There are alot've conflictying points of view in the thread, I figured I'd edit my post after reading it all.
Every successful applicant has done 1 thing right:
They have addressed a 'need' of the studio they are applying to and appeared to be able to fill that need.
If you want to close the gap quickly between seeking a games art gig and landing one you have a few things you can address that can help you:
-if you want to target a studio, then you can't be as picky about what you want to do. I mean you 'could' but it would increase your chances of working there if you used a different apprach.
-if you want to target a task, like FX for example, then specialize and 'don't' be so attached to a particular company or region.
These are the two things that escaped me of a long ass time and caused me alot've heartache.
oh, one last thing....
Dhabih Eng told me when I was in college to be really good at one thing and then try and break-in. I eventually did that and broke in. Staying in meant evolving. I've figured that one out now....finnally
Good advice all around ..im book marking this thread . So Pak do you think if I became a really good texture artist and then broke in that I would find that I would need to also be a good 3D artist to stay in ? You said yourself that you had to evolve but what if you just want to do textures or just animate is your Art Director gonna look for a reason to can yah ?
Edit** ROR how would someone go about messing with the UE3 tech it's not released in any form yet has it? Or are you only talking to pros who's studio have purchased then tech ??
Pogo: I mean start using the UT2k4 engine right now and get some heads up time in preparation for UT7. My underlying point was that the Unreal Engine is becoming the windows of game development, more people are buying it than anything else so there will be a lot of jobs for people who can use it for the next decade I would presume.
With the Unreal design tools I learn what I need to so things work like I want but I don't enjoy it. I think most mod guys might agree. The ones that don't, started out with UnrealEd as their first 3D app and don't mind it because they forced them selves to learn it over many months/years. Everyone who plays FPS's knows the WASD controls, why not tap into that and expand the usablity of the UE?
[pointless rant/highjack]
Hopefully they will add different camera controls to UnrealEd. That is the single thing that keeps me from using the lvl editor and enjoying it. I've tried many times over the years ever since Unreal came out to get used to the camera controls in UnreaEd but it never feels right and I can't get the camera into places I need it to be. Well the keyboard shortcuts are annoying also. They require either large hands or one hand to come off the mouse not really a shortcut then is it?
Autodesk/Discreet even added the WASD/mouse look to Max in the form of "walk thru mode", which I have bound to shift-c. Keep the old control system but make a walk thru mode control system also be accessible. IF they had added this to UnrealEd early on I believe it would have strengthened the Unreal Mod community back in the day when it was HL and Unreal going neck and neck. They could have stole almost the entire HL mod community with one simple set of alt camera controls.
I'm sure HL lvl editing was/is as popular as it is because of the simple camera controls. They need to go along way in making UnrealEd's UI user/artist friendly but so far all we get is "tough learn to deal with it, Cliffy B did".
[/pointless rant/highjack]
Vig: UE3 has a maya camera control option, i expect the max version will be on the way and EVERYTHING has had a major overhaul since the last one thats based on artist feedback.
I don't know what your cliffy b segment is about, everything is tough to learn and should be dealt with if one expects to find employment doing it.
I couldn't figure out max's camera controls initially because i was used to an inhouse level editor's controls, i find Zbrush's interface awkward still atm but I'm dealing with that.
I'm not sure how much you use max but this MIGHT help.
If you still find the Max camera wonky to use open a blank file place a "free camera" and set the perspecitive view port to "camera01". Hide the camera, then under customize/customize User Interface scroll to the near bottom and bind "walk thru mode" to an shortcut (I use shift-c). If you need to adjust the speed of the camera use [ & ].
Save the file in .../scenes/ as maxstart.max. Now every file you start has the camera set up. You can still use the default camera controls, but when you need walk thru mode its there. Right click to exit. Exiting walk thru mode does not cancle what you are doing.
Walk thru mode is exactly like no clip or ghost mode in first person shooter games (and other editors). I have found it pretty handy when I need to get into some tight spots or even view a model from the inside out. Not to mention doing lvl design in Max.
Numpad 5 is the default but I like most of my short cuts to be a left handed operations, so I'm not pulling my hand off the mouse just to tweak the camera. Also C is to switch to Camera, so having Shift-C as walk thru camera mode is much easier/logical for me to remember than numpad 5... I have no love for the right side of my key board =P
I have to say Wickchad sucks as far as porn names go.
Vig, somehow I can't believe mod popularity all boils down to a single GUI issue. User feedback is good, it helps improve tools, so keep on feeding back.
But I'd never let a gui that's personally uncomfortable prevent me from delivering the goods. Like Chris said earlier, if all I have is Notepad and Photoshop, so be it, I'm not gonna let that stop me.
As for specialization vs. jack-of-all, the latter has worked well for me, seeing as I've been working only in smaller companies, and usually in a leader role where you have to know a little (or a lot) of everything.
But my case isn't all that helpful for those hoping to get in these days.
It's not one but a few unfriendly issues that keep me from enjoying UnrealEd. UnrealEd's UI was created with CAD ppl in mind, but the biggest user base is players who already know one set of controls, WASD. I'll use what I have to so I get the job done, but that doesn't mean I am going to enjoy it or it won't take me longer to do what I need. The greater the differances between programs, the greater the learning curve and artist down time.
