Epic VP slams Nintendo Revolution controller
polycounter lvl 18
Can't see this posted here anywhere...
Mark Rein's thought on the funky TV remote controller thingy
http://gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=12577
He also doesn't miss the chance to put the boot into EA while he's at it.
Mark Rein's thought on the funky TV remote controller thingy
http://gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=12577
He also doesn't miss the chance to put the boot into EA while he's at it.
Replies
I'm not a fan of the Revolution controler, either. I'm happy with the GC-esque plugin for it, though
I agree that the PS3 looks a bit wonky, but it might actually be comfy. Just have to wait and see.
That absolutely rocks my world. Awesome.
Don't kid yourself - you're going to see more gimmicky, crappy, cheap, I-wish-I-hadn't-bought-it gimmick games based around that controller than you can ever possibly imagine.
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In an article written not too long ago about the Revolution's controller, a good point was made that, "A gimmicky game is really just another name for a new core game mechanic that hasnt been polished." I think that's true, for the most part. Of course there'll be a lot of gimmicky games that don't have much substance, but those games will be refined and evolve into great games with innovative ways of interaction. I think I'd rather put up with a bunch of gimmicky games that spawn innovative new forms of gameplay, than have rehashed game mechanics.
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Rein then conducted a quick audience survey to find out how many people present owned a GameCube - and found that rather a large number of hands were raised.
He then asked everyone who also owned a PS2 or Xbox to put their hands down - and concluded that under ten per cent of the audience were Cube owners only.
"Hard to make a business on less than 10 per cent," Rein said.
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What? This doesn't make any sense. Is he trying to imply that only GameCube owners will buy the Revolution?
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The two controllers are the little wand controller and the other one is a joystick - and it's a joystick with a bunch of ribs under it.
Remember the one that nearly destroyed your thumb on the Dreamcast, and on the N64 remember how after you played a game for a couple of hours you had to suck your thumb for a month? It's that kind of controller.
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No, I've never had that problem.
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he said the Revolution didn't count since "most developers know nothing about the Nintendo system. They haven't gone and announced specs so I can't say."
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Are console generations quantified solely by system specs? Is the GBA considered to be the same generation as the SNES?
In the news today EA makes a stunning announcement of buying Epic Games for a undisclosed amount. "With the power of Epic technology behind us, the skys the limit as far as game development inside EA." This was quoted from Larry Probst, CEO of EA games.
In a unrelated event, Vice President Mark Rein of former Epic Games has retired for personal reasons according to a EA spokesperson
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We had "about" three people on our environment team last year for nba street v3 so I guess we did okay. I wonder how nintendo expects developters to port games to their new cyber wand, we would be twelve buttons short if we wanted to make ssx for the revolution.
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well I doubt they expect ports and whatnot. good call from them really.
But I think we was a bit off base with some of his comments about the Revo controller, having read up on it a bit more I'm really looking forward to a new way to play my games. Yeah, some of them will be very gimmicky, but hopefully there will be those awesome games that Nintendo is known for.
Just because you can get people to play FPS games using the crappy XBOX controller doesn't mean that it is ideal for FPS games. "nothing wrong" except you can barely control your character with it!
I played the N64 until I wore out two controllers and never had a problem with the ergonomics.
A couple of things fall under the heading of nonsense:
What was he trying to say about 10% of the market? What he said had nothing with the current or future market.
Gimmicks games. Sure, whatever.
A number of the things he said count as profound truths:
The PS3 mock-up controller looked retarded, the DC controller did have some ergonomic issues with it, Of course you don't need 300 people to make a game, and we still don't know shit about the Rev (but you could say the same thing about the PS3 since everything Sony says is a lie)
I suppose he is just saying "Buy 360s!" and the reason for that is so they can sell Gears of War. I understand that we are in the business of selling video games but anyone who is dishonest while selling their product loses my respect. I already decided that if I buy a PS3 it will be after I get the Rev and 360 because I'm tired of hearing Sony's bullshit lies. I hope nobody else decides to use these tactics.
when was the last time that epic made a mildly revolutionary game. The last game i remember them making was Unreal. And now they have gears of war, completely uninspired cookie cutter title, with only cutting edge graphics going for it.
He's probably representing people who are very very very close minded. Developing for the nintendo might not be a very profitable business in north america but it's a huge business in japan of which nintendo has a very firm grip.
