame when you are done, so don't get caught up in thinking you have a ton of detail because of it.
-4, I'm sure this is something you haven't gotten around to detailing yet, but what is it? Is it part of body armor? A tumor? An alien about to burst out? what is it?
If its body armor, its too organic and needs some defined edges like what you did with the pouches and the belt. If it's body armor its in a VERY bendy spot on a human, you need to make sure he can still pick up things off the ground, tie his shoes and more importantly fight, without giving himself the Heimlich.
In general the upper body looks like he is bare chested without a shirt or armor? I'm pretty sure this is just because you haven't gotten around to detailing it yet, but make sure to define the muscles more. Right now he is very "stuffed sock-ish". This could be a problem when you go to detail. Like the pants where, things are kind of balloony and inflated without defined areas. Which could lead to problems later. If your foundation is off your building won't sit right.
-5, It looks like you might be working off an idea but not a specific concept? This could be dangerous as you go about adding detail. Like I mentioned before you have a foundation, its of a shirtless guy that has baggy pants as you progress it is going to be harder to change that. If you work off a concept it is easier to block out the big details (besides arms, legs head) you will need later. Details such as body armor, shoulder pads, clips and harnesses, pouches, zippers things of that nature.
If the pants are made out of cloth I would address the pouches being attached to the leg like this. If they are ment to be attached to hard plastic or metal then we have other issues to talk about.
they're vaguely defined because you really don't have a lot to go on from the original source art! being extremely literal in your translation of the character ends up with a very mushy, loose rendition, ironically when what you're going for is a faithful interpretation. because the original character was designed and executed with the original engine's limitations in mind, you really do have to start from scratch, more or less. you're going to need concept art that is based on the original character but that has the blanks filled in to compensate for the very low resolution of the original character, both model and texture wise. otherwise you're going to end up with a very sharply defined blurry, mushy character.
another thing I notice is that you're modeling everything in the same piece/mesh, which is really a waste of time for normalmapped stuff.
Don't hesitate to separate everything and more than that, make all the fine detail non-contiguous, this will help you a lot putting loads of detail and dealing with different materials.
i.e. : I'd separate the chest to build the armor separately, then do the same with gloves. once all my base model will be completed I'll create a set of details (rivets, holes, etc) that I'll go completely crazy with and put all over the model. don't forget you are'nt limited in polygons, but the more polys, the longer the normal rendering will take, and depending on the texture size, an über-definition of a muscle will less help your model than details like straps, buckles, rivets...though always keep your normal map resolution in mind, that would be sad to add fine detail and end up with them not showing up on the normal map because they are too small.
Also remember that you will only have a specular intensityand color to show up your different materials, so you should eb able to tell directly on the model which materials are used, only with the specular level applied.
@vig: First, thanks for taking your time to write all that stuff down, it's nice to have someone do a breakdown and provide lots of good crits.
The thing that puzzled you about the pants are actually seams modeled in, he's got no pads. I wanted to make some pants which were baggy and made out of a very dense material which have layers of different fabric. I haven't provided any smoothed images so here's the first showing his pants so far. He hasn't got a newspaper in his pants haha so I think I'll do some inward bouldges which illustrates this.
The bags are meant to be part of some modular system that you click-on to the pants. I'll add some weight there you're right.
And the bump on his belly is in fact a tumor, good guess
@gauss: Thanks gauss I get what your saying and yes I've been working without a concept, which I seem to do pretty much, but I'll definitely make some doodle sketches of what I want to achieve with the torso and face especially. I've been kind of hesitant regarding the detailing because I'm still not clear about what I want and my test sessions in zbrush ended up with having detail very evenly distributed all over the model. I don't like that. I need to be more clear about what I want and what areas should have more refined detail so it doesn't come out so vaque. Thanks
@vahl: At first I didn't know much about modeling hipoly or rendering normal maps and I thought rendering intersecting parts would create coarse seams in the normal map the same way it would show on the model. I'm a lot wiser now thanks to the q4 sdk and from referencing your doom3 player model
I figure I'll end up with a 250.000 tri model. Can I ask you if that's too heavy for a single normal map render?
Thanks guys I've got stuff to work on now and myabe some more questions later, but I feel more secure now. Expect some heavy updates next week. It's getting late here so I'll turn in now. Thanks again
BTW: I canceled the skull head
The indents in the cehst is where I plan to add to big valves. C&C welcomed