Newblet picks up game A and decides to play with the editor, he finds it hard but slogs thru and makes some stuff. He later finds games B-F that look almost the same but have easier UI's. How much shelf time is editor A going to get?
The differance between being forced to work unnaturally until it is comfortable, and being able to work comfortably from the start, is HUGE.
I've been using UnrealEd and a just about any other editor I can get my hands on since 1997. Some I enjoy using, some I use because it is the only thing that lets me do what I need to. They all have thier pro's and con's and I am excited to hear that UnrealEd might be getting some user friendly upgrades. Who knows maybe I will enjoy using it instead of just gritting my teeth and pushing through as if the only tools I had where notepad and photoshop.
Useablity won't keep me from using a program, and it won't keep me from making suggestions or gripping about it.
Has anyone been keeping score? who's winning, generalist or specialists?
As for the camera it all depends on the type of work you are doing Ued's is perfect for what Ued does, environments.
The shortcuts are useless. Is there any way to edit them?
Ror you read all the great comics, Planetary, Watchmen, Cerebus. What else is on your comic reading list we should know about? Preferably something I haven't read =P
Lucifer? Mike Carey, yet another talented brit making it big in the american market.
It's the only spin off from the Sandman series that's worth reading, he's also gone on to take the reins on Hellblazer now that Ennis has left it and its shaping up to be the best its been under his control for the last few years.
Mike Carey really is a name to watch these days.
I really just follow a handful of brits that all started out in 2000AD, quit when unhappy with being conned in the UK and then ended up dominating the US scene.
I think Warren Ellis is the new Alan Moore, Mike Carey is the new Neil Gaimian and considering Moore wants to focus on being a druid and Gaimian seems to be trying to focus more on cinema along with Dave Mackean.
Also, its worth checking out anything Grant Morrison does, The invisibles, The Filth... Animal Man,Marvel Boy, JLA, Doom Patrol, Xmen... another crazy scot.
I prefer his darker stuff like the Invisibles and the Filth which are I guess, like taking acid and uppers then switching to downers, in his words not mine. I just enjoy the darker , deeper material though once it starts grinding the axe too much like Cerebus did in the end , I want out!
Actually, just to show off, a couple of older ones you might have missed -
The Foolkiller by Steve Gerber, it was a 10 issues limited run though possible available to pick up as a collected edition now. He also did a cool 2 parter called The Legion of the Night with Whilce Portaciao just as Whilce was making more of a name for himself and soon to helm Xfactors art duties.
Gerber seems an odd writer to me in that he used to writer Howard the Duck whilst Foolkiller is a pretty deep social commentary on America and Legion of the night is an airy mythological horror story so ... , well I don't know, the guy either has range or he's just flighty!
Concrete was another oddity, limited run, collected edition available now though usually it costs.
Gaimian's Black Orchid and Mr Punch seem to be earlier works of his that few have read despite them being amoung his best stuff imo.
If you want a laugh, track down Alan Moore and Alan Davis collaboration on D.R and Quinch
'My names Ernie Quinch, college student.I like guns and starting fights.
My psychiatrist says I'm a psychotic deviant.
But that doesn't mean I'm a bad person right?'
It's 2000ad , but collected editions should be on Amazon now that rebellion own them.
I actually found the Unreal Editor in UT2K3 really easy to use. With help from 3dbuzz.com I was able to pick it up really quickly, especially the particle tools. In fact, I was amazed at poor the in-house tools were at the game developer I got a job at after using UE for a while. The only drawback I can see with learning UE is that you're likely to get spoiled by easy and powerful it is.
Replies
Every successful applicant has done 1 thing right:
They have addressed a 'need' of the studio they are applying to and appeared to be able to fill that need.
If you want to close the gap quickly between seeking a games art gig and landing one you have a few things you can address that can help you:
-if you want to target a studio, then you can't be as picky about what you want to do. I mean you 'could' but it would increase your chances of working there if you used a different apprach.
-if you want to target a task, like FX for example, then specialize and 'don't' be so attached to a particular company or region.
These are the two things that escaped me of a long ass time and caused me alot've heartache.
oh, one last thing....
Dhabih Eng told me when I was in college to be really good at one thing and then try and break-in. I eventually did that and broke in. Staying in meant evolving. I've figured that one out now....finnally
-R
Edit** ROR how would someone go about messing with the UE3 tech it's not released in any form yet has it? Or are you only talking to pros who's studio have purchased then tech ??
r.
[pointless rant/highjack]
Hopefully they will add different camera controls to UnrealEd. That is the single thing that keeps me from using the lvl editor and enjoying it. I've tried many times over the years ever since Unreal came out to get used to the camera controls in UnreaEd but it never feels right and I can't get the camera into places I need it to be. Well the keyboard shortcuts are annoying also. They require either large hands or one hand to come off the mouse not really a shortcut then is it?
