3DSMax UV Tools

SouL

I'm sorry, but they are absolute garbage. I've got use max here at work and I'm so frustrated with this fucking program.

I hate the fact that I have to add a stack JUST to edit my UVs.

I hate the fact that the wireframe is ALWAYS fucking on whenever I'm moving my points around.

I can't tell what UV points correspond with what verts on the mesh.

Whenever I use the Weld Tool I get stuck in whatever editor manip tool I'm in (ie. pan/zoom). It's fucking irritating. It makes the hotkeys I've set up completely useless. It goes back fine after I've manually selected move/rotate/scale. What gives?

Get with the program Discreet. Your UV tools suck. I come from a place where UVs were as easy as sitting my ass on the couch and turning the TV on. In Max it's like I have to build the fucking couch first before I can sit in it.

DIE DIE DIE

MoP

SouL: Really, you should just spend a couple of minutes and actually learn the software.

Go into the Advanced Options in the Unwrap window.

Check the boxes for "Show selected verts in viewport" and "Constant update in viewport". That will fix two of your major whines straight off the bat.

Try setting up the default move/rotate/scale UVW keys to QWE or WER, whatever you prefer, then it's easy to switch back in and out of weld mode - CTRL-T to target weld (or CTRL-W to weld selected) then just hit Q W or E to get back to the original tool.

Stop insulting the program and actually spend some of your oh-so-precious time to figure stuff out.

Seriously, man, this is just whining because you're lazy. Get with the program yourself!

[edit] Ooh, looks like you just did a ninja edit to remove one of the whines I just addressed. Wasn't difficult to find, was it? Admittedly, that sort of thing should be on by default, but it's really not hard to set yourself.

Also, I don't know what you're talking about the wireframe being always on? I'm pretty sure you can turn that off. What exactly are you referring to?

Wait, you actually use the little buttons for Pan/Zoom? Do you, like, click them, and then move around the interface? Try just middle-clicking and dragging around to pan, scroll wheel to zoom (Or CTRL-ALT middle-click drag to smooth zoom)... I really see no reason at all to use the Pan/Zoom buttons.

Basically, the only point from your original post that still stands is that you have to add an Unwrap UVW modifier to the stack. Oh my, such effort! Put it in the button set at the top of the modifier panel, it's a half-second clicking job. That is not difficult.

And in the spirit of the original post: I fucking HATE whiny bitches.

Daz

LOL

MoP

Yep, Daz, I actually thought it was pretty funny that someone as artistically accomplished as SouL could be so lazy and misinformed when it comes to software. The only thing I'd accept as a legitimate complaint about the current Max7 UVW editor is its lack of Maya-style Relax feature, and that can be added by using the (FREE!) UVHelp plugin script from www.microcan.nl.

It just boils down to lazy arrogance, really.

Daz

I was laughing at you pwning SouL, not at Max. Unlike some experienced 3D artists around here, I don't go out of my way to diss what 3D packages others are using. They're just a means to an end. They all do the same shit really. Me want XSI!!! ;-p

MoP

Oh yeah, exactly! That's just what I was getting at. I had to learn Maya in a week or so last summer, for work. The modelling tools lacked some features that I was used to working with all the time in Max, but I just learned to work with them and managed to get along fine.

You didn't see me running into the forums and whining like a little girl about how I couldn't bevel edges properly. Heh.

Daz

Mayas out of the box poly tools are crap. Ive never denied that. It just pisses me off when someones says 'lol, your using that shit? No use 3ds maX!11" . It doesn't really help

Daz

And SouL, I feel your pain man honestly. I hate learning new shit ( unless it's XSI!! Just got a beta at work and OMG it's a joy ) Stick with it and be patient man! In a couple of months you'll be all 'Maya was crap! What was I thinking?!'

MoP

Yeah, but I think SouL should at least make an effort to learn what he wants to do before condemning it for being crap. I don't like learning new stuff either, but I'll ask around for a way to do what I want, until I'm sure that it can't be done, before slating it for sucking. That's like saying the brakes on a car suck without even pressing the pedals.

Daz

Well, it aint just SouL. Plenty of Max users around here are fiercely loyal to it and diss all else without ever having looked at it for more than 5 minutes. But yeah, it aint the maturest of approaches!

ScoobyDoofus

I dont whine on boards & IRC, but I do frequently ask "what is the shortcut to XYZ feature" or "how do I...?" instead of "googling it" or reading the included documentation. But I don't slag other programs.