This guy represent the business, bean counter part of a creative business. It's a similar case everywhere, creative businesses start with a vision and direction and innovation yet as they become larger you eventually get a businessman running the show.
And for god's sakes, i didnt expect him to toot his own horn regarding gear of war and epic in general
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"Our team size is only about 50 per cent higher than it was last generation, and we're making fantastic games. Gears of War [Epic's forthcoming Xbox 360 title] is only about 25 people, and that's smaller than most current-generation game teams."
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I dont think i am interested in his bullshit
It's just my opinion though, i dont mean to offend anyone
For every gamer upset that their new Rev. game is just a gimmick, their will be just as many upset their new PS2 or X360 game is nothing but eye candy.
Their are no absolutes, and no one is ever right about everything. This is just competitive business practices.
But hey, he doesn't have to worry because he knows his cash cow is not the Big N. It's easy to burn bridges you think you never have to cross.
As for playing FPS's with a controller, its total BS to think that a controller is all you need. Why do they sell things like the smart joy so those of us who know better don't have to down grade in performace (that much). I remember playing unreal championship on the Xbox at a party with a bunch of Halo freaks one had the Smart Joy which I used and rocked everyone there. Those people who had only used the controlers for FPS's tried out the smart joy and loved it. Whoever was in that seat was the leader. It's not a perfect translation but it sure beats the cluncky game pads.
Those who think the gamepad controllers are fine are people who just don't know or haven't used better.
r.
Vig, it's nonsense to think that a PC/mouse combo is 100% superior. I've schooled many freinds with a Xbox controller, while they used a JoyFrag (and they're damn good PC gamers). It's all about the person's ability to use the device. If you can't use a controller properly, you'll get your ass kicked, simple as that. Same thing goes for a mouse.
Ror, I couldn't agree more with that statement
What was he trying to say about 10% of the market? What he said had nothing with the current or future market.
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His point may not be clear to you, and some of you may not 'share' his point of view, but that doesnt make it nonesense. It makes alot've sense.
By asking how many people in the croud 'only' have gamecube's it shows you who nintendo's 'base' is. You know, the dude who dresses up like Link and walks around Seattle.
Niche market products panders to a corporations base. This is probably why he pointed this out, aswell...that nintendo's base is only 10% of the people in the audience. if you wanna make a point to an audience...then use them as an example. It's a good tactic in public speaking.
I'm not saying his arguments dont have holes...it's just that this certianly isnt an example of one of them, i think he's making a vaid point.
-R
Pacman was a gimmick game. Super Mario was a gimmick game. Remember dodging in Unreal? Total gimmick. And how about those secondary weapon functions? Gimmick central! Everything that made Unreal stand out from Quake? Gimmicks.
Gimmick = someone else is doing something we aren't, therefore we need to put them down for it or we will look bad and lose business.
Vig, it's nonsense to think that a PC/mouse combo is 100% superior.
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In some games/cases it is, in others it is not. I remember trying to type messages in FF Online with the PS controller, it was SOoOoo much easier than using a keyboard =/
You are right tho, it is about what you are used to. There are a lot of people that haven't tried the keyboard mouse combo because they don't have the chance to. When the only thing you give a kid to play with is rocks, they think rocks are the coolest thing to ever come along.
By asking how many people in the croud 'only' have gamecube's it shows you who nintendo's 'base' is. You know, the dude who dresses up like Link and walks around Seattle.
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It still doesn't mean anything, because a lot of people own more than one console, even if they're more dedicated to a specific console. If he were to ask, "raise your hand if you only own an Xbox" or, "raise your hand if you only own a PS2," he would likely get the same response.
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You are right tho, it is about what you are used to. There are a lot of people that haven't tried the keyboard mouse combo because they don't have the chance to. When the only thing you give a kid to play with is rocks, they think rocks are the coolest thing to ever come along.
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When it comes to FPSs, I'd say it's more than just "what you're used to." A mouse has a definite advantage over a thumbstick. With a mouse, your movements are translated directly to the screen ("x" amount of movement of the mouse translates to "y" amount of movement in the game), while with a thumbstick you're just controlling the direction and speed of the camera.
His point may not be clear to you, and some of you may not 'share' his point of view, but that doesnt make it nonesense. It makes alot've sense.