Autodesk/Discreet even added the WASD/mouse look to Max in the form of "walk thru mode", which I have bound to shift-c. Keep the old control system but make a walk thru mode control system also be accessible. IF they had added this to UnrealEd early on I believe it would have strengthened the Unreal Mod community back in the day when it was HL and Unreal going neck and neck. They could have stole almost the entire HL mod community with one simple set of alt camera controls.
I'm sure HL lvl editing was/is as popular as it is because of the simple camera controls. They need to go along way in making UnrealEd's UI user/artist friendly but so far all we get is "tough learn to deal with it, Cliffy B did".
[/pointless rant/highjack]
I don't know what your cliffy b segment is about, everything is tough to learn and should be dealt with if one expects to find employment doing it.
I couldn't figure out max's camera controls initially because i was used to an inhouse level editor's controls, i find Zbrush's interface awkward still atm but I'm dealing with that.
r.
I'm not sure how much you use max but this MIGHT help.
If you still find the Max camera wonky to use open a blank file place a "free camera" and set the perspecitive view port to "camera01". Hide the camera, then under customize/customize User Interface scroll to the near bottom and bind "walk thru mode" to an shortcut (I use shift-c). If you need to adjust the speed of the camera use [ & ].
Save the file in .../scenes/ as maxstart.max. Now every file you start has the camera set up. You can still use the default camera controls, but when you need walk thru mode its there. Right click to exit. Exiting walk thru mode does not cancle what you are doing.
Walk thru mode is exactly like no clip or ghost mode in first person shooter games (and other editors). I have found it pretty handy when I need to get into some tight spots or even view a model from the inside out. Not to mention doing lvl design in Max.
That's good info, John. Mr Kevinstone, I mean...
r.
Vig, somehow I can't believe mod popularity all boils down to a single GUI issue. User feedback is good, it helps improve tools, so keep on feeding back.
But I'd never let a gui that's personally uncomfortable prevent me from delivering the goods. Like Chris said earlier, if all I have is Notepad and Photoshop, so be it, I'm not gonna let that stop me.
As for specialization vs. jack-of-all, the latter has worked well for me, seeing as I've been working only in smaller companies, and usually in a leader role where you have to know a little (or a lot) of everything.
But my case isn't all that helpful for those hoping to get in these days.
Newblet picks up game A and decides to play with the editor, he finds it hard but slogs thru and makes some stuff. He later finds games B-F that look almost the same but have easier UI's. How much shelf time is editor A going to get?
The differance between being forced to work unnaturally until it is comfortable, and being able to work comfortably from the start, is HUGE.
I've been using UnrealEd and a just about any other editor I can get my hands on since 1997. Some I enjoy using, some I use because it is the only thing that lets me do what I need to. They all have thier pro's and con's and I am excited to hear that UnrealEd might be getting some user friendly upgrades. Who knows maybe I will enjoy using it instead of just gritting my teeth and pushing through as if the only tools I had where notepad and photoshop.
Useablity won't keep me from using a program, and it won't keep me from making suggestions or gripping about it.
Rosemont sounds like a butler.
Has anyone been keeping score? who's winning, generalist or specialists?
As for the camera it all depends on the type of work you are doing Ued's is perfect for what Ued does, environments.
The shortcuts are useless. Is there any way to edit them?
r.
It's the only spin off from the Sandman series that's worth reading, he's also gone on to take the reins on Hellblazer now that Ennis has left it and its shaping up to be the best its been under his control for the last few years.
Mike Carey really is a name to watch these days.
I really just follow a handful of brits that all started out in 2000AD, quit when unhappy with being conned in the UK and then ended up dominating the US scene.
I think Warren Ellis is the new Alan Moore, Mike Carey is the new Neil Gaimian and considering Moore wants to focus on being a druid and Gaimian seems to be trying to focus more on cinema along with Dave Mackean.
Also, its worth checking out anything Grant Morrison does, The invisibles, The Filth... Animal Man,Marvel Boy, JLA, Doom Patrol, Xmen... another crazy scot.
I prefer his darker stuff like the Invisibles and the Filth which are I guess, like taking acid and uppers then switching to downers, in his words not mine. I just enjoy the darker , deeper material though once it starts grinding the axe too much like Cerebus did in the end , I want out!
r.
The Foolkiller by Steve Gerber, it was a 10 issues limited run though possible available to pick up as a collected edition now. He also did a cool 2 parter called The Legion of the Night with Whilce Portaciao just as Whilce was making more of a name for himself and soon to helm Xfactors art duties.
Gerber seems an odd writer to me in that he used to writer Howard the Duck whilst Foolkiller is a pretty deep social commentary on America and Legion of the night is an airy mythological horror story so ... , well I don't know, the guy either has range or he's just flighty!
Concrete was another oddity, limited run, collected edition available now though usually it costs.
Gaimian's Black Orchid and Mr Punch seem to be earlier works of his that few have read despite them being amoung his best stuff imo.
If you want a laugh, track down Alan Moore and Alan Davis collaboration on D.R and Quinch
'My names Ernie Quinch, college student.I like guns and starting fights.
My psychiatrist says I'm a psychotic deviant.
But that doesn't mean I'm a bad person right?'
It's 2000ad , but collected editions should be on Amazon now that rebellion own them.
r.
r.