MoP

Daz: Oh absolutely, there are always people who are fiercely loyal to whatever they prefer - and they usually base their arguments (software, anyway) based on outdated versions of the program they're arguing against, or often just lack of knowledge about it in general. Which sucks, but such is life. I try not to do that too often.

Scoob has it right - ask questions, find out how to do stuff, don't slag things off (well, unless you're absolutely sure of yourself - otherwise you'll end up looking dumb).

SouL

Nah, my complaints are still valid.

Highlight selected verts don't do anything. I want my selected UV point in the UV editor window to select the corresponding Vert on the geo. I also like to hunt UV points on the mesh itself and have them show up in the UV window.
It's usefull for unwrapping overlapping sections.

The wireframe bit I'm talking about is when you select an object in Max. A wireframe immediately goes ontop of the geo. This makes fixing seems difficult because pixels get in the way. I'd like to be able to temporarily unselect the geo w/o losing it's UV data in the UV editor.
It's the equivalent of selecting an object in Maya, opening the UV editor, the shift clicking the geo wile in UV component mode.

I've also used the UV window to make selecting areas of the mesh.

I know about the middle mouse button manipulating the viewport and such. But I've bothered not to use it as I've gone through 3 different mice in the span of a week because it wouldn't work properly. Mousescroll works on/off, too.

And don't get me started on smoothing groups and the fact that I've already lost data from a crash.

I was a Max user that went to Maya when I started at EA. I remember having DaZ sit next to me and show me a few of the tool. A lot of it was pretty to understand. I got to grips with it in about a week. A lot of the stuff offered felt like a step forward.
I know my general way around Max. A lot of the stuff I used in 4 and 4.2 are still kicking around. But after having touched another bit of software, and having to use an updated version of Max.... I'm expecting more. This is VERSION 7. Why are the UV tools still so primitive? Why is the Relax function still ass? I need a plug-in for a proper working relax tool? And for some reason no one seems to know how to export the UV data onto a jpg image. Thankfully I remember having to use TexPorter with Max4. Others around here take screencaps of their UV windows. Ugh.
The same with Maya. You're at almost at version 7, Alias. FIX YOUR FUCKING ALPHA SORTING. And yeah, some Maya tools are ass. MJPoly Tools saved Maya.

Going back to Max feels like someone chopped off my legs then asked me to run a mile.

Thankfully the modeling tools are easy to grasp. If there weren't I'd probably have jumped off the building by now.

If you worked in an environment where EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT WOW ALL DAY LONG, you'd go crazy, too.

SouL

Oh and scoob... whining is the way of champions!!

And the quote of frutration for today has to be "I want to get Max pregnant, wait 5 months, then punch her in the stomach."

MoP

[ QUOTE ]
Highlight selected verts don't do anything. I want my selected UV point in the UV editor window to select the corresponding Vert on the geo. I also like to hunt UV points on the mesh itself and have them show up in the UV window.
It's usefull for unwrapping overlapping sections.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turning on Highlight Selected Verts will make the selected vertices in the UV editor highlight the same vertices in the 3d view on your actual geometry. If that's not happening, I'd guess it's an issue with your video card or drivers setup. Try changing to Direct3D rendering if you're not already on it.
Unfortunately you can't select verts in the viewport and carry across the selection to the UV window, and yeah, that's ass, but you can select faces in the viewport and it'll select the same ones in the UV window. Not quite as good, but it's better than nothing.

[ QUOTE ]
The wireframe bit I'm talking about is when you select an object in Max. A wireframe immediately goes ontop of the geo.

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Er... no it doesn't. Not by default, anyway. You can change those settings in the right-click menu in the top left of the viewport. Turn off Show Selected with Edged Faces, if it's on (I have this bound to F5, since it's handy to use sometimes). Otherwise, I don't know what the hell you're doing to make it do that.

[ QUOTE ]
I know about the middle mouse button manipulating the viewport and such. But I've bothered not to use it as I've gone through 3 different mice in the span of a week because it wouldn't work properly. Mousescroll works on/off, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a Max issue. It's most likely your mouse or drivers. In 4 years of using various versions of Max, the middle mouse and scroll wheel has always worked for me, so it's not Max's problem.

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And don't get me started on smoothing groups and the fact that I've already lost data from a crash.

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Yes, smoothing groups are ass-tastic. I really wish they'd bring in a Hard/Soft edge feature like Maya, that's so much better and more sensible.
If you've lost data from a crash, I'd recommend turning your Autoback settings to save about 5 different files, at about 3 minute intervals. This means that no matter how bad the crash, you're never gonna lose more than 3 minutes' work unless your whole hard drive dies.