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10% of a huge market is still pretty huge. It would be like saying "Apple can't have a business strategy, they are too small!". Anyway, if you are talking to the gaming press and 10% have ONLY a Gamecube, those 10% have to be complete Nintendo fanboy nazis (I mean shouldn't they have ALL the consoles? It's their job!). I wonder how many people there had only an XBox. Anyway, why would a business guy pull a number like 10% out of their ass? You know he knows the real numbers. Maybe he is just trying to make a point, or get some audience involvement, but I hardly think he was saying anything factual.
I don't want anyone to mistake what I said earlier. I think the PS3 controller looks stupid, but I don't really care what it looks like since when I play I look at the TV. I'm sure it will function exactly like the duelshock and I have no problem with that.
IMO, the Nintendo controller is in fact, shite.
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Have you actually had a chance to use one?
Though I'll wait to pass final judgement, until I see a game.
"raise your hand if you only own a PS2," he would likely get the same response.
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Nope. the market penetration for 'only ps2 owners is huge. There are figures on gamasutra about this. Most publishers have these figures, that's why we have our game as a ps2 lead sku, even tho it's a lower spec system than the xbox.
Edit:
My producer confirmed hat tehre are 3 times as many PS2's as xbox sales worldwide, and that the vast majority of their polls suggest that most gamers don't own 2 consoles, and of this particular generation of consoles the vast majority of them are PS2's.
-R
It's a pov opinion, vermillion. Much like people saying the PS3 controller is shite. Talk innovation all ya want, waving your hands around the air doesn't sound amazingly fun to me....
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I didn't say anything about innovation, I was just curious if you were basing your opinion on first-hand experience.
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Though I'll wait to pass final judgement, until I see a game.
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That's cool.
Apart from it being total garbage.
*laugh*
Why do you think the dreamcast controller sucked? Because the analog stick was in the wrong place. The gamecube controller suffered from the same problem. The Xbox, Dreamcast and GC controllers all have the analog stick in a less comfortable position.
The PS1 controller was hands down the most comfortable controller that's been made. Why do you think the PS2 used the same design? The PS3 controller will try and be slightly more stylish, but it won't deviate too far from the original PS1 design. The symmetrical placement of the analog sticks, the way they feel and move is what makes that controller design so successful.
Nintendo jumpstarted the videogame industry. Mark Reins wouldn't be VP of Epic if it wasn't for Nintendo. Well if it wasn't for id. If the FPS genre wasn't invented with wolfenstein, I don't know what Epic would be doing now.
Nintendo has done well in it's approach to creating games. They stick to their guns, believe in what they think is the way to move their company forward, and it was paid off. Nintendo currently has the smallest share of the console market. But they, oddly ehough, make the largest profit percentage. Why? Because their high profile, well recieved, much loved games are cheap to develop. Nintendo gains a much larger profit return in their investments because they don't spend extravagant ammounts of money to develop them.
To say that their games are gimmicky, crappy, and cheap is igonrant. Yes, that statement maybe true now, which rehashed titles and what not. But their first generation consoles titles is usually what sets the trend for years to come. Mario 64 anyone? THAT game created the 3d action genre. The analog stick from the Nintendo 64. They realized that the only way to get precise 3d movement in a 3d game was to have an analog controller. Everyone has copied it since then. Shoulder buttons... coppied. The C-buttons for camera controls were eventually coppied. Hell even the placement of the 4 buttons on the SNES controller hasn't changed much.
Nintendo might have childish themes and great games too far in between. But you can't deny that the company has revolutionized how video games are played in numerous ways.
Not to bash Epic... they have amazing technology and good games. But Epic is nothing more than another 'id'.
But Epic is nothing more than another 'id'.
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Watch your toungue young man! Before I wash out your mouth with soap!
The amount of money thrown at game developement prevents teams to be creative.
If you were to design a GTA or FPS style game with "Next-Gen" slapped on it, I guarantee you will get money to fund your project.
You try and sell an original and interesting game to a publisher and they'll laugh at you.
Katamari is probably one of the few games in recent times that have been original. And I think THE ONLY reason why Namco Japan even funded that game was because the dev team required very little money. I think that game was created with 20 guys over a short amount of time. The game was sold for $19.99... but the popularity of the game spread so well that it warranted a sequel.
as to the topic story... man. the industry doesn't seem like a big enough pond to be splashing around in without bothering somebody you probably don't want to/shouldn't bother. being a little more reserved in comment would do probably do everyone a favor.
IMO the Dualshock is the worst controller design I ever encountered. The symmetric layout is stupid because most control layouts aren't symmetric. Most games control with one analog stick and the buttons, that means the default position of your hands is asymmetrical. The stupid design also encourages developers to use the dpad instead of the analog stick and not even allow for analog control. That wouldn't be as much of a problem if Sony's dpad wasn't a crime against mankind. The analog buttons are just as stupid, there's no way to push them in an analog way, they just encourage stupid control layouts that cause a lot of frustration (Star Ocean 3 dragon bone flute...). The analg shoulder buttons on the GC at least have enough way to allow proper analog input.
Because there is such a huge focus on design and gameplay... that actual asset creation takes a back seat. Simplified graphics is far cheaper to produce.
I can see the revolution coming out with a lot of "not-so-next-gen" looking games. But they're going to have a lot of unique gameplay. And a lot of old gameplay experienced in a totally new way with their controller.
Will it sell? You bet it will. Because word of mouth is going to spread how cool and fun their games are going to play, that it'll launch the sales of their consoles/games.
The gamecube is a wonderful system with a lot of good games on it. And a lot of good games to come. But it doesn't really offer anything new to the table. I think if Nintendo had done with the Gamecube what they're doing with the Revolution now... the console wars would be much different.
The gamecube felt like a weak attempt to gain back their hold on the video game market. In the end the PS2 simply offered FAR more options for most gamers. But what's happened is the market has become incredibly saturated with games that are similar/identical to each other that the consumer's tastes have become refined. They're starting to want something new and exciting. Rehashed games can only go so far. Consumers are also starting to become more intelligent to notice that, while the graphics are nice in their games, they're ultimately let down in how utter shit it is to play.
I don't know... I always thought the PS controller had the better design. To me, the analog placement on the left side made sense because there was no effort required to move your thump upward.
You don't find it more comfortable to have your thumbs at 45 degree angles rather than 90? That's a preference thing I guess. Some people are comfortable in what would be uncomfortable positions for others.
Like being on the giving end of a blowjob. HAH!!!!
You know I had to.
i prefer the ps2 pad over the cube pad because of the analog buttons, that should be a must have for nintendo's next controller as well. also, the shoulder buttons on the nintendo somewhat suck for me.
apart from that both controllers are fine, sony's is a bit on the fragile side. smash it against the floor and go buy a new one. not exactly made for kids, eh?
You don't find it more comfortable to have your thumbs at 45 degree angles rather than 90? That's a preference thing I guess.
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Well, maybe I hold the controller different than you, but I'd say my thumb is at a 0 degree angle when I use the left analog stick on the xbox/gc/dreamcast controllers (that is, 0 degrees in orientation to the direction in which I'm facing). If you hold your hand out in front of you (like you're going to shake someone's hand), and then relax all of your fingers, your thumb points forward, and not to the right 45 degrees. Having my thumb point forward just feels more natural than pointing it to the right.
ps/ps2 controllers are about perfect in my opinion.
only problem i have with the gamecube controller is the travel on the shoulder buttons. expecially in RE4 and the need to press L+R during cutscenes. i kept wanting to push them all the way down when a simple nudge would have worked. i couldn't tell when the buttons made the connection to having been pressed.
xbox controller (orginal, based on the handful of times i've played an xbox) was ok. seemed a little large and the placement of the black and white buttons was such that they were up so high above the regular buttons i never remembered they were there since i couldn't feel them under my thumb.
so when people start suing nintendo for carpal tunnel syndrome from repetetive movement stress/ fatigue on their wrists... yah
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They put warning lables on ALL games now... Them lawyers are smart SOB's (except Jack Thompson).
As for the Rev controller, maybe you guys don't play DDR, but being physically involved in the game is fun if it is done right. The amount of finesse the new Rev controllor will allow I suspect will make the analog buttons/stick combo seem limited in comparison, but we will just have to wait and see.
Nintendo has been sued because some sophomoric idiot (35, living with his mom, playing games all day, epileptic) died during a seizure and they were afraid that a simple notice in the manual will not suffice so they put it on the bootup screen of the DS or newer Cube games. Sometimes I think starting frivolous lawsuits should be a felony.
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That more than a little unfair KDR. He probably was living with his Mom because of his medical disorder. Without a notice the game could cause a seisure, Im sure he played. Not sure how that makes him a idiot?
Is Hawkings a idiot because he cant talk correctly and needs help to use the bathroom?