[ QUOTE ]
And for some reason no one seems to know how to export the UV data onto a jpg image. Thankfully I remember having to use TexPorter with Max4. Others around here take screencaps of their UV windows. Ugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get Chuggnut's UV tools, it contains this tool and many vital others. www.chuggnut.com . Yes, I agree it's bloody stupid not to have a standard UV-exporting feature, but it's an easy fix with that plugin.

Hope that helps a bit. It really isn't as bad as you're making out!

ScoobyDoofus

[ QUOTE ]
The wireframe bit I'm talking about is when you select an object in Max. A wireframe immediately goes ontop of the geo. This makes fixing seems difficult because pixels get in the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uncheck: Customize/Viewport Configuration/display selected with edged faces
[ QUOTE ]

And for some reason no one seems to know how to export the UV data onto a jpg image. Thankfully I remember having to use TexPorter with Max4. Others around here take screencaps of their UV windows. Ugh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, thats a real bitch. I use either textporter or PSDPath 2 unwrap...or both. Which is teh awesome. I would really suggest downloading the RPMtools suite just for that.
Vector, rez-independant UV export? awesome.

EDIT: Damn you MoP! Beat me to it...

Eric Chadwick

No doubt about it, learning new software when you don't have the time for it is a pain in the ass, slow going and frustrating. I can't help you with blind office evangelism, but maybe some tips will help.


Highlight verts... Unwrap UVW modifier has to be in Sub-Object mode (yellow) or they won't show. After you turn on Show Selected Verts chkbx, make sure to hit Options > Save Current Settings As Default, or it'll turn off next time you open the Edit window.

Wireframe overlay... F4 toggles overlay when viewport is shaded (F3). Also I like to turn off selection brackets (the goofy white bbox-corners around selected meshes): go to Customize > Viewport Config > uncheck "Use Selection Brackets." There's also the UV seam overlay, in the Unwrap mod's Params rollout > Show No Seams. And there's the Edged Faces thing too.

Crashes... autobackup works OK most of the time. But I have to turn it off when working on big files, or working with particles... too much of an interruption. Then I forget to turn it back on and WHAM! I lose some work.

Yeah, middle mouse is flaky. Depends on the mouse though, there's a new MS one in the office here that really sucks, tons of middle-button lag. I can't use that thing. Got an Alienware one that works OK though, no complaints.

Relax Tool... fixed in v8 I think, stoopid they took this long. There is that freebie script, but it's nothing next to Deep UV's excellent Relax, I still use that instead.

Exporting a JPG... yeah I agree with Scooby, best way bar none is PSDPathUnwrapper (see sticky). Very very helpful, if you work in Photoshop that is.

You installed MJPolyTools right? Why not install a couple for Max...

Rhinokey

yeah a lot of these will be fixed when 8 comes out next month, the unwrap in 8 is awesome, and it has built in texporter, and a good bit of other improvements, one of the guys who started work here and used maya before, was constantly dissing max, but even he agreed that max 8's uv tools beat maya, i rember when i had to use maya for about a month while working on sims 2, i hated it so much i was swearing at it constantly, but deep down i know it was not me hating maya, but me hating having to use something i was not comfortable with

arshlevon

deep down you hate everything mojokey.. thats okay.. so do i..

Rick Stirling

...and you've still not told me how to bind the same move keys in the uv editor as the ones in the normal viewport.

Eric Chadwick

What move keys are you talking about?

Have you tried the Keyboard Shortcut Override Toggle doohickey?

MoP

Rick: Go to Customize User Interface.
Look in Keyboard tab.
Select "Unwrap UVW" from the Group drop-down.
Look for "Texture Vertex Move Mode" etc... they're all there.

ElysiumGX

It doesn't matter if you hate Max. You learn how to deal with it. There is no choice. Nothing else. None. And comparing it to tools with better features released long before it only labels you as a sissy crybaby whinner. It's all about the pipeline. For christ sakes, do it for the pipeline, or we're all doomed!

MoP

ElysiumGX, that's exactly what it's all about. The pipeline. If the pipeline includes Max, Max is what you're using. If the pipeline includes Maya, Maya is what you're using. If the pipeline includes XSI, XSI is what you're using. It doesn't matter what is better/worse than other apps in a working environment. You learn to deal with it. Now shut up, please, I don't need or want your brand of sarcasm or whatever the hell that is in this thread.

Locked before it turns into an app war. If SouL or anyone else still needs help with any program's UV-mapping tools, please feel free to start a new